can wraith-strike be persisted?

[AustontheGreat1]

can it? it has a duration. so i think you can, but that just seems a little powerful don't it?

[Tanaric]

Yes, it can.

And yes, it is powerful.

[Yuki Akuma]

Yes. It also takes up an eighth-level spell slot (barring metamagic reducers), so it had better be powerful.

[Penitent]

As opposed to all those other persisted spells that aren't too powerful?

[Darrin]

You can also persist Flame Blade, Flame Dagger, or Scimitar of Sand.

Then add Energy Substitution, Born of Three Thunders, and Lyric Thaumaturge's Sonic Might. You're dazed for one round, then all day touch-attacks, 1d6+CL + (1d6 * spell level) sonic/electrical damage with a save vs prone + save vs. stun.

[faceroll]

You can also persist iceaxes, which have the advantage of going away when you're doing other stuff with your hands.

[olentu]

You can also persist Flame Blade, Flame Dagger, or Scimitar of Sand.

Then add Energy Substitution, Born of Three Thunders, and Lyric Thaumaturge's Sonic Might. You're dazed for one round, then all day touch-attacks, 1d6+CL + (1d6 * spell level) sonic/electrical damage with a save vs prone + save vs. stun.

I recall that the feat only makes the spell conclude with a clap of thunder that stuns and knocks prone though I may be remembering it incorrectly.

[Darrin]

I recall that the feat only makes the spell conclude with a clap of thunder that stuns and knocks prone though I may be remembering it incorrectly.

The Fort saves (with DCs too laughably low to really even mention it) isn't really the point. BTT is to get the [sonic] tag so 1d6 sonic damage per spell level kicks in.

Now if you could just cast about 20 of those, and get them to all attack at once... hmm... maybe a tako/anthro octopus with a couple dozen persisted Girallon's Blessing...

[Person_Man]

As everyone else has already told you, yes, it can be done. But I would argue from a metagame perspective that it's best NOT to use touch attacks in such a fashion on a regular basis. It just forces your DM to raise the Touch AC of your enemies to a ridiculous level. Instead, just keep Wraithstrike in your pocket for when you really need it.

[Otodetu]

Ask your dm if such a thing is ok in his world, as if you can so can every npc...

[Runestar]

Ask your dm if such a thing is ok in his world, as if you can so can every npc...

I would like to see how the DM justifies the non-caster PCs accessing wraithstrike, let alone persistent wraithstrike, considering you can't cast it on others.

Dragons would be a formidable foe with such a spell though, as is any creature with 4 lvs in sorc.

[JaronK]

Wraith Strike is a nasty spell to persist, but it's also hard to persist (pretty much requires Anima Mage, Illumins, or a DMM Persistent Archivist). There are lots of other good spells to persist too out there... Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Divine Power, Shapechange, and so on. Persistent spell with abilities that ignore usual metamagic costs is just a serious powerful ability.

JaronK

[herrhauptmann]

I would like to see how the DM justifies the non-caster PCs accessing wraithstrike, let alone persistent wraithstrike, considering you can't cast it on others.

Dragons would be a formidable foe with such a spell though, as is any creature with 4 lvs in sorc.

Custom Wondrous item that casts 'Persisted wraithstrike' on the user 1/day?
(15 CL* 8 Spell level * thousands of gp)/5 = total cost
Pretty sure that's the formula.

[Curmudgeon]

Custom Wondrous item that casts 'Persisted wraithstrike' on the user

That would be exactly the thing a reasonable DM would consider unreasonable.

[ChaosDefender24]

Oooh, nice magic item, throw on a continuous true strike in for good measure

[JaronK]

Oooh, nice magic item, throw on a continuous true strike in for good measure

Won't work. True Strike works on the next attack only.

JaronK

[Curmudgeon]

Won't work. True Strike works on the next attack only.

I'm pretty sure ChaosDefender24 knows this. We desperately need a sarcasm icon.

[KitsuneKionchi]

You can also persist Footsteps of the Divine. Then end it early and get +144000 movement speed for a round. Assuming your a cleric in fullplate, that's over 16,000 miles per hour...

If you also extend the spell, you can go 32,000 miles per hour; 7,000 more miles per hour than the escape velocity of earth. With divine metamagic, a 4th level cleric could run to the moon. Also fast enough to walk from Philidephia to Washington DC in a round...without the Run feat.

Persisting is easiest for Clerics of the Dragon Below. They can do Con damage to themselves to make up for it. Technically you could offset the con damage with a soulmeld from Incarnum, but that's unlimited metamagic slots and therefore cheesey on a theoretical level...

My favorite spell to do this too is a Cantrip from a Dragon Magazine. It creates a storm cloud that lingers over the target's head and zaps them for 1 electricity damage (reflect save negates) every round. Normally it only lasts like 1d4 rounds...but imagine that with 24 hours. That would kill most things...especially once you start to factor in exaustion and the poor rate of healing RAW d20 uses (does anyone really use RAW healing rules though? Most people tend to assume there's enough clerics around so adventuerers don't have to spend 30 days in bed just to heal up...even if it does make sense.)

The real abuse behind persisted spells...or any spell (I see you elemental immunity) that can last 20+ hours is the fact you can cast it, rest and reprepare your spells AND keep your buff for the first ~16 hours of adventuring without having it take up a spell slot! Great with Divine Might, Blessings of Girilion, Bite of the Werebear...you name it. I'd say "it makes fighters cry", but really the party should be buffing the fighter a bit too since his abilities complement the use of such spells.

[Signmaker]

My favorite spell to do this too is a Cantrip from a Dragon Magazine. It creates a storm cloud that lingers over the target's head and zaps them for 1 electricity damage (reflect save negates) every round. Normally it only lasts like 1d4 rounds...but imagine that with 24 hours. That would kill most things...especially once you start to factor in exaustion and the poor rate of healing RAW d20 uses (does anyone really use RAW healing rules though? Most people tend to assume there's enough clerics around so adventuerers don't have to spend 30 days in bed just to heal up...even if it does make sense.)

SpC actually has that spell, Thunderhead

[Tanaric]

If memory serves, errata changed Footsteps of the Divine to be a dischargeable spell, making it ineligible for persisting.

[JaronK]

You can also persist Footsteps of the Divine. Then end it early and get +144000 movement speed for a round. Assuming your a cleric in fullplate, that's over 16,000 miles per hour...

IIRC that was errataed to be specifically a dischargable spell and thus not work, sadly.

Persisting is easiest for Clerics of the Dragon Below. They can do Con damage to themselves to make up for it. Technically you could offset the con damage with a soulmeld from Incarnum, but that's unlimited metamagic slots and therefore cheesey on a theoretical level...

I'm looking at the Domain Index right now and see nothing about this ability. As far as I can see it gives Augment Summoning. Where do you get this? Anyway, if you want endless metamagic, Tainted Sorcerer + Naberius will get you there.

JaronK

[Curmudgeon]

Persisting is easiest for Clerics of the Dragon Below. They can do Con damage to themselves to make up for it.

Where'd you get that idea? The Dragon Below domain is given in Eberron Campaign Setting on page 106. I also checked Faiths of Eberron, and there's no update there. The granted power is Augment Summoning feat.