OOTS #701 - The Discussion Thread

[Kumo]

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Actually, as Xykon said at the time, his soul lives in his body until and unless his body is destroyed. It doesn't stay in the phylactery.

Then again, he may have been bluffing to convince RC it was a waste of time to destroy the phylactery, at least for long enough for him to get some decent back-up plans in place....

Didn't redcloak say he created Xykon (well, turned him into a lich)? Wouldn't that mean

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he would know exactly how the phylactery works?

[Conuly]

Well, clearly he doesn't, because either

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A. Xykon knows something he doesn't about how it works or B. Xykon NOW knows something he doesn't about how it works because he successfully bluffed Redcloak into believing something that Redcloak used to know was untrue.

I'm using "bluffed" in the non-D&D sense, but even if I were, that'd be, like, ten times more blatant than Haley's "I'm trying to forge something so stop interrupting me so I can fool you!" line.

[Kumo]

Well, clearly he doesn't, because either

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A. Xykon knows something he doesn't about how it works or B. Xykon NOW knows something he doesn't about how it works because he successfully bluffed Redcloak into believing something that Redcloak used to know was untrue.

I'm using "bluffed" in the non-D&D sense, but even if I were, that'd be, like, ten times more blatant than Haley's "I'm trying to forge something so stop interrupting me so I can fool you!" line.

Wait, so now you're suddenly assuming it's perfectly clear you were already right on a slim possibility tangent? >.>

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I don't think it's possible to bluff anybody that well, and if it was, Redcloak would at least argue it a bit when it's a subject he's that well versed in.

...Did he argue it? i haven't read SoD yet but that hasn't been used as a point yet, so...

[gosh]

I have SoD, and when Redcloak turned Xykon into a lich, he clearly knew more about lichdom than Xykon did - Xykon hadn't even thought of the possibility, and when RC first asked, X thought he would be getting turned into some kind of zombie. (Although Xykon was far less competent back then.)

[Kish]

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Redcloak counted on Xykon reacting differently to Redcloak threatening the phylactery. Xykon's actual response is, "Go ahead. My soul's not in it now, so it's just a fancy bauble, but if you so much as scratch the paint on that fancy bauble, I'll rip your brother's spine out and use it to strangle you."

Redcloak himself never expresses an opinion on whether Xykon's soul is in the phylactery when Xykon is animate, but his reaction seems to indicate that Xykon is correct and it's not--or Redcloak is even more spineless than advertised.

[Kumo]

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Redcloak counted on Xykon reacting differently to Redcloak threatening the phylactery. Xykon's actual response is, "Go ahead. My soul's not in it now, so it's just a fancy bauble, but if you so much as scratch the paint on that fancy bauble, I'll rip your brother's spine out and use it to strangle you."

Redcloak himself never expresses an opinion on whether Xykon's soul is in the phylactery when Xykon is animate, but his reaction seems to indicate that Xykon is correct and it's not--or Redcloak is even more spineless than advertised.

Since a lich's soul is mystically tied to its phylactery, destroying its body will not kill it. Rather, its soul will return to the phylactery, and its body will be recreated by the power keeping it immortal.

Key word there is RETURN, implying it's somewhere else. Though, the passage also implies it's impossible to create more than one phylactery at a time. So unless they know for sure Redcloak's holy symbol is destroyed, they won't even bother to try making a second, assuming it's possible.

So, actually, whether or not it's possible to make another doesn't really matter. They'd still need to find the actual phylactery, destroyed or otherwise.

[samwich 1]

Is it just me or is redcloak doing the facist one armed salute?

[Kumo]

Is it just me or is redcloak doing the facist one armed salute?

Seemed to me like he was holding both his arms up and the other one was outside the frame.

[T_N_J]

This comic instantly made me remember a famous IDF Chief of Staff (i'm Israely), who is known for being charismatic, and, you guessed it - for wearing an eyepatch.

This guy is called Moshe Dayan:

[elonin]

... are you talking about the phylactery? The one redcloak actually told us about at the end of the first story arc? >.>

Wasn't aware that Redcloak knew about the phylactery. He was upset with Xyrcon even to the point of suggesting that at some future point that the goblins would have to do something about him. Given that Redcloak had it that was possible.

[Kumo]

Wasn't aware that Redcloak knew about the phylactery. He was upset with Xyrcon even to the point of suggesting that at some future point that the goblins would have to do something about him. Given that Redcloak had it that was possible.

... could you stop using pronouns please? i have no idea who's saying what. Or maybe i'm missing some huge plot point

[Gift Jeraff]

Wasn't aware that Redcloak knew about the phylactery. He was upset with Xyrcon even to the point of suggesting that at some future point that the goblins would have to do something about him. Given that Redcloak had it that was possible.

It wasn't possible. If Redcloak destroyed the phylactery, Xykon would still be around, and still be capable of kicking Redcloak's ass. (It would seem that in the OOTSiverse, the soul is in the lich until he/she/it is destroyed, so destroying the phylactery is not enough.)

[bsparrow]

Regarding the idea of Xykon just making a new phylactery:

My guess is that, while Xykon's soul may not be in the phylactery currently, there's probably still some sort of magical tie between it and himself, just because of its very property of being capable of holding his soul.

Honestly, I doubt he could make another while the first still exists somewhere. Have you ever heard of a lich with two phylacteries? I haven't. If it were possible to have multiple phylacteries, D&D would probably have a lot of Voldemort+Horcuxes situations, with liches making several of the things, just for insurance.

Of course, this is just conjecture.

[SaintRidley]

Regarding the idea of Xykon just making a new phylactery:

My guess is that, while Xykon's soul may not be in the phylactery currently, there's probably still some sort of magical tie between it and himself, just because of its very property of being capable of holding his soul.

