Protection From Night Attacks 4e

[HMS Invincible]

My GM has decided that being attacked at night counts as a coup de grace, and I can't convince him otherwise. i.e. Sleeping= Sleep spell = coup de grace= autocrit.

We have our usual watches but with +14 to stealth, he's sneaking past our watchman and attacking us which leaves all of us bloodied after the surprise round.

I need the best way to prevent this from happening again. We got about 6 people on average during a session, but we're lvl 11 and I'm a wizard. Ideas?

[KillianHawkeye]

Well your DM is right that being asleep will allow someone to use a coup-de-grace against you, since unconscious characters are automatically helpless. (In fact, being unconscious is the primary way of becoming helpless.)

As for preventing it from happening, I'll leave that to someone who isn't about to go to sleep.

[MickJay]

I don't know 4e, is there some form of this: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/alarm.htm available to you?

[Ben Miff]

Eye of Alarm ritual. Lvl 2 ritual, PHB1 pg 304.

[Studoku]

Eye of Alarm ritual, PHB, page 304.

3 eyes with darkvision and your perception+5.

EDIT: Ninjaed while looking up the page reference.

[Kurald Galain]

My GM has decided that being attacked at night counts as a coup de grace, and I can't convince him otherwise. i.e. Sleeping= Sleep spell = coup de grace= autocrit.

That is correct. The difference is that while sleeping normally, you would wake up and likely scream, whereas a sleep spell means you're magically unconscious and can be coup-de-graced again.

We have our usual watches but with +14 to stealth, he's sneaking past our watchman and attacking us which leaves all of us bloodied after the surprise round.

That's actually not. You're already doing the sensible thing (i.e. setting a watch) but it sounds like he's employing DM Fiat to make the watch irrelevant. If he is, then there's not much you can do about it other than pointing out that doing this frequently isn't fun for the campaign.

Otherwise, buy guard dogs, mounts, familiars, and so forth: the more perception checks you can make, the better. Yes, an alarm ritual exists, but it is actually less effective than setting a regular watch.

[Radar]

Wilderness:
1. Choose your resting place wisely: with limited access, hidden, easy to defend.
2. Campfire is revealing your position, so you should avoid having one.
3. Trap the entrance: a long spool of string combined with a bunch of bells is a good start.

Tavern:
1. Search the rooms for any hidden doors.
2. Block all doors and windows.
3. Trap them for a good measure.

A little paranoia goes a long way.

[Ceaon]

At level 11, your watch should be able to have a passive perception way higher than 24. 10 + half level + wisdom modifier + trained + item + feat. Take the Skill Training, Skill Focus and/or Alertness feats, get a Perception-increasing item, etc. If nobody is playing a wisdom based class, you can also use the previously mentioned ritual instead.

However, your DM can just increase the stealth of your assaillant and make sure you can not detect them. If this is the case, ask him why he wants to kill you and what you are supposed to do to stop this, since being murdered in your sleep is NOT a fun way to die.

[faceroll]

An alternative to no fire, given that the DM always knows where your position is, is to have a lot of fire. That way, it's hard for things to sneak up on you because it's so darn bright.

[icefractal]

We have our usual watches but with +14 to stealth, he's sneaking past our watchman and attacking us which leaves all of us bloodied after the surprise round.

After he CdGs the first person, they would wake up and be able to shout (as long as they aren't dead). That's like a DC 0 check to hear, so even with the penalty for being asleep the rest of the party should wake up.

As for sneaking past the watchman:
1) With six people, you can have two on watch at once - that should improve the chances of spotting it.
2) Have the sleeping people inside a tent, with the watchman physically blocking the entrance and touching the tent. The attacker can't enter, and even if they cut their way in, the guard should have a good chance to feel it because they're in contact with the tent (worth a definite bonus to Perception, IMO).

[Kurald Galain]

Caltrops Are Your Friend.

[potatocubed]

If I remember rightly you can't make Stealth checks without cover or concealment, right? (Definitely true in 3.x, not so sure about 4e.)

So remove all of both. Sleep in an inn room with a lantern burning. If you're out in the wilds, make camp in an open area with a huge fire and/or a sunrod stuck in the earth.

This doesn't protect you from night attacks, but it should help cut down the CdGs.

[Leolo]

Rituals are your best friends.

Also...being bloodied after the surprise round is not unfair. Being dead after the surprise round is unfair.

And it is possible. There are many monsters that could accomplish this even without you being helpless. So i do not believe that he wants to kill you, but maybe he wants to bring up the impression of a sneaky opponent who is using his primary ability to his best advantage.

I do no really see this as a problem.

[Mando Knight]

Grab an Elf Wis-focused ritualist with Nature, and force him to use Create Campsite (PHB 2) every night (with the entire party's help). If your tree-worshiper rolls well, it would take another Elf in order to find you.

[Blackfang108]

It's too bad none of you are Eladrin.

I love being fully aware of my surroundings while I nap.

They Eye of Alarm Ritual really seems to be your best bet. Also, if possible, camp alongside something solid. Cliff Face (either top or bottom) alongside a barn, just inside a cave with a fire illuminating the whole area, etc.

[HMS Invincible]

At level 11, your watch should be able to have a passive perception way higher than 24. 10 + half level + wisdom modifier + trained + item + feat. Take the Skill Training, Skill Focus and/or Alertness feats, get a Perception-increasing item, etc. If nobody is playing a wisdom based class, you can also use the previously mentioned ritual instead.

