3.5 Silent Tank

[PrismaticPIA]

I need ideas for a 13th-level 'Quiet Tank'. Basically someone who can draw aggro, and sneak around really well.

Basic outline:

*Needs be effective at or by 13th level. Please no 20-level builds.

*Avoid campaign-specific material.

*The ability to draw and occupy aggro for several rounds

*Needs to hide REALLY well.

*WoTC material only. No third party sources, and no Dragon Magazines (Neither I nor my DM has access to any of them)

*Standard WBL. No flaws. No LA buyout.

I'm grateful for any and all suggestions.

[Dusk Eclipse]

..Crusader/cleric going into ruby knight vindicator, that goes towards tanking, about drawing agroo.. goad? (feat in Com Adventurer or warrior don't remember which)

[SurlySeraph]

Duergar Warblade or Barbarian or any other fighting-oriented class with the feats Magic in the Blood (from some Forgotten Realms book) and Guerilla Warrior (from Heroes of Battle). Invisibility and Enlarge Person on himself 3/day, and can add points to Hide and Move Silently as if they were a class skill even if they weren't cross-class (though the ranks cap doesn't increase). Add a level in Swordsage or another class that gets them as class skills to fix that. Good stealth, and if you want to draw attention suddenly appearing out of nowhere, being Large, and having a greatsword is a pretty good way to do it.

Alternately, Swordsage and/or Crusader + any race with a Dexterity bonus.

[Human Paragon 3]

Ninja 4/Fighter 4/Dread Commando 5

Feats to consider:

Martial Stalker lets Ninja and Fighter stack for Feats and Ki pool.

Since you need Dodge and Mobility for D.C., pick up Elusive Target.

The rest to taste.

Dread Commando nets you full BAB, 6 skill points per level, 3 sudden strike dice, +5 to your whole team's initiative, the ability to ignore armor check penalty (mithral full plate is the best choice here) and, my favorite, the ability to move and hide at no penalty and RUN or CHARGE and hide at just -10.

You will be fully armored. You will be a tank with the ability to deal respectable damage. You will be extremely sneaky. You will have +12 BAB at level 13.

You can take Martial Study (in any shadow hand manuever, preferable shadow jaunt) to grab Hide as a class skill forever. Once you've done that, might as well take Martial Stance to pick up Assassin's Stance for extra sneak attack. Or you can just be human and take Able Learner. Or you can replace fighter with swordsage if you feel like going the extra mile.

It's worth considering to buy items that will increase your stealth skills above the norm.

From there, I would go into Shadow Dancer for Hide in Plain Sight if you can squeeze in the prereqs.

One last feat that I highly recommend is Staggering Strike. Teamed with power attack, you will be staggering your opponents all the time, making you a really, really effective controller on top of everything else. And anything immune to Sneak Attack you just power attack into dust, anyway.

[Grumman]

I'll second the suggestion of the Ruby Knight Vindicator. You're a combined Cleric / Crusader which makes you incredibly tough, you've got hide as a class skill, and you ignore all ACPs on hide checks.

If you're playing in a setting where Wee Jaas doesn't exist, see if you can take the class as a follower of a deity that just happens to have the Trickery domain.

[Ernir]

Cleric with the Trickery domain. Cast Silence if you really mustn't be heard. You draw aggro by being dangerous in battle.

[HCL]

Binder/Knight of the Sacred Seal? Not sure about the drawing aggro, a crusader dip might be in order.

[Flickerdart]

Gratuitous application of tripping might help you out. Pick up some mix of Knight and Fighter, get a means of extended reach and a Spiked Chain, and lock down anything that comes close to you. Holding aggro counts if they can't attack anything, I'd say.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Ranger3/Barbarian2/Horizonwalker8

[Cieyrin]

Cleric with the Trickery domain. Cast Silence if you really mustn't be heard. You draw aggro by being dangerous in battle.

I'd use Armored Silence from Complete Adventurer, as then you don't unnecessarily screw yourself out of spellcasting.

Building on this, you could move into Shadowbane Stalker, which combines casting and stealth.

[Flickerdart]

Ranger3/Barbarian2/Horizonwalker8

A little too squishy to be a tank with the Walker's crummy HD. Immediately after the Shifting Terrain Mastery, I'd pick up two more Barbarian levels for the extra Rage and better HD.

[PrismaticPIA]

I like the Cleric/Crusader/RKV idea as well as the Ninja/melee/DC. I'll probably use them both.

Any suggestions for feats and items?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Darkstalker Lords of Madness is a MUST have for any sneaky character, it makes you "immune" (not sure if thats the right word) to blindsight, blindsense, scent and tremorsense AND also let you flank normally unflakeable creature (such as beholders)

[Ravens_cry]

I'll second the suggestion of the Ruby Knight Vindicator. You're a combined Cleric / Crusader which makes you incredibly tough, you've got hide as a class skill, and you ignore all ACPs on hide checks.

Pardon me, but what does ACP stand for?

[Foryn Gilnith]

Armor Check Penalty. Many tanks will have them.

[Person_Man]

Knight working with a caster who has access to Silence and Invisibility.
Incarnate.
Totemist.
CoDzilla.
Binder.

[Eldariel]

Ruby Knight Vindicator is probably the best; Crusader is a class built for tanking (that is, "holding aggro"; of course it doesn't work like that in real games, but Thicket of Blades + Reach Weapon + choice feats and maneuvers means you can ensure nobody gets past you easily, and coupled with some magic, you can shut off teleportation too).

