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Thread: Cavalry

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Cavalry

    Anyone know any good PrCs for a mounted charger type character. Preferably not Race or Alignment specific but not required to be so.
    Last edited by Xenogears; 2010-01-24 at 09:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Calvary

    No PrCs needed; you're generally best off with just base classes. Though ToB PrCs are fine, as are PrCs that advance Mount, particularly Halfling Outrider (yeah, yeah, just preferably) and Wild Plains Outrider as they can stack multiple advancements into fun fun awesome.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2010-01-24 at 09:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Cavalry

    Any prestige class with the word "Knight" in it? Check out Complete Warrior.
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    Default Re: Cavalry

    There is a cavalier Prg class in one of the completes... warrior IIRC, not sure how useful it is
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    Default How do you create a Mount using build?

    Hi, I'm planning on creating a melee build that rides a mount into battle (specifically, a flying one) but I have no idea on how to build one. Homebrew material may be okay if I can get it past the DM. The ECL is 16 and we're expected to go against a Tarraesque (and even tougher challenges afterwards) so optimizing shouldn't be a problem here.

    For the matter though, how does one get a flying mount?

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    Default Re: How do you create a Mount using build?

    Quote Originally Posted by JKTrickster View Post
    Hi, I'm planning on creating a melee build that rides a mount into battle (specifically, a flying one) but I have no idea on how to build one. Homebrew material may be okay if I can get it past the DM. The ECL is 16 and we're expected to go against a Tarraesque (and even tougher challenges afterwards) so optimizing shouldn't be a problem here.

    For the matter though, how does one get a flying mount?
    There are a few mounted PrCs which gain access to flying mounts. Alternatively, if you don't really need a SuperMount, you can always get a casting of Phantom Steed or Phantom Stag, both of which fly at 200+ speed.

    If you're set on a normal mount (as opposed to a spell-based one), make sure to boost your Ride checks to around +19 minimum, moreso for the sake of Mounted Combat. Additionally, read and understand the Ride and Handle Animal skills, as well as the Mounted Combat section.
    Last edited by Signmaker; 2010-01-24 at 10:14 PM.
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    Default Re: Calvary

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    No PrCs needed; you're generally best off with just base classes. Though ToB PrCs are fine, as are PrCs that advance Mount, particularly Halfling Outrider (yeah, yeah, just preferably) and Wild Plains Outrider as they can stack multiple advancements into fun fun awesome.
    1) What books are those in.

    2) What base class would work best. Right now I'm going towards Fighter as base for all the feats (Plus this lets me throw a few archery feats in the mix to balance him/her out a little.)

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    Default Re: Cavalry

    Halfing Ourider is in Complete Warrior, and Wild plain outrider MIGHT be in races of the wild.

    and as the best base class for a mount.... druid (Animal companion) or paladin
    If you want to get exotic there is the Prg class Ashworm Dragoon in sandstorm which gets an Ashworm as a mount
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    Default Re: How do you create a Mount using build?

    Hmm I think a normal mount (as in an actual one, not a spell based one) would be more fitting with my current character concept. But really, as long as it's a viable mount, I think I could always refluff it....

    And yeah, I'll be definetly pumped Ride. How important is the Handle Animal skill?

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    Default Re: How do you create a Mount using build?

    Handle animal is important for teaching it tricks (and improving you mount by giving it the warblade template MM III IIRC), also I think that there is class in the BOED that get you a giant eagle as a mount.
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    Default Re: How do you create a Mount using build?

    Spirited Charge, Heavy Lance, now go win.

    If there's one thing D&D got right (if by "right" we mean "marginally realistic") it's how ridiculously devastating and powerful a good cavalry charge is. And how easy it is to stop (set halbred, go.)

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    Default Re: How do you create a Mount using build?

    Hmm, well since this is a flying mount build anyway, charge isn't the only tactic. I was thinking that my character would have a backup range weapon to pick off enemies.

    But of course, charging deals amazing damage and I'm probably want to optimize that.

    @DuskEclipse: Hmm, thanks for the tips. I'm looking for them now, but the giant eagle sounds quite good off the bat...


    Anyone have any suggestions for class that I can use?

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    Default Re: How do you create a Mount using build?

    Quote Originally Posted by JKTrickster View Post
    And yeah, I'll be definetly pumped Ride. How important is the Handle Animal skill?
    It's tricky. Handle Animal is more useful as a passive skill (trick training, rearing, etc.) whereas Ride is what you're likely to actively use in combat.