Honestly, I doubt he could make another while the first still exists somewhere. Have you ever heard of a lich with two phylacteries? I haven't. If it were possible to have multiple phylacteries, D&D would probably have a lot of Voldemort+Horcuxes situations, with liches making several of the things, just for insurance.

Of course, this is just conjecture.

Aumvor's Fragmented Phylactery, a low DC epic spell that splits your phylactery into multiple pieces and requires each piece to be destroyed in order for you to be killed. Champions of Ruin.

Of course, it's a Faerun book and so probably out of play for OotS stuff anyway.

Aside from Demilichdom, it's the only legal way I'm aware of to have multiple phylacteries.

[Turkish Delight]

This comic instantly made me remember a famous IDF Chief of Staff (i'm Israely), who is known for being charismatic, and, you guessed it - for wearing an eyepatch.

This guy is called Moshe Dayan:

Huh. Someone mentioned earlier that the new, goblinoid-dominated Azure City that I referred to as a 'goblinoid Mecca' has a much closer correlation with somewhere else in the real world, but that the subject was just begging to start a 'real world' political flame war.

Funny thing. It's only just now that the pieces clicked together in my mind on that one.

[Teddy]

Is it just me or is redcloak doing the facist one armed salute?

He could just be waving to his loyal people, like, well, pretty much every great leader (especially dictators) in history has done.

[SoC175]

(It would seem that in the OOTSiverse, the soul is in the lich until he/she/it is destroyed, so destroying the phylactery is not enough.)

That's actually also how it is in the standard D&Dverse, there are quite a few adventures were the players may be able to destroy the phylactery before facing the lich. The lich is unharmed, he just needs from now on try harder to avoid destruction.

[Selene]

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A niece? As in Right-eye's daughter? If he's got no more brothers, then there is an actual possibility for at least some bad blood between her and Redcloak.

That is, unless she did not like her dad or something along those lines.

I so have to get that book now!

Ahhh... the crackpot conspiracy thickens!

Yup, you've got it right. Specifically...

SoD

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Xykon took Right-Eye's whole village prisoner and forced them into his army. That included Right-Eye's family - his wife, two sons, and his daughter. Right-Eye eventually tells Redcloak that he has managed to sneak his daughter to safety. But by then his wife and sons are dead. Note that Redcloak didn't resurrect them.

And yeah, anyone who doesn't have the book should really find some way of reading it, even if you have to borrow a copy from someone.

Didn't redcloak say he created Xykon (well, turned him into a lich)? Wouldn't that mean

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he would know exactly how the phylactery works?

Yes he did, and yes, he does.

[rewinn]

The scene with Redcloak looking into the mirror and evoking (in the non-magical sense) the image of his dead brother works only because O'chul poked out the left eye.

This is good sign that the author is planning ahead, very far head. Well done!

[Kumo]

The scene with Redcloak looking into the mirror and evoking (in the non-magical sense) the image of his dead brother works only because O'chul poked out the left eye.

This is good sign that the author is planning ahead, very far head. Well done!

You do realize evidence of planning ahead has been all over this comic, right?

[Conuly]

The scene with Redcloak looking into the mirror and evoking (in the non-magical sense) the image of his dead brother works only because O'chul poked out the left eye.

This is good sign that the author is planning ahead, very far head. Well done!

Wow, Rich managed to pull off an elementary bit of foreshadowing (and one that most of the forum expected to happen from the second that eye got poked out). Well done indeed.

(I love this comic as much as the next guy, but there is such a thing as being too effusive with your praise.)

[GenPol]

Yes, the eye thing was a bit obvious, but not less great.

[Faramir]

Very nice. I hadn't realized before that every time Redcloak looks into a mirror now he's basically seeing his brother. Well played.

[xanaphia]

Did anyone notice that the MITD is invisible?

[Kumo]

Did anyone notice that the MITD is invisible?

he's in the darkness >.> he always looks like that at the edge between dark and light when it's not the umbrella or there's no alcove/wall thing

[ThePhantasm]

Wow, Rich managed to pull off an elementary bit of foreshadowing (and one that most of the forum expected to happen from the second that eye got poked out). Well done indeed.

(I love this comic as much as the next guy, but there is such a thing as being too effusive with your praise.)

In a world where even TV shows (aside from LOST) are planned out either season-by season or even episode by episode, and where many online comics are only planned out strip by strip, it is indeed exciting to read a comic where certain character arcs have been planned from the outset. One doesn't usually expect that from an online comic. Lowered expectations? Perhaps. But I think it shows Rich is thinking carefully about the story and so sure, why not say "Well done?" "Well done" is hardly effusive praise.

[Shale]

It's more that compared with the planning ahead we already know about, like having the entire Azure City arc worked out before Miko even had a name, this is small potatoes.

[SteveMB]

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Redcloak counted on Xykon reacting differently to Redcloak threatening the phylactery. Xykon's actual response is, "Go ahead. My soul's not in it now, so it's just a fancy bauble, but if you so much as scratch the paint on that fancy bauble, I'll rip your brother's spine out and use it to strangle you."

Redcloak himself never expresses an opinion on whether Xykon's soul is in the phylactery when Xykon is animate, but his reaction seems to indicate that Xykon is correct and it's not--or Redcloak is even more spineless than advertised.

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The simplest explanation is that Redcloak was bluffing -- knowing perfectly well that destroying the phylactery wouldn't do any immediate harm to Xykon, but thinking that Xykon didn't know that -- and Xykon called his bluff.

[samwich 1]

hehehe Miko didn't have a name... good times