Help with ToB NPC (New Question Added)

[Drolyt]

New Question: Is there some way to increase your initiator level, like practiced spellcaster but for Martial Adepts?
Okay, I'm trying to come up with an NPC build that combines spellcasting and ToB maneuvers, but I don't like Jade Phoenix Mage. Also the character is evil. What homebrewed PrCs do this? Anyways I need help with a build that looks something like this:
He's a battlefield commander. White Raven discipline is a must. He's not supposed to follow a deity, so I suppose that limits me to Warblade, unless someone has a homebrewed ToB class they can link me to.
At the same time however he is supposed to be fearsome in one on one combat. I'm thinking spiked chain. I'm not good with melee builds, what non-core feats make one more effective at melee in general (as opposed to overly specialized builds like an Uber Charger).
Finally he has spells. This is a secondary thing, and he uses them primarily for battlefield control.
Any thoughts? The PCs aren't exactly optimized, but I want this to be a good encounter (like a boss battle).

[Tavar]

Here's some options. Not going to look over the whole thread, but there's alot of PrC's there.

[The Glyphstone]

If you're okay with divine spellcasting instead, you can refluff the Ruby Knight Vindicator by removing the Wee Jas loyalties. Divine magic tends to be more self-buff focused anyways, which can be good for a 'boss'.

[Mongoose87]

I second the Ruby Knight Windicator.

EDIT: I realize he's not supposed to follow a god, but he could be a cleric of a cause or ethos, such as battle, or tactics.

[Drolyt]

Here's some options. Not going to look over the whole thread, but there's alot of PrC's there.

I'll check it out thanks.

If you're okay with divine spellcasting instead, you can refluff the Ruby Knight Vindicator by removing the Wee Jas loyalties. Divine magic tends to be more self-buff focused anyways, which can be good for a 'boss'.

I second the Ruby Knight Windicator.

He's supposed to be so full of himself as to think he's above the gods. Though maybe I can retool the Ruby Knight Vindicator to arcane. Maybe if I create some sort of abominable arcane cleric variant. Basically exactly like a cleric but arcane (minus armor check penalties of course). It's an NPC anyways, I could just give him wizard spells as I see fit.

EDIT: I realize he's not supposed to follow a god, but he could be a cleric of a cause or ethos, such as battle, or tactics.

I could just let him take cleric but worship himself.

[Tavar]

For divine, have him worship and Ideal, then. Perhaps Power?

[JoshuaZ]

Okay, I'm trying to come up with an NPC build that combines spellcasting and ToB maneuvers, but I don't like Jade Phoenix Mage. Also the character is evil. What homebrewed PrCs do this? Anyways I need help with a build that looks something like this:
He's a battlefield commander. White Raven discipline is a must. He's not supposed to follow a deity, so I suppose that limits me to Warblade, unless someone has a homebrewed ToB class they can link me to.
At the same time however he is supposed to be fearsome in one on one combat. I'm thinking spiked chain. I'm not good with melee builds, what non-core feats make one more effective at melee in general (as opposed to overly specialized builds like an Uber Charger).
Finally he has spells. This is a secondary thing, and he uses them primarily for battlefield control.
Any thoughts? The PCs aren't exactly optimized, but I want this to be a good encounter (like a boss battle).

Well, for the PrCs at least, there are a handful that progress both spellcasting and ToB initiator. I'm assuming from your comment that you intend to progress arcane spellcasting and will respond with that assumption.

The most obvious is Krimm's Ebon Phoenix Mage which is an evil version of the Jade Phoenix Mage. But if you don't like the Jade Phoenix, you may not end up liking this either. Krimm has also made the Blood Sage the Spirit Spellmaster again by Krimm(noticing a pattern here?) may be an option. It is the only one of the three that gains White Raven as one of its default disciplines. ErrantX made a remake of the Suel Arcanamach which progresses in ToB but also has its own spellcasting which could possibly do what you want.

Finally, two others to point out: First, Krimm's Occult Adversary increases binding rather than arcane spellcasting, but might do what you want. My Seeker of Lost Swords might be helpful. The Seeker is definitely on the darker side of the spectrum, using nasty necromancy to tear out the martial knowledge of the dead. The Seeker has a mechanic for adding additional maneuvers so although it isn't be default given White Raven, that shouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately, the Seeker hasn't been completely EACHED, so I can't guarantee that it is balanced as currently written.

[Drolyt]

Well, for the PrCs at least, there are a handful that progress both spellcasting and ToB initiator. I'm assuming from your comment that you intend to progress arcane spellcasting and will respond with that assumption.

The most obvious is Krimm's Ebon Phoenix Mage which is an evil version of the Jade Phoenix Mage. But if you don't like the Jade Phoenix, you may not end up liking this either. Krimm has also made the Blood Sage the Spirit Spellmaster again by Krimm(noticing a pattern here?) may be an option. It is the only one of the three that gains White Raven as one of its default disciplines. ErrantX made a remake of the Suel Arcanamach which progresses in ToB but also has its own spellcasting which could possibly do what you want.

Finally, two others to point out: First, Krimm's Occult Adversary increases binding rather than arcane spellcasting, but might do what you want. My Seeker of Lost Swords might be helpful. The Seeker is definitely on the darker side of the spectrum, using nasty necromancy to tear out the martial knowledge of the dead. The Seeker has a mechanic for adding additional maneuvers so although it isn't be default given White Raven, that shouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately, the Seeker hasn't been completely EACHED, so I can't guarantee that it is balanced as currently written.

Thanks. Krimm has an Eldritch Knight Redux that is more or less perfect. Your Seeker isn't quite what I'm looking for, but if I get some time latter this week I'll PEACH it.

[Drolyt]

New Question: Is there some way to increase your initiator level, like practiced spellcaster but for martial adepts?

[Draz74]

New Question: Is there some way to increase your initiator level, like practiced spellcaster but for martial adepts?

Nothing that the writers actually intended to work, no.

I assume you don't want to get into rules lawyering cheese, like a Swordsage 1/Warblade 1/Crusader 1/Major Bloodline 3 technically (arguably) having an initiator level of 8 in each class (at ECL 6).

[JoshuaZ]

Nothing that the writers actually intended to work, no.

I assume you don't want to get into rules lawyering cheese, like a Swordsage 1/Warblade 1/Crusader 1/Major Bloodline 3 technically (arguably) having an initiator level of 8 in each class (at ECL 6).

How does that work?

[Drolyt]

How does that work?

I'm guessing that it would be something like Swordsage Initiator Level = 4 (Swrodsage 1 + Bloodline 3) + 2 (Warblade 1 + Bloodline 3) + 2 (Crusader 1 + Bloodline 3).

[Master_Rahl22]

That's exactly right, Drolyt. The fact that all other classes give you 1/2 IL in your ToB classes pretty much already is a Practiced Spellcaster effect, and short of Bloodline cheese there is no other way to deal with this. However, with proper spacing of levels, you can pull off some nice tricks, like a Crusader 16/Warblade 4 that has the level 9 Devoted Spirit maneuver and a 5th level Iron Heart maneuver. The build I saw that did this got Crusader 8, Warblade 1, then alternated 2 Crusader and 1 Warblade for the rest of the levels, so the first Warblade level comes at IL 5 to get 3rd level Warblade maneuvers, and each subsequent level gives a higher level maneuvers because of the 2 Crusader levels in between them. *cue OOTS about up a level/down a level*

[Drolyt]

That's exactly right, Drolyt. The fact that all other classes give you 1/2 IL in your ToB classes pretty much already is a Practiced Spellcaster effect, and short of Bloodline cheese there is no other way to deal with this. However, with proper spacing of levels, you can pull off some nice tricks, like a Crusader 16/Warblade 4 that has the level 9 Devoted Spirit maneuver and a 5th level Iron Heart maneuver. The build I saw that did this got Crusader 8, Warblade 1, then alternated 2 Crusader and 1 Warblade for the rest of the levels, so the first Warblade level comes at IL 5 to get 3rd level Warblade maneuvers, and each subsequent level gives a higher level maneuvers because of the 2 Crusader levels in between them. *cue OOTS about up a level/down a level*

Alright then, but how about this: If you take a prestige class (such as eternal blade or master of nine) that increases initiator level, do you have to choose one class for it to increase or would it increase all martial adept classes you have? For example, would a Warblade 5/Swordsage 5/Crusader 5/Master of Nine 5 have initiator level 15 in each class?

[Darrin]

Alright then, but how about this: If you take a prestige class (such as eternal blade or master of nine) that increases initiator level, do you have to choose one class for it to increase or would it increase all martial adept classes you have? For example, would a Warblade 5/Swordsage 5/Crusader 5/Master of Nine 5 have initiator level 15 in each class?

Yep. You calculate the IL for each base class separately, but Master of Nine adds its full 5 levels to each one. So Warblade 5 + Master of Nine 5 + 5 (half of the non-Warblade levels) = 15. Same with Swordsage and Crusader, 5 + 5 + (10/2). See ToB p. 39:

"Prestige classes work a little differently. In most cases, you add the full prestige class level to your martial adept level to determine your initiator level. See the prestige class descriptions in Chapter 5 for details."

Also, see the text in each PrC under "Maneuvers", which says:

"You add your full {PrC name} levels to your initiator level to determine your total initiator level and your highest-level maneuvers known."

The rules don't explicitly address having multiple base classes + PrCs, but I believe there are Ask the Sage responses that support this.

Note: The PrC levels are added to all base classes for calculating IL, but only advance the maneuvers of one base class, which you must select when you take the PrC. As per the rules on ToB p. 105: "If you have levels in two or more martial adept standard classes (for example, you are a multiclass swordsage/warblade), you must decide to which of your existing martial adept classes the new maneuvers known or maneuvers readied apply."

[Sophismata]

I believe you can choose at the time of acquiring the manoeuvre or stance, rather than when you take the prestige class.

As for the OP, I'd recommend Ruby Knight Vindicator, without the Wee-Jas requirement, and having the NPC take Ur-Priest to qualify. Seems to fit his fluff nicely, and can be quite powerful to boot.

If he's really high level, consider Crusader / Cloistered Cleric / Ruby Knight Vindicator / Ordained Champion.

[Drolyt]

I believe you can choose at the time of acquiring the manoeuvre or stance, rather than when you take the prestige class.

As for the OP, I'd recommend Ruby Knight Vindicator, without the Wee-Jas requirement, and having the NPC take Ur-Priest to qualify. Seems to fit his fluff nicely, and can be quite powerful to boot.

If he's really high level, consider Crusader / Cloistered Cleric / Ruby Knight Vindicator / Ordained Champion.

What's Ordained Champion?