Challenge Rating

[Forever Curious]

My friend's planning on running a campaign featuring the 2 hero PCs facing off against 4 villainous PCs. If the heroes are level 8, what level should the villains be to be equal?

[dsmiles]

Probably 4-6, depending on what classes the hero PC's are and what classes the villainous PC are.

[Yzzyx]

My friend's planning on running a campaign featuring the 2 hero PCs facing off against 4 villainous PCs. If the heroes are level 8, what level should the villains be to be equal?

Doubling the number of creatures increases the CR by two, I believe. So two CR 8 PCs are EL 10, as are four CR 6 PCs. Of course, that involves trusting the CR system of the DMG.

[Douglas]

According to the official math of the CR system, 4 level 6 characters should be an even match for 2 level 8 characters. This may or may not be accurate, depending on how optimized each of the characters is.

[sonofzeal]

By "a match for", read: "good odds they will not win and your campaign ends right there."

As others have said, two level eights are roughly equivalent to four level sixes. This doesn't mean you should throw four level six enemies at them. It means you should treat them like they were a full party of ECL 6, and be throwing CR 5-8 encounters at them. Four level six enemies would be a CR 10 encounter, which falls under "Overpowering" by the DMG standards. This is a helpful tool when working these things out.




....also note that some things are significantly over- or under-CR'd, and that the gap becomes bigger when the team is understaffed. NPC Humanoid Fighters tend to just die regardless of their theoretical CR, while several monsters (That Damn Crab, anyone?) can be functionally far more dangerous than their CR suggests.

[Foryn Gilnith]

They're all PCs. Planning for one side to be weaker is a poor idea.

Planning this in the first place is a bad idea, but eh.

[Evard]

Also don't forget... humans can be tricky therefor just cause a villain PC is lvl 5 and the PC is level 10 doesn't automatically mean the lvl 10 will win. I'm guessing the VPC's will be able to trap the PC's ad will have some sort of advantage?

I've seen a PvP fight where a lvl 5 monk took out a lvl 9 fighter (no magic items but they had masterwork weapons) mainly because the person with the monk used more things to his advantage (skills, feats, landscape) than the lvl 9 fighter.

[Myou]

....also note that some things are significantly over- or under-CR'd, and that the gap becomes bigger when the team is understaffed. NPC Humanoid Fighters tend to just die regardless of their theoretical CR, while several monsters (That Damn Crab, anyone?) can be functionally far more dangerous than their CR suggests.

Where was that damn crab? I seem to remember it having a page on WotC.

[Eldariel]

Where was that damn crab? I seem to remember it having a page on WotC.

Right here.

[2xMachina]

Or let the heroes control 2 each.

4 vs 4 is fair.

[Evard]

If you are going to set PC vs PC then you should switch your system over to 4e. The system is more well rounded and setting the game will be much easier. Just make everyone the same level but different classes and things should be fine... maybe :3 some things may need the kinks fixed lol

[V for Victory]

As the friend in question I thank you for your help. i am going with four level 6 characters, the campaign in question is in my sig if you are interested

I considered 4e but the last time I offered to run a 4e campaign people were jerks to me because I said "core only" so no more, not for a while at least.