[3.5] Maximizing Precision Damage

[EnnPeeCee]

I've been wanting to play, or at least build, a Thri-Kreen multiweapon fighter. Why? I like throwing those handfuls of dice. So here's what I have so far:

Thri-Kreen HD 2 / Barbarian (Lion Totem) 1 / Scout 3 / Rogue 14
Taking Swift Ambusher, Improved Skirmish, Multiweapon Fighting, probably Craven
Weapons would probably be those Thri-Kreen double weapons, with elemental enchants for more d6s.
Also, could replace rogue levels with SA fighter levels, given DM permission to use swift ambusher with it.
Would have those wands that let you sneak attack undead, etc.
This should come out to Skirmish +5d6, Imp. Skirmish +2d6, Sneak Attack +7d6, and weapon damage.

So, anything else I can do to get more dice? Anything else I should be looking at?

Things my group doesn't use (ok to suggest, but I will avoid using)
ToB, Psionics, Incarnum, most templates

[Grumman]

The Craven feat, for +20 Sneak Attack damage.
The Telling Blow feat, for more opportunities to do your extra damage.

Rogue's Belt for +1d6 damage.
Assassination and Deadly Precision on all your weapons for an additional +2d6 damage.

[SurlySeraph]

Sneak Attack Feats and Boosts.

[EnnPeeCee]

The Craven feat, for +20 Sneak Attack damage.
The Telling Blow feat, for more opportunities to do your extra damage.

Rogue's Belt for +1d6 damage.
Assassination and Deadly Precision on all your weapons for an additional +2d6 damage.

Is Telling Blow worth it? I know it gives more chances to do SA damage, but it seems like it would be better to just have someone to flank with or something, instead of burning a feat on a small chance to apply the damage.

Ah, I knew there were more enchanted things out there that I had forgotten about. Moooore dice...


EDIT:

Sneak Attack Feats and Boosts.

Not sure if I'll have enough feats for extra sneak things, but I'll definately take a look. Thanks.




So, I was thinking, would it be better to go DEX or STR based?

[Douglas]

You need a way to both move and full attack in the same round. Travel Devotion from Complete Champion works, but you'll need Turn Undead to use it in more than one encounter per day.

[PhoenixRivers]

You need a way to both move and full attack in the same round. Travel Devotion from Complete Champion works, but you'll need Turn Undead to use it in more than one encounter per day.

Belt of Battle gives you 3 rounds of it. 1 round is sufficient for many fights. Between that and travel devotion, you can have a healthy amount.

Believe MIC also has a set of boots that lets you take a move action 2x per day.

[EnnPeeCee]

You need a way to both move and full attack in the same round. Travel Devotion from Complete Champion works, but you'll need Turn Undead to use it in more than one encounter per day.

That's what the Lion Totem Barbarian is there for, the Pounce ability. Thanks though.


Edit:
I was wondering if the skirmish is worth trying to keep in there. It adds a nice bit of damage, but has the side effect of restricting the use of PrCs.

[EnnPeeCee]

Trying to fit skirmish damage, sneak attack damage, penetrating strike, and a BAB of 16 or more is proving to be difficult. I suppose I could do without penetrating strike, but I'd then have to rely on the wands to fight immune things.

[Noble Savant]

Trying to fit skirmish damage, sneak attack damage, penetrating strike, and a BAB of 16 or more is proving to be difficult. I suppose I could do without penetrating strike, but I'd then have to rely on the wands to fight immune things.

Or weapon crystals. Those work just as well as any feat, if not better. You've got enough cash for them at level 20.

You've got a metric ton of attacks, so Strength focus, (maybe even improved critical and keen), would add up quite nicely. But that's just me.

[jokey665]

The character I'm about to be playing has +15d6+20 sneak attack at level 20 including persistent hunter's eye, not including anything I might get from gear. If I can get something to up my CL by 1 then it will be +16d6+20.

Rog1/Wiz5/UnseenSeer10/ArcaneTrickster3/Swordsage1, not quite in that order.

[Grumman]

If I can get something to up my CL by 1 then it will be +16d6+20.

Rog1/Wiz5/UnseenSeer10/ArcaneTrickster3/Swordsage1, not quite in that order.

How about replacing Rogue with Spellthief, and taking the Master Spellthief feat? Plus, you know, you get to burn their spells as you do it.

[jokey665]

How about replacing Rogue with Spellthief, and taking the Master Spellthief feat? Plus, you know, you get to burn their spells as you do it.

I'm already starved for feats as it is with this build, and that's including two I get from flaws. And I need trapfinding a lot. The original build did include a level of spellthief and master spellthief, but I've since dropped it.

[Person_Man]

I would suggest that you not use Thri-Kreen, as the cost/benefit ratio really isn't worth it. There are many more efficient ways to get extra attacks.

There are also many different ways to get Pounce or Free Movement besides a Barbarian dip. For example, a Swordsage gets easy access to Pouncing Charge and Sudden Leap (and can get 2d6 Sneak Attack from Assassin's stance).

More importantly though, you don't need to make a melee attack every turn. You just need to be within 30 ft of your enemy, and they need to be denied their Dex bonus. Again, there are many ways to do this.

For example:

Variant Kobold Rogue 1/Totemist 2/Rogue 2-16/Swordsage 2

Feats:
Dragonfire Strike: Turns your Sneak Attack damage into energy damage, bypassing Precision Damage immunity, assuming your DM is nice about it (some argue that you must first deal the Sneak Attack damage before it becomes energy damage). Also adds +1d6 damage, which is nifty.
Craven: Adds class level to Sneak Attack damage.
Open Least Chakra: Opens Hands Chakra.
Open Least Chakra: Opens Arm Chakra.
Dragon Tail feat: Adds tail attack.

