(3.5) Is Run a good feat?

[Angrist]

Is Run a good feat?
I have an elf Barbarian that is hitting ninth level and I'm considering Run but I'm not sure. I like the idea of having dex mods and extra speed but I don't thik it will help if I'm the only one on the team with decent movement.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Not really. You charge 60-80', that's probably enough. If an enemy can move more than that in a round and still remain relevant, the casters can slow him down or speed you up. Run ony helps for running away or if fights start at extreme ranges, and Teleport/DimDorr can handle those. You don't want to be too much faster than your team, and there are far too many good feats out there to spend one on Run.

[absolmorph]

Run isn't needed. If you need to run away, a human Barbarian can move 40 ft (30 base+10 Fast Movement) normally, charge 80 ft (40*2) and run 160 ft (40*4). If that's not enough, use Haste. That increases the normal move to 70 ft (30 base+10 Fast Movement+30 Haste), charge to 140 ft (70*2) and running to 280 ft (70*4).
Otherwise, Teleport or Dimension Door.

[Drakevarg]

Depends on what sourcebooks you have available, and how you play. If you have plenty of books, don't bother. There are oodles of shinies to use instead. If you're in a campaign where running like hell is a common occurance, I'd say yes. This opinion is largely from personal experience as a DM, where all my PCs took Run and drove me mad because they could easily escape any scenario where I didn't use a bloody cave-in to keep them there.

That, on top of letting them get full plate by second level, is part of a long list of mistakes I've made as a novice DM. As a result I've started recording the time gap between all significant locations using every possible means of transportation, just so I know what it'll take to catch those buggers.

My PCs are cowards though. So if you fit that bill and like driving your DM nuts, go right ahead and take Run.

EDIT: Then again, the ninja above me has caused me to notice something; at the point you're at, running on foot is kind of irrelevent. Chances are anything you're fighting at that level has got something to keep you in its Instant Death Radius.

[Grumman]

Absolutely not. When it comes to running, there are only three speeds: faster than the enemy, the same speed as the enemy, and slower than the enemy. As a barbarian you're already faster than infantry, and Run isn't enough to keep you from being slower than cavalry.

[Drakevarg]

Absolutely not. When it comes to running, there are only three speeds: faster than the enemy, the same speed as the enemy, and slower than the enemy. As a barbarian you're already faster than infantry, and Run isn't enough to keep you from being slower than cavalry.

You'd be exactly as fast as cavalry, actually. Cavalry moves at 50 ft, Barbarians at 40. 50 x 4 = 200, 40 x 5 = 200.

And that's assuming that a horse carrying a (probably heavily armored) rider only has a light load.

[PhoenixRivers]

You'd be exactly as fast as cavalry, actually. Cavalry moves at 50 ft, Barbarians at 40. 50 x 4 = 200, 40 x 5 = 200.

And that's assuming that a horse carrying a (probably heavily armored) rider only has a light load.

If you're assuming Heavy Cavalry, then it's likely that they are on a light load.

If you're assuming Light Cavalry, then it's likely that we're using a light warhorse and lightly armored troops, for a faster movement than the running barbarian.

[Drakevarg]

I don't have my MM on me. What's a Light Warhorse's movement speed?

[Milskidasith]

You have internet access, look at the SRD. It's not hard to google.

It's 60 feet.

d20rsrd.org, by the way.

[Studoku]

I don't have my MM on me. What's a Light Warhorse's movement speed?

60ft base

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/horse.htm

[Drakevarg]

I have such a huge preference for meatspace books that it often doesn't occur to me that the non-meatspace variety even EXISTS. Hence why I didn't just go look it up.

Also because someone who knew it off the top of their head would probably wander past in a few minutes anyway.

But yeah, when you take that and add Paladin mount speed boosts and whatnot on top of that, the answer is "Run is useless." If it's a low-level campaign it might help, but when you add horses and spells into the mix it gets pathetic real quick-like.

Then again, there's still the +4 Jump bonus...

[Angrist]

Absolutely not. When it comes to running, there are only three speeds: faster than the enemy, the same speed as the enemy, and slower than the enemy.

You forgot the fourth speed. You dont have to be faster than the enemy, just faster than the guy next to you.

[Temotei]

You forgot the fourth speed. You dont have to be faster than the enemy, just faster than the guy next to you.

Or flying. Fly wins.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Or flying. Fly wins.

I prefer Invisible. Let the party run away, you stay behind and loot.

Or Teleporting. ∞/6 seconds is pretty darn good IMHO.

[truemane]

Also, horses have the Run feat as well. So you're stymied in several different ways.