Our DM has not read the updated or even the old stealth rules. He's just matching his stealth roll + 14 modifier, vs our perception roll. I think he rolled a 30 total to stealth and none of us beat that.

[Tyrmatt]

If anyone feels like having their character drop dead anyway, they could reroll as a Warforged, giving you a permanent, never sleeping watchman.

Otherwise, you're limited to powering up your own perception and casting the aforementioned ritual.

[Beorn080]

I haven't played 4e, but there isn't a Rope Trick spell or similar.

Could always sleep in a bag of holding you've hauled up a tree branch by itself. A bottle of air to ensure you don't suffocate, and you should be set. Cast exploding runes on the outside, rope, and treebranch and your set.

[Mando Knight]

Could always sleep in a bag of holding you've hauled up a tree branch by itself. A bottle of air to ensure you don't suffocate, and you should be set. Cast exploding runes on the outside, rope, and treebranch and your set.

And then the thief ties up your bag of holding and makes a clean getaway with a lightweight means of carrying everything you have. Without alerting anyone.

[FoE]

Question: exactly who is attacking you here? It's one thing if these night-time attackers are just random encounters, but if this is some plot-mandated assassin trying to off you, then nothing we suggest may work.

[Sinfire Titan]

Our DM has not read the updated or even the old stealth rules. He's just matching his stealth roll + 14 modifier, vs our perception roll. I think he rolled a 30 total to stealth and none of us beat that.

Coups in 4E aren't as fatal as they are in 3.5. They need to deal a minimum damage equal to your Bloodied value in a single shot, otherwise the damage wakes you up. Even if they do, you get something of a save.

Still, sounds like your DM is ****ed at someone. Probably a Striker, because those classes get all kinds of hate from DMs.

[Kurald Galain]

Still, sounds like your DM is ****ed at someone. Probably a Striker, because those classes get all kinds of hate from DMs.

They do? Why?

I've seen DMs get mad at clerics because of excessive healing, or at defenders for their "no you don't" features, but never at a mere striker.

[Sinfire Titan]

They do? Why?

I've seen DMs get mad at clerics because of excessive healing, or at defenders for their "no you don't" features, but never at a mere striker.

I've read several 4E threads where the DMs complain about a Striker's damage output. Hell, we get threads asking "I'm a 2nd level Ranger and I'm dealing 20/attack, am I OP'ed?" every few weeks.

[Kurald Galain]

I've read several 4E threads where the DMs complain about a Striker's damage output. Hell, we get threads asking "I'm a 2nd level Ranger and I'm dealing 20/attack, am I OP'ed?" every few weeks.

I've also read several 3E threads where people claim a fighter can easily take down an equal-level wizard. That doesn't make it true.

Damage for a 2nd-level ranger is easily 2d10+8 (twin strike on a longbow, assuming longtooth shifter, a +1 weapon, and weapon focus). That's without even trying to optimize. On the other hand, strikers tend to go down fast when targeted by enemies, and are more hampered than most by conditions.

Anyway the notion that strikers get all kinds of hate from DMs doesn't match my experience, but I do agree that from the OP it seems the DM is either pissed at someone, or godmoding. Maybe the OP could clarify how often this has occured?

[Sinfire Titan]

I've also read several 3E threads where people claim a fighter can easily take down an equal-level wizard. That doesn't make it true.

Damage for a 2nd-level ranger is easily 2d10+8 (twin strike on a longbow, assuming longtooth shifter, a +1 weapon, and weapon focus). That's without even trying to optimize. On the other hand, strikers tend to go down fast when targeted by enemies, and are more hampered than most by conditions.

Anyway the notion that strikers get all kinds of hate from DMs doesn't match my experience, but I do agree that from the OP it seems the DM is either pissed at someone, or godmoding. Maybe the OP could clarify how often this has occured?

Just start looking through the previous threads, or on the WotC boards (Tzeentch help you if you do).

[Oracle_Hunter]

I've read several 4E threads where the DMs complain about a Striker's damage output. Hell, we get threads asking "I'm a 2nd level Ranger and I'm dealing 20/attack, am I OP'ed?" every few weeks.

Are these DMs total n00bs?

Because Strikers are supposed to do massive damage. That's their point.

If you can't deal with that, start adding Controllers to your Encounters. 'nough said.

[Sinfire Titan]

Are these DMs total n00bs?

Because Strikers are supposed to do massive damage. That's their point.

If you can't deal with that, start adding Controllers to your Encounters. 'nough said.

Yeah, no kidding. I rather hate it when someone gets upset at a class that's doing it's job.

[Hzurr]

I think it's easiest to get mad at strikers, because nothing ruins a GMs fun like having an awesome monster with cool abilities to throw at the party, only to watch it go down in flames in 2 rounds because the strikers devastated it. I mean, I put a lot of work into the encounters that I make, and I want it to challenge the party in cool ways, so when something is completely destroyed without a second thought, it frustrates me a bit.

That being said, at this point in our campaign, I've gotten pretty used to it, so it doesn't really bother me as much anymore, but back when the PCs were 1-3rd level, it agitated me some.

[Kurald Galain]

I think it's easiest to get mad at strikers, because nothing ruins a GMs fun like having an awesome monster with cool abilities to throw at the party, only to watch it go down in flames in 2 rounds because the strikers devastated it.

On the other hand, what about a series of walls that wreak havoc with monster formation, or the entire encounter being dazed and/or slowed in the first turn, or a melee bad guy spending five turns immobilized in the corner of a web spell?

Controllers are so much fun