    If you'd like to see a variety of non-classgranted mounts, the A&EG has quite a selection to choose from. Note that it's a 3.0 book, however, so you're going to have to request permission from your DM.

    Hmm, well since this is a flying mount build anyway, charge isn't the only tactic. I was thinking that my character would have a backup range weapon to pick off enemies.

    Anyone have any suggestions for class that I can use?
    Mounted Archery is actually quite a viable tactic due to the fact that your mobility means that you get hit less often (unless you're in a dungeon, in which case you'll want a good mount for damage output).

    As for classes, naturally anything that progresses Ride/HA smoothly. Stuff like Factotum or Marshal will help if you're more skill-centric, but neither of the two have full BAB, so your mileage may vary. Arguably, just running fighter for a few levels until you satisfy PrC prereqs is the easiest way to go.
    Last edited by Signmaker; 2010-01-24 at 10:47 PM.
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    Default Re: How do you create a Mount using build?

    IIRC he's nerfed charging slightly. There's a few tricks for your usual charger builds that aren't allowed in this campaign.

    Just make sure that you have a lot of attacks, can Power attack for a lot with shock trooper, and then grab as many multipliers as possible. Lance, Spirited Charge, two-handed, etc...I think you should still be able to deal between 100-200 each attack without too much effort, and then it's just a matter of grabbing a pile of attacks, and making your to-hit ridiculous. (And grab the mage slayer feats if at all possible. Magical miss chances suck.)
    Last edited by term1nally s1ck; 2010-01-24 at 10:51 PM.

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    Default Re: How do you create a Mount using build?

    Found the class in the BoED

    It is skylord, and you get a celestial mount (pegasi, giant eagle or giant owl) the problem is it have some steep prerequisites, half-elf or elf, mounted related and archeryfeats an exalted feat., 10 skill points in ride, handle animal and maybe another,

    on the plus side it is a half casting class if you enter by a casting class (prestige /normal paladin?) scaling mount, bonus on spot.

    It is an archer class mostly
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    Default Re: Cavalry

    Ashworm Dragoon in Sandstorm is quite cool visually and offers several abilities that are amazingly useful. It gets an excellent trample attack that squishes the enemy enough that they have to use a standard action to stand back up (excellent for locking down an enemy). At level 10 you can move the mounts full speed (of 30ft, the fastest of any burrower I can think of by 10ft) underground through anything short of solid rock. That helps a lot with getting into dungeons a similarly sized mount couldn't fit in. Plus there aren't a lot of things that can attack you through 30ft of earth, or know that you're there at all.

    It's progression also stacks with a Paladin's mount so you end up with a very powerful worm.

    Cavalier gives nice some multipliers to charging damage. It would be a pretty option for the last five levels

    Paladin 5/Ashworm Dragoon 10/Cavalier 5

    You'll have a level 20 Paladin Mount with an extra 10 HD, 12 natural armor, and 5 strength on top from Ashworm Dragoon. The Ashworm isn't an especially powerful combat mount, but it will be very resilient.
    Last edited by Commander_Vimes; 2010-01-24 at 11:12 PM.
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    Default Re: How do you create a Mount using build?

    Hmm...those prerequisites don't quite match up to what I was envisioning though. Then again, it does seem quite awesome to ride a celestial eagle into battle (but wow spending an exalted feat?)

    OTOH, I was browsing through MM 3 and I couldn't find that template mentioned. Where is it again?

    @term1nally s1ck: Really he did? What were they?

    Also I'm not really an optimizer and doing at least 100 damage seems a lot to me.

    I just hope I can pull together a sheet before the deadline. I've even got down most of his personality and background already

    EDIT: Hmm I was looking through MM 5 and saw something called the Steelwing. Would it be worth it as a flying mount? I just can't get the image out of my head now
    Last edited by JKTrickster; 2010-01-24 at 11:20 PM.

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    Default Re: How do you create a Mount using build?

    Quote Originally Posted by term1nally s1ck View Post
    IIRC he's nerfed charging slightly. There's a few tricks for your usual charger builds that aren't allowed in this campaign.

    Just make sure that you have a lot of attacks, can Power attack for a lot with shock trooper, and then grab as many multipliers as possible. Lance, Spirited Charge, two-handed, etc...I think you should still be able to deal between 100-200 each attack without too much effort, and then it's just a matter of grabbing a pile of attacks, and making your to-hit ridiculous. (And grab the mage slayer feats if at all possible. Magical miss chances suck.)
    With Shock Trooper and Spirited Charge you'll be dealing significant damage. Use ride-by-attack to keep yourself safe in boss fights.