But as to the OP's question: Run provides very little actual mechanical benefit in your average (non-cowardly-party) game. Combat rarely takes place on a scale where a full-round worth of movement is required to move between various parts of it and once you're out of combat, how fast you can run full-out in full-armour is rarely an issue.

The +4 to Jump checks might be nice. But other than that, only take it if you think it's fun.

[Temotei]

I prefer Invisible. Let the party run away, you stay behind and loot.

Or Teleporting. ∞/6 seconds is pretty darn good IMHO.

How about all of the above?

Invisible flying teleporting barbarian!

[Irreverent Fool]

Horses get Run as a bonus feat. Get a horse. Or a boost to your base speed.

obnoxious
sig

[Roderick_BR]

Run is like emcumbrance rules. Most people doesn't care for it (except for when a player tries to carry half the equipment list on his backpack, or when checking if you can reach something in one round).
I really don't think what good it can do. It makes your max speed be x5 instead of x4, but doesn't explain it in battle, since you can effectivelly only run x2 (double move). Unless I read that wrong...
But yeah, I never really saw anyone actually using it.

[Chrono22]

It's a great feat to give your pegasus mount. And giving it to a dragon is also amusing.
Run flying, the pegasus could move 600 feet per round.
Run flying, a gold dragon could move 1250 feet per round.

[tyckspoon]

Run is like emcumbrance rules. Most people doesn't care for it (except for when a player tries to carry half the equipment list on his backpack, or when checking if you can reach something in one round).
I really don't think what good it can do. It makes your max speed be x5 instead of x4, but doesn't explain it in battle, since you can effectivelly only run x2 (double move). Unless I read that wrong...
But yeah, I never really saw anyone actually using it.

You can still take a full-round action, such as running, in a fight. It's just usually a fairly bad idea, as it has the same restrictions as charging (you rarely need to move that far in a completely straight line in a fight, at least not without better options for doing so) and you lose your Dex bonus when you do it. The Run feat does at least fix that part, but you're still faced with it being basically useful in situations where it is critical that you cover about 30 feet more in one full-round action instead of 1 full-round + 1 move. Which is a corner case with quite a few ways to approach it, with Run being one of the worst thanks to the very high opportunity cost of spending the feat.

[Dr.Epic]

Tee-Hee!!!

[Drakevarg]

Run is like emcumbrance rules. Most people doesn't care for it (except for when a player tries to carry half the equipment list on his backpack, or when checking if you can reach something in one round).

Most people ignore encumberance? Huh. I usually give it a lot of attention, since a) I want to throw any handicap I can find at my players and b) I want to throw any handicap I can find at myself. Encumberance can work hell on your AC and Check Penalties, too. I was building a sheet for a fellow player and had to take away like half his equipment because having a Medium load practically crippled him.

[Sliver]

Most people ignore encumberance? Huh. I usually give it a lot of attention, since a) I want to throw any handicap I can find at my players and b) I want to throw any handicap I can find at myself. Encumberance can work hell on your AC and Check Penalties, too. I was building a sheet for a fellow player and had to take away like half his equipment because having a Medium load practically crippled him.

Unless you wear full plate.. Then as long as it is under max load, your cool..

[Drakevarg]

Only because all of the cripplage that a heavy load gives you is already given by the full plate.

Now that I think about it, I should houserule that heavy loads and armor penalties stack...

[Temotei]

Only because all of the cripplage that a heavy load gives you is already given by the full plate.

Now that I think about it, I should houserule that heavy loads and armor penalties stack...

-12 to checks! -24 for Swim!

With a tower shield, that changes to -22, -44.

[Drakevarg]

Go tie 300 pounds to your back and try to swim. In full plate armor. You can use scuba gear, if only so you'll survive to tell me how well you did.

With that much stuff, you're not swimming. You're WALKING.

[Temotei]

Go tie 300 pounds to your back and try to swim. In full plate armor. You can use scuba gear, if only so you'll survive to tell me how well you did.

Cast enervation and bestow curse on me first. I think it'll be too easy otherwise.

[absolmorph]

I think I'd be at a disadvantage to begin with, using my below-average Str score.
Also, I love my Pally and his inability to make a Swim check on a natural 20 (he has 115 pounds of gear and 16 Str, giving him a -20). Hurrah for the ability to strip down to my boxers/undergarments!

[suryasm]

Run is a bad feat to take at any time, unless you expect your GM to throw things at you that you cannot handle.

Taking Run to close with the enemy though, is dumb, unless the rest of your party takes the feat so they can keep up.

Really, the only situation where Run is a good idea is if the opposition spends a lot of time escaping from you.... in which case its probably easier all round to have the spellcaster keep Slow or Hold Monster prepared.