Turn/rebuke undead substitue???

[ShadowsGrnEyes]

Okay so im running a game soon that will have absolutely no undead in it. Should someone choose to be a paladin or a cleric i would like to replace turn/rebuke undead with somthing that might actually be used at some point.

the only substitue i can think of is the turn rebuke dragons one. . . .

what other options are there?

[Stegyre]

The obvious one: nothing.

Turn/rebuke undead is so much more useful for powering other abilities, like good Divine feats, that even a complete absence of undead is completely irrelevant.

[Boci]

There are several feats fueled by turn undead attempts, most notable the devine metamagic which allows you to by off the level a djustment of a specific metamagic with turn attempt on a 1 for 1 bases.

When you say no undead, do you mean really few or actually none?

EDIT: Ah, ninja'd by someone whose avatar is a ninja, how fitting,

[Godskook]

There's already a *LOT* of other things you can do with turn/rebuke, enough that other classes find ways to *get* it for non-undead use. For instance, there's the devotion feats from Complete Champion(I think) that most of which allow you to spend turn attempts to gain additional uses of the feats. Travel devotion in particular is quite popular, but there's quite a few others that make good choices too.

(I think Knowledge devotion is pretty popular, but that one doesn't use turn attempts).

[Cyclocone]

Smite Evil.

[Bayar]

Smite Evil.

Hmm...smite evil 5/day at level 20.

Not sure if you are serious.

[Starbuck_II]

How about smite evil 1/turn attempt? 3 + Cha uses.
The Variant above gives two things: Smite + Aura of Courage.
Even the designers knew Smite evil like a Pally isn't worth losing turn undead.

[Kol Korran]

check the Complete Devine for all those feats that use turn attempts. divine metamagic has been mentioned, but i'd like to also note the feat Divine Power- basically you use turn attempts to increase your caster level by 1-4 (sometimes less, look for it for the mechanics).

i found it very usefull, from increasing time of spells, to making them more potent and so on. i heartily recommend it.

Kol.

[Hal]

Since Turn Undead will have zero use besides fueling feats, here's a few ideas:

1) Give them a bonus feat that is fueled by turn attempts. The Complete Divine devotion feats have been mentioned, any of these would be decent ideas.

2) Allow the turn attempts to fuel other class features. For example, paladins could get extra Lay on Hands or smite attempts. Clerics could get extra casting out of it (similar to the feat Versatile Caster).

3) Just allow their turning to apply to something else. Plenty of the domains grant alternate turning targets. Elementals, demons, aberrations, or even just evil creatures.

[Ravens_cry]

Try Channel Energy instead? While not the highest amount of healing, it's nice to potentially get everyone in the group in one shot.

[Demons_eye]

Wis/Cha to ac in light armor?

Lore like a CC?

Can add your class level as a bonus to a roll usable 3+Cha times a day?

[Optimystik]

Will there be elementals/outsiders? If so, you can use Planar Banishment turning instead.

[Sinfire Titan]

Channel Incarnum: Magic of Incarnum. Replaces Turn/Rebuke for an Azurin Cleric, but allows you to take Divine feats that specify Turn/Rebuke Undead (like DMM). Fairly decent if the party is Incarnum-heavy, but otherwise isn't that powerful.

[Person_Man]

Champions of Valor has several substitution level options to replace Turn Undead for the Paladin:

• Berronar Valkyrie gives you Pounce with a single weapon + Mobility for you and your mount, if the enemy is threatened by an ally, 3 + Cha mod times per day.
• Crescent Moon Knight sub gives you Favored Enemy Lycanthropes.
• Golden Cup sub gives you Shield Other Cha bonus times per day.
• Golden Lion sub gives you "Enemy of Strife" which lets you ignore the miss chance on attacks against Cyric/Bane/Zhenterim followers, and makes your attacks Good aligned against them.
• Holy Judge sub gives you Censure Devil.
• Lion Legionnaire gives you an extra attack 3 + Cha mod times per day.
• Mystic Fire Knight gives you bonus spells.
• Noble Heart gets ignores Hardness against Lovitar followers.
• Red Falcon gets some minor Skill/spell bonuses.
• Vigilant Eye of Helm gets limited Awesome Blow.
• Wary Swordknight gets Uncanny Dodge.

[Anonymouswizard]

Free feat based on deity.

4+int skill points.

Divine shield: wis/cha to AC for x rounds.

Heals living creatures.

a selection of other things.

[Coy]

Im pretty sure there is an ACF from either complete mage/arcane or UA that replaces turning with counterspell. Its actaully not bad rulewise, but i think its paladins only? Something like that.

Sorry its not specific.

[ShadowsGrnEyes]

Thanks everyone, Great idea's I think i'll field the ideas to my players and see what they like. whatever i replace it with will be turn/rebuke (somthing other than undead) and i will allow it to count as Turn/rebuke undead for the purpose of feats.