    I think I was comfortably dealing a minimum of 36 damage a hit last time I played a charger... core only and at level 3.

    The only issue is you're pretty obviously a one-trick pony.

    EDIT: The sheet is the easy part. If you know starting level you can already start buying your equipment and placing your stats (hint: STR and CON since you're going to get hit a lot) and skill points (hint: 5 ranks in handle animal minimum, probably max in ride)
    Last edited by Superglucose; 2010-01-24 at 11:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Cavalry

    More importantly if I remember right, the Ashworm Dragoon can use Mounted Combat on every melee attack that targets his mount, so it might as well have immunity to melee attacks. It also has poison and the PrC lets you pump up the DC a few times per day. Really the only thing it doesn't have is flight, but there are ways around that, and burrowing is just as useful underground.
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    Default Re: How do you create a Mount using build?

    The Warbeast template is actually in MMII. Also consider the Magebred template from ECS. Mounted Combat Prestige classes of note include the Vadalis Beastkeeper, Halfling Outrider, Wild Plains Outrider, and Cavalier. The Devoted Tracker feat lets you stack ranger and paladin levels for several things, and consolidates your Animal Companion and Mount into the same creature.

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    Default Re: How do you create a Mount using build?

    Wild Cohort is probably the easiest way to get a mount that won't become obsolete quickly. But Supermount is probably the way to go if you want an especially strong mount, anyhow. See if you can get to ride the Tarrasque.
    Also: Take a look at the godly Great Flyby Attack feat in Savage Species. Considerably better than Improved Flyby Attack, less prerequisites, and you can hit a lot of targets. Increase your reach, and then just tear through enemy ranks.
    Last edited by Flickerdart; 2010-01-24 at 11:30 PM.
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    Default Re: How do you create a Mount using build?

    'No on Valorous, Battle Jump, or Headlong Rush.'

    This still leaves you with:

    Power Attack Shock Trooper
    Spirited Charge
    Two-handing a Lance.
    Riding Boots
    Wand of Rhino's Rush


    Which is a grand total of x5 damage on a charge.

    Power attack for 16, drop the penalty to AC.

    Lets say you've not used a Tome, you put your 4 levelup points into Str, had a 16 to start with (not even trying here), took the first level of Spirit Lion Totem (Whirling Frenzy variant) Barbarian, so you're raging for +4 Str (and an extra attack), a +6 item, and say 1 size modifier for a +2. Total Str of 32, that's a +16.

    So disregarding weapon enchantments, you're hitting for 1d12+32(PA+Str), and then multiply that by 5. 5d12+160 is pretty good, and probably needed to beat Regeneration 40 consistently.

    Oh, and Pounce from the Barbarian, plus the Frenzy, and lets say you happen to have a Haste buff on, gives you a total of +33/+33/+33/+28/+28/+28 (Houserule: All iterative attacks are at -5 from BAB) as your attack pattern on a charge. Without any magical enhancements on your to-hit. Of which you should have many.

    Ok, yeah, you have an AC of the Barn Door. But...your opponent, assuming you buffed your to-hit high enough that more than half your attacks hit, just took an average of 770 damage (-DR). If it hits you back at this point, we have a serious problem

    EDIT: And, tbh, you need to have, to do this: 5 Feats (All fighter feats), the level of Barbarian, your foot slot for magic items, UMD pumped up enough to use wands consistently (The horror ), and stick to full BAB classes. Oh, and pumped Str, and access to a Lance. (Plus, each +1 on the Lance adds 5 damage to each attack).

    Disregarding the Magic Items, this can be done with Barb1/Fighter4. You already have all the feats by then, and your next 11 levels can be whatever you feel is cool and grants good class abilities/versatility/more tricks. (remeber you lose an attack if you drop a point of BAB though)
    Last edited by term1nally s1ck; 2010-01-24 at 11:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Cavalry

    Maybe try and buy an advanced Wyvern? Or do it as a quest to tame the mightiest wyvern in the land or something.

    Heck, start a breeding program.

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    Default Re: How do you create a Mount using build?

    I recommend not touching the Skylord. If you want a flying mount, Dungeon master Guide offers these to common paladins at levels 6, 7 and 8.

    Wild Plains Outrider is a good choice for a prestige class for mounted combat, only three levels, the capstone is pretty much perfect. Levels in this class will boost the level of the Paladin special mount.

    As will levels of Cavalier. Which also give the full attack mounted movement at level 6, and more class features too. Wild Plains Outrider 2 would be a good addon to Cavalier levels afterwards (advances effective paladin level, gives a bonus to a few skill checks, boosts all speeds of the mount by +10 ft.)

