[3.5]Divination expert

[Ranos]

Okay, here's the deal. I want my next PC to be the guy who knows stuff. A divination expert, so to speak. I'd rather he didn't have the rest of the fullcaster package, a character focused exclusively on divination and information gathering would be great, but that probably doesn't exist. Anyway, what are the best options for that sort of character ?

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Cloistered Cleric.

[Optimystik]

Psion Seers get useful tricks that neither wizards nor clerics can duplicate easily, like Metafaculty (AKA "show me the money!")

[Ernir]

Focused Specialist Diviner, and just don't take more non-divination spells than you really want?

[Optimystik]

Focused Specialist Diviner, and just don't take more non-divination spells than you really want?

Even a dedicated diviner likely won't need 3 divination spells per spell level.

[deuxhero]

Spontaneous divination ACF from CC is nice as most divination is highly situational. Loremaster's capstone isw also pretty cool, as legend lore is acctually fairly good when it's cost and time are removed.

[Ranos]

Okay then, I was thinking archivist before, but Spontaneous divination sealed the deal. Psions have some nice stuff too, but it comes in too late for my game and casters still get a lot more of divination spells and effects.

I guess I'll go wizard with the ACF, and probably arcane disciple (oracle) to supplement my list. Any good divination spells from obscure sourcebooks I should be made aware of ? Or divination focused prestige classes ?

[Optimystik]

As deuxhero pointed out, Loremaster is a very powerful know-it-all PrC.

For a divination focus, you can't go wrong with Divine Oracle (CDiv.) Full casting, Oracle Domain, Archivists can enter, Divination Enhancement, and a great and flavorful capstone - Immunity to Surprise.

Paragnostic Apostle (CChamp) is also a great choice for a sage, letting you put your Knowledge skills to good use.

All three have full casting progression as well.

[Ernir]

Unseen Seer (Complete Mage) is divination-focused too. More of a Rogue/Wizard type than a pure Wizard, though.

Note that the Spontaneous Divination ACF says you can spontaneously cast any Divination spell, not just Divination spells in your spellbook, or even just Divination spells on the Wizard spell list. Run it by your DM.

Even a dedicated diviner likely won't need 3 divination spells per spell level.

Hey, the OP wanted something "focused exclusively on divination".

[Ranos]

Unseen seer looks pretty good, especially the ability to learn a few divination spells from any list. I wonder if there's a way to get all those skill requirements without losing a caster level though.

I don't think that version of Spontaneous Divination's gonna fly with my DM though. I wouldn't allow it to my players either.

[Optimystik]

Unseen seer looks pretty good, especially the ability to learn a few divination spells from any list. I wonder if there's a way to get all those skill requirements without losing a caster level though.

Take a level dip in rogue at 5, you'll at least get sneak attack as well. The SA dice will make up for missing a caster level, especially on rays and orbs, and Divination Spell Power will cover for you there as well.

[RagnaroksChosen]

Take a level dip in rogue at 5, you'll at least get sneak attack as well. The SA dice will make up for missing a caster level, especially on rays and orbs, and Divination Spell Power will cover for you there as well.

On top of that if i remember correctly there are a bunch of nice divination spells that help get sneak attack and or spells that help with ranged attacks i belive(can't remember if there weapon only or not).

[ericgrau]

Loremaster, maybe as a sorcerer. Be sure to coordinate your intel with your party, along with ways to shortcut challenges. Divination is pretty useless when they just rush in to every encounter anyway. Also consider what you and your party will do after you complete the scouting / scrying. Maybe you or another party member buffs your party, charms the enemy, throws up illusions to bypass the encounter, etc. Or, again, it becomes useless and that makes you a useless PC. You don't want that.

[Eldariel]

Loremaster, maybe as a sorcerer. Be sure to coordinate your intel with your party, along with ways to shortcut challenges. Divination is pretty useless when they just rush in to every encounter anyway. Also consider what you and your party will do after you complete the scouting / scrying. Maybe you or another party member buffs your party, charms the enemy, throws up illusions to bypass the encounter, etc. Or, again, it becomes useless and that makes you a useless PC. You don't want that.