Iron Silence means you can use a Full-Plate without it seriously intervening with your hiding attempts; not a bad trade. And you're also a 17/20 casting Cleric meaning you can buff yourself to high heavens and smite some heathen arse when you feel in the mood. You also have a good suite of offensive and team-supporting spells, along with some no-save gimps and yeah.


Might want to consider Cloistered Cleric-entry for skillpoints; with Kobold-domain and e.g. Whispered Secrets [RoD], you could do all the normal skillmonkery things like spotting/listening and dealing with traps and such (quite well too, with Divine Insight, Find Traps and such), and overall, being a fine frontliner. I'm playing a variation of this idea, Warforged Ruby Knight Vindicator, in Endless Dungeon if you're interested in seeing it in practice.

[Siosilvar]

Non-ToB, though could probably be spruced up a bit using ToB:

Cleric 1/Rogue 1/Knight 4/Shadowbane Inquisitor 7
Paladin 4/Rogue 1/Knight 1/Shadowbane Inquisitor 7
Cleric 1/Rogue 3/Knight 1/Shadowbane Stalker 8

Do note that you have to be Lawful Good for any of these.

[Ravens_cry]

Armor Check Penalty. Many tanks will have them.

Oh right, duh. Thanks.

[Soranar]

I dunno if chrystalkeep material works for you, but if it does here's a build

race : Lesser Aasimar (if allowed, of normal Aasimar)
alignment: must be Lawful evil

STATS (32 pts buy)
STR 14
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 17


1 Knight power attack
2 Survivalist exotic weapon proficiency spiked chain
3 Knight improved sunder bonus mounted combat
4 Survivalist combat reflexes
5 Knight
6 Survivalist cleave
7 Knight mettle
8 Blackguard
9 Blackguard heavy armor optimization dark blessing
10 Blackguard aura of despair
11 Paladin of tyranny
12 Paladin of tyranny greater heavy armor optimizationdivine grace
13 Survivalistimproved trip

recommended equipment : mithral full plate, ring of improved evasion , spiked chain

with the 2 amor feats you only get -1 to hide and move silently and +2 to AC

the knight levels let you walk normally (or run) in mithral full plate as it's considered medium armor

survivalist is a fighter variant with hide and move silently as class skills d10 hitpoint

knight gives you mettle (aggro , Cha based, only works on 5 INT creatures)

paladin of tyranny gives you your CHA to saves, stacks with dark blessing since it's not the same name

aura of despair helps with Mettle and spellcasters (lowers saves)

for future levels keep alternating survivalist and Knight (you can never take paladin levels again) and don't bother taking more blackguard as you can't sneak attack with a knight (against the code)

[Tao the Ninja]

Straight two-weapon ranger could work.

[Thurbane]

Ranger1/Barbarian 1/Fighter (Dungeoncrasher) 6/Dread Commando 5

Mithril Full Plate
Boots of Elvenkind

H Able Learner
1 Power Attack
3 Combat Reflexes
6 Leap Attack
F1 Improved Bull Rush
F4 Shock Trooper
9 Run
12 Fleet of Foot

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Swordsage with a Spiked Chain, Wep Finesse, a lot of Setting Sun, and Martial Study/Stance for Thicket of Blades. You basically appear in the middle of the enemies, throw them into a wall, then hit them as they run away.

[PrismaticPIA]

Swordsage with a Spiked Chain, Wep Finesse, a lot of Setting Sun, and Martial Study/Stance for Thicket of Blades. You basically appear in the middle of the enemies, throw them into a wall, then hit them as they run away.

What would that look like for a 13th level build?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Something like Swordsage 2/Crusader 2/Swordsage 9, grab EWP: Spiked Chain, and Weapon Finesse, then Martial Stance for your 12th level feat for Thicket of Blades. Stone Power is probably a good idea for personal protection, and Swordsage gets you a bunch of counters to protect yourself, not to mention the various escape methods they can use if things go south. Use stealth, movement abilities, and Dim Door to get to the middle of the enemy, then use Thicket of Blades to punish anyone who tries to leave. On your turn, use Setting Sun and Shadow Hand to impair your opponents abilities however possible, or just Stone Dragon to make them fall down in a more direct fashion. It's too late to stat up more comprehensively than that, though a key question is whether or not you'll use Wis for anything.

[Tokiko Mima]

Whisper Gnome Dragonfire Adept with the Mineral Warrior and Dark templates. Wear as heavy an armor as you like (who cares about attack bonus non-proficiency penalties? Not you!) with the Called property (for when you have to be sneaky) and pick 24 hour duration invocations, like Walk Unseen.

You can now Silence yourself 1/day as an SLA, as well as make yourself invisible at will. Though Hide and Move Silently are not class skills for you, you have a +14 bonus to Hide, and +10 to Move Silently from race and size. If that bothers ya, I'm sure you could take a level of another class strategically that would allow you to max those skills. Your AC, Fort Save and DR are insane and your Will save is good too. Because DFA's focus on CON for their Breath weapons, your HP should be quite tank-like, too.

Your main attack is your breath weapon, which is usually a 60' line or a 30' cone of 6d6 damage. Depending on how you pick your breath effects, you can massively debuff and distract your enemies, or just burn them with exotic damage types. They aren't forced to attack you, but since they'll be taking damage from you every round until they deal with you it kinda forces their hand. Which is great since you're a stone wall.