    Paladin 6/Wild Plains Outrider 2/Cavalier 8 allows you to take a Hippogriph, Giant Eagle, Giant Owl, Pegasus or Griffon as a special mount, if you want the flyer. Also slaps +8 HD on the hippogriff, and +6 HD on the others.

    Cavalier alone makes charges quite brutal.

    Feats here are... Weapon Focus, Spirited Charge, Ride-by Attack, Mounted Combat and Track. To grab the five feats... Human, 1, 3, 6. Holy Warrior Variant in Complete Champion will let you sacrifice your (very non-progressing) spellcasting for a bonus feat at levels 4, 8, 11 and 14, from a list that fortunately grants all of the mounted combat feats.
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    Default Re: Cavalry

    Cavalier is a trap. You can't get the full attack on the charge (The barbarian can), and your extra damage on a charge doesn't stack with spirited charge. You use 10 levels to gain an extra 1 on your multiplier...

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    Default Re: Cavalry

    A one-level dip in Beastmaster, from Complete Adventurer, adds four effective druid levels for an animal companion without hurting your BAB progression. In fact, you don't need to have an existing animal companion -- the PrC will give it to you, starting with those 4 effective levels. You can spend a feat on Natural Bond for another 3, and Wild Plains Outrider levels add 1 each. That would make your mount much more durable and somewhat more effective in combat on its own. Getting your mount shot (or charmed) out from under you really sucks; having a tough mount that you can replace in 24 hours if it dies can be really useful.

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    Default Re: Cavalry

    Aglarondan Griffonrider, from Unapproachable East, gives you a griffin, so there's a flying mount.

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    Default Re: Cavalry

    For your basic charger, all you need is Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, Mounted Combat, Ride By Attack, and Spirited Charge. If you're an Orc, take Headlong Rush. Wield a Valorous Lance, and make sure you have Pounce (a level of Lion Totem Barbarian is the easiest way to get that). All of this is doable with Barbarian 1/Fighter 6. Simply use the Warbeast Template on a flying creature to find a price for it, and purchase the thing. Now go slaughter everything.

    If you want your mount to be super powerful, you could consider a supermount build, but be aware that it's not very powerful until later in the game (around level 12 or so) and that you yourself will be rather weak (especially by comparison). A basic Supermount build would be Halfling Divine Fey Variant Bard 5/Cleric 1/PrC Paladin of Freedom 2/PrC Ranger 1/Halfling Outrider 10 (the Fey Bard variant is from Unearthed Arcana, it gives you an animal companion, and Divine Bards are from the same, simply making you have divine casting as a Bard). There's a feat you can get (Devoted Tracker, IIRC) that lets you combine your Paladin Mount with your Animal Companion. Then you can use Dragon Mount to make it a Dragon (thus making its hit dice FAR more powerful) and Holy Mount (so your divine casting levels stack for your paladin mount levels). Notice that Halfling Outrider levels stack with Ranger, Druid, and Paladin mount levels. As such, this character is a 19th level character with 22 levels of Paladin Mount, 15 Druidic Animal Companion levels, and 11 additional Ranger Animal Companion levels, giving you a 26th level Animal Companion bonus to your 22nd level Paladin Mount, which is a dragon.

    Unfortunately, this uses up a lot of feats so your character himself won't be that great, even though your mount is awesome. Plus, you can't take Devoted Tracker or Dragon Mount until relatively late in the build, so it takes a while to mature.

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    Default Re: Cavalry

    There's always the Aglarondan Griffonrider PRC, from Unapproachable East. Gives you a Flying mount that advances along with the Paladin One. And you are on a Griffon.

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    Default Re: Cavalry

    Strongheart Halfling
    Paladin 5/ Beast Master 1/ Wild Plains Outrider 3/ Halfling Outrider 10
    1. Mounted Combat, Track
    3. Skill Focus (Handle Animal)
    6. Devoted Tracker
    9. Mounted Archery
    12. Natural Bond
    15. Dragon Steed
    18. Improved Mounted Archery

    Not exactly a charging build but when your Dragon Steed (I suggest Gold Wyrmling from Draconomicon page 139) has 26 HD (8 Wyrmling + 12 Druid +6 Paladin - or 27 HD if you can find a 9 HD Gold Wyrming for that extra feat goodness) you could easily set the mount to be the "charger" instead with the right feats.
    Last edited by gorfnab; 2010-01-25 at 05:43 AM.

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