Sorcerer has serious issues entering Loremaster due to the Knowledge-prerequisites and Sorc's lack of skillpoints. Not only that, but being Cha-focused means Sorc's Int is kinda low and thus they can't access the higher level Secrets until late. Wizard works though, and enables specialization and Spontaneous Divination to boot.

As a Wizard, I'd first enter Divine Oracle and take it 4 levels initially, followed by some levels in Loremaster (to enable you to benefit of the entry requirements) and pick up a feat for your trouble. After that, I'd take 4 levels of Fatespinner and then finish off Divine Oracle.


So, I suggest:
Wizard 5 (Spontaneous Divination)/Divine Oracle 10/Loremaster 1/Fatespinner 4

[Zom B]

I know it's not much help, but I once created a Cleric/Divine Oracle that stayed ethereal 24 hours a day and cast spells onto the material plane through a Crystal Ball. How I did it, I don't remember. It involved a Tabard of the Disembodied and a Crystal Ball, I remember that much. It was an interesting character.

[ericgrau]

Sorcerer has serious issues entering Loremaster due to the Knowledge-prerequisites and Sorc's lack of skillpoints. Not only that, but being Cha-focused means Sorc's Int is kinda low and thus they can't access the higher level Secrets until late. Wizard works though, and enables specialization and Spontaneous Divination to boot.

As a Wizard, I'd first enter Divine Oracle and take it 4 levels initially, followed by some levels in Loremaster (to enable you to benefit of the entry requirements) and pick up a feat for your trouble. After that, I'd take 4 levels of Fatespinner and then finish off Divine Oracle.


So, I suggest:
Wizard 5 (Spontaneous Divination)/Divine Oracle 10/Loremaster 1/Fatespinner 4

Only 2 skills, easy with an int of 10 or 12. Another PrC provides knowledge as a class skill. Int is only a problem for quick dips into loremaster for a single high level secret. Otherwise the 1x limit per secret makes it entirely moot. Normally wizard is preferred for loremaster b/c you don't want to have many divinations prepared, you want to swap them in after 24 hours notice. The OP's goals are the opposite. As you will need very many divinations at every bend of the dungeon, and it's impossible to predict which one you'll need (well, perhaps without more divination...), it'd be a nightmare trying to guess which spells to prepare, how many copies of each one, and trying to have enough of them to not run out after only a little walking. It's a nightmare to pull off with a standard wizard or cleric, but cake for a sorcerer who gets more spells per day and can choose which one he wants to use on the fly.

But that build provides some other way to get spontaneous casting? That would change things.

[Glimbur]

Take a level dip in rogue at 5, you'll at least get sneak attack as well. The SA dice will make up for missing a caster level, especially on rays and orbs, and Divination Spell Power will cover for you there as well.

Consider Spellthief (C Adv) instead of rogue, it gets 6+ instead of 8+ skill points, but still a die of sneak attack and some other benefits, not the least of which is the chance to take Master Spellthief (feat from Complete Scoundrel) and get the Caster Level back, be able to steal spells effectively, and cast in light armor.

[Kosjsjach]

Consider Spellthief (C Adv) instead of rogue, it gets 6+ instead of 8+ skill points, but still a die of sneak attack and some other benefits, not the least of which is the chance to take Master Spellthief (feat from Complete Scoundrel) and get the Caster Level back, be able to steal spells effectively, and cast in light armor.

I used to love the idea of an Unseen Seer with Master Spellthief, and I couldn't think why it wasn't the preferred dip for skills and sneak attack... until I found that Practiced Spellcaster compensated for the caster level loss to non-divination spells from Divination Spell Power. By the end of Unseen Seer, you're casting your non-divination spells at CL-3.

[Kol Korran]

not much to add, other than that the Divine Oracle's 3rd level ability- divination enhancment, makes taking omen of peril, augury and divination quite worthwhile, and much less of a risk. Divination can be a very powerfull spell if used correctly, not just like the simple example in the PHB. it has served me well so far, even with the about 20% off chance. (i didn't take the prestige class)

if you plan to use it often though, make sure to phrase your questions carefully.

oh, and on another note- speak with the dead is a great investigation tool. just choose low will targets.

kol

[Eldariel]

Only 2 skills, easy with an int of 10 or 12. Another PrC provides knowledge as a class skill. Int is only a problem for quick dips into loremaster for a single high level secret. Otherwise the 1x limit per secret makes it entirely moot. Normally wizard is preferred for loremaster b/c you don't want to have many divinations prepared, you want to swap them in after 24 hours notice. The OP's goals are the opposite. As you will need very many divinations at every bend of the dungeon, and it's impossible to predict which one you'll need (well, perhaps without more divination...), it'd be a nightmare trying to guess which spells to prepare, how many copies of each one, and trying to have enough of them to not run out after only a little walking. It's a nightmare to pull off with a standard wizard or cleric, but cake for a sorcerer who gets more spells per day and can choose which one he wants to use on the fly.

But that build provides some other way to get spontaneous casting? That would change things.

You need PrC-dip and Int 12 (to cross-class it) at least unless you plan on dumping Concentration, and even then you still lack Spellcraft. I don't think that's really a light requirement anymore.

And yeah, Wizards have an alternative class feature that enables them to spontaneously cast Divinations.

[Optimystik]

Consider Spellthief (C Adv) instead of rogue, it gets 6+ instead of 8+ skill points, but still a die of sneak attack and some other benefits, not the least of which is the chance to take Master Spellthief (feat from Complete Scoundrel) and get the Caster Level back, be able to steal spells effectively, and cast in light armor.

The trouble is that the skills are what he needs, so every point counts. Also, a Factotum dip (while handy for other reasons) won't give him Sneak Attack.

[Thespianus]

Focused Specialist Diviner, and just don't take more non-divination spells than you really want?

Trust me, it is NOT a path you want to go down. (I play one myself)

Focused Specialist Conjurer with Spontaneous Divination ACF is what you want. ;)

Combine with Unseen Seer. In short: (Arcane) Divination Win!

As for adding to Sneak Attack damage, Unseen Seer lets you pick Hunter's Eye off the Ranger spell list. A (persistable) level 2 spell that gives you +CL/3 D6 worth of sneak attack damage.

But, yeah getting the ranks in the necessary skills might be hard, You probably need Able Learner and more than one level of Rogue to get into it.

[ericgrau]

You need PrC-dip and Int 12 (to cross-class it) at least unless you plan on dumping Concentration, and even then you still lack Spellcraft. I don't think that's really a light requirement anymore.

And yeah, Wizards have an alternative class feature that enables them to spontaneously cast Divinations.

You can grab most of your skill ranks on the level(s) you PrC, so these wouldn't be cross class. Then an int of 12 still gives you 3 skills or almost 3 skills. What book grants spontaneous divination for a wizard? I couldn't find it in the Unearthed Arcana SRD. Ah well, if that's allowed then the only thing you'd lose is spell slots and it seems more versatile if it allows access to every divination spell. Talk about a power boost to diviners. I mean, having the wrong divination spell prepared is the school's main downfall.

[Eldariel]

You can grab most of your skill ranks on the level(s) you PrC, so these wouldn't be cross class. Then an int of 12 still gives you 3 skills or almost 3 skills. What book grants spontaneous divination for a wizard? I couldn't find it in the Unearthed Arcana SRD. Ah well, if that's allowed then the only thing you'd lose is spell slots and it seems more versatile if it allows access to every divination spell. Talk about a power boost to diviners. I mean, having the wrong divination spell prepared is the school's main downfall.

It gives you access to all Divinations you know spontaneously. It's from Complete Champion.

[deuxhero]

Exactly, sans the "known" bit (but you'll use it with that RAI bit if you don't want a DMG to the head). It even lets you cast spells from non-wizard list! All for one 5th level bonus feat.

[Optimystik]

It's not like divinations are broken anyway. Your DM can just answer all your auguries, CoPs, legend lores etc. in vague monosyllables if he wants, and wizards already have the useful ones like True Seeing.

[mostlyharmful]

indeed, all it really does is reduce the number of days spent waiting to realign the spell list of the parties wizard when a clue needs probing.

[Dr.Epic]

Go Lore Master. My brother who plays wizards in nearly every campaign and usually plays a diviner or evoker says their the best PrC for that type of build.

[deuxhero]

usually plays [...] evoker

Please tell me he stuck to force spells.

[Dr.Epic]

Please tell me he stuck to force spells.

Okay, I honestly don't see why everyone hates evokers. They specialize in the spells that make enemies dead. FIREPOWER!!!!