Buy a Fanged Ring for Improved Unarmed Strike, which don't interfere with natural attacks.

Soulmelds:
Girallon Arms (bound to arms): Rend damage (2 * claw damage) whenever 2 or more claws hit.
Lamia Belt: (bound to Totem): 2 claws located on your "lower half" (not your base arms).
Sphinx Claws (bound to hands): Pounce with natural weapons.

So that's 9 attacks plus Rend plus Pounce plus 11d6 + 20 Sneak Attack damage, and I haven't even bothered to look into serious equipment or grafts (for tongue, slam, wing buffet, gore, etc).

[Flickerdart]

Remember, you can also take stuff like Spellthief 1/Psychic Rogue 1/SA Fighter 1 instead of Rogue 3, and end up with more SA that way. Anything that grants SA at 1st level is good for this.

[faceroll]

It's technically possible to take three levels in swashbuckler and the daring outlaw feat and have the SA of a 3rd level rogue without taking any rogue levels.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

53d6+20 per hit is my brute-force max

[Nate the Snake]

It's technically possible to take three levels in swashbuckler and the daring outlaw feat and have the SA of a 3rd level rogue without taking any rogue levels.

Only if you already have sneak attack from other non-rogue levels. Daring Outlaw requires sneak attack +2d6.

[Foryn Gilnith]

Only if you already have sneak attack from other non-rogue levels.

You say that like it's not pathetically trivial.

[Koury]

Also, I feel the need to point out Lion Totem does not grant pounce.

Spirit Lion Totem does, however.

[EnnPeeCee]

I did work out the build a little more to be RHD2 / Barb 1 / Scout 3 / Rogue 3 / SA Fighter 11 so far.
This drops the skirmish damage to 3d6, but gives a +18BAB and allows for penetrating strike.

I would suggest that you not use Thri-Kreen, as the cost/benefit ratio really isn't worth it. There are many more efficient ways to get extra attacks.

There are also many different ways to get Pounce or Free Movement besides a Barbarian dip. For example, a Swordsage gets easy access to Pouncing Charge and Sudden Leap (and can get 2d6 Sneak Attack from Assassin's stance).

More importantly though, you don't need to make a melee attack every turn. You just need to be within 30 ft of your enemy, and they need to be denied their Dex bonus. Again, there are many ways to do this.

For example:

Variant Kobold Rogue 1/Totemist 2/Rogue 2-16/Swordsage 2

Feats:
Dragonfire Strike: Turns your Sneak Attack damage into energy damage, bypassing Precision Damage immunity, assuming your DM is nice about it (some argue that you must first deal the Sneak Attack damage before it becomes energy damage). Also adds +1d6 damage, which is nifty.
Craven: Adds class level to Sneak Attack damage.
Open Least Chakra: Opens Hands Chakra.
Open Least Chakra: Opens Arm Chakra.
Dragon Tail feat: Adds tail attack.

Buy a Fanged Ring for Improved Unarmed Strike, which don't interfere with natural attacks.

Soulmelds:
Girallon Arms (bound to arms): Rend damage (2 * claw damage) whenever 2 or more claws hit.
Lamia Belt: (bound to Totem): 2 claws located on your "lower half" (not your base arms).
Sphinx Claws (bound to hands): Pounce with natural weapons.

So that's 9 attacks plus Rend plus Pounce plus 11d6 + 20 Sneak Attack damage, and I haven't even bothered to look into serious equipment or grafts (for tongue, slam, wing buffet, gore, etc).

While that all is good stuff, it relies a lot on Incarnum and ToB, which my group does not use. Also, while the Thri does take 2RHD, it does eventually get to 17 13 attacks with all the multiweapon fighting feats. So in the end, I think it comes out to more damage (presuming they hit). Also, I have my heart set on them. Thank you for the suggestions though, you always deliver.

Remember, you can also take stuff like Spellthief 1/Psychic Rogue 1/SA Fighter 1 instead of Rogue 3, and end up with more SA that way. Anything that grants SA at 1st level is good for this.

That does seem like a good idea, however, I can see that hurting BAB. I'll definitely look through them though.

53d6+20 per hit is my brute-force max

Share?

[Irreverent Fool]

The Craven feat, for +20 Sneak Attack damage.
The Telling Blow feat, for more opportunities to do your extra damage.

Rogue's Belt for +1d6 damage.
Assassination and Deadly Precision on all your weapons for an additional +2d6 damage.

Or just frost/flaming for the same bonus without restrictions.

obnoxious
sig

[EnnPeeCee]

Or just frost/flaming for the same bonus without restrictions.

obnoxious
sig

Or just use all of them for even more dice



Edit:

Also, I feel the need to point out Lion Totem does not grant pounce.

Spirit Lion Totem does, however.

Right right, that's what I meant.

[Flickerdart]

That does seem like a good idea, however, I can see that hurting BAB. I'll definitely look through them though.

Dip Pyrokineticist along the way for the Fire Lash. 15 feet reach, touch attack, infinity times per day. Want to dual-wield? You can make as many as you have hands.

[PhoenixRivers]

Or just frost/flaming for the same bonus without restrictions.

obnoxious
sig

Other than anything with energy resistance laughing at you?

[EnnPeeCee]

Dip Pyrokineticist along the way for the Fire Lash. 15 feet reach, touch attack, infinity times per day. Want to dual-wield? You can make as many as you have hands.

That sounds cool, but unfortunately I probably wont be able to use psionics. I'm also looking for more of a walking blender guy.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

Share?

Its in my build compendium. Warning: I believe everything there is, at least under certain interpretations, logical. But that doesn't mean its pretty. Its mostly about pushing boundaries.