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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Jul 2007

    Default [4e] Steampunk Armor

    So, I'm working on converting some stuff from various steampunk settings, and I could use a critique on a version of the Man-o-War armor from Iron Kingdoms/WARMACHINE:

    Man-o-War Armor
    This bulky suit of plate armor has an array of pistons and mechanisms beneath its plating that can turn a trained user into an engine of destruction...at the risk of cooking him alive with the heat of its boiler.
    Level 15+ Mechanikal Item
    Level 15: +3, 25000 gp
    Level 20: +4, 125000 gp
    Level 25: +5, 625000 gp
    Level 30: +6, 3125000 gp
    Armor (Special)
    Enhancement: AC
    Special: In order to be proficient with this armor, a character must have the "Man-o-War" feat. It has a +8 armor bonus, a -2 speed penalty, and a -4 armor check penalty. A non-proficient character can wear the armor, but cannot use the powers, and loses a healing surge for every 5 minutes they wear the armor. It takes a short rest to don or remove the armor.
    Property: You gain resist all 5. You are slowed. You are Large-sized, but you use Medium-sized weaponry.
    Power (Encounter): Minor Action. You are not slowed due to wearing the armor for 5 minutes or until the end of the encounter. When the effect ends, lose a healing surge.
    Power (Encounter): Minor Action. Gain a +2 bonus to Strength-based attack and damage rolls and a +5 bonus to Strength-based skill checks and ability checks for 5 minutes or until the end of the encounter. When the effect ends, lose a healing surge.
    Power (Encounter): Minor Action. You can wield Large-sized weaponry until the end of the encounter. You can also wield two-handed Medium-sized weaponry in one hand until the end of the encounter. When the effect ends, lose a healing surge.
    Level 20+: +11 armor bonus
    Level 25+: Resist all 10.
    Level 30: +14 armor bonus

    So, I think I've gotten all the fluff effects of the armor:
    Big, slow, and bulky.
    Tough as nails.
    Requires special training to use.
    Gives a trained user prodigous strength.
    Can cook the user alive if overtaxed. (Most players that would want this armor would have 8-12 healing surges; If they use a healing surge for healing every encounter, they have 2-3 encounters at full capacity. After that, they start losing HP after each fight in which they use it even slightly.

    I have two questions now: Did I miss any qualities of the armor? And is it remotely balanced? I'm planning on throwing a soldier wearing some at my players, and I'd like the Paladin to be able to use it on the off-chance that they can take out the soldier without destroying the armor.

    Oh, and here's the proficiency feat:
    Man-o-War
    Requirements: Paragon Tier, Str 21, Con 19, Proficient with Plate Armor.
    Benefit: You become proficient with Man-o-War armor.
    Last edited by kieza; 2010-02-02 at 01:23 AM. Reason: Took some advice

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Dec 2007

    Default Re: [4e] Steampunk Armor

    The feat tax is prohibitively costly, especially for a Paragon-tier feat. Being Large without the benefits thereof is stupidly over-expensive. The powers should be Encounter powers rather than At-Wills due to their duration. Drop the Resist All and have it scale its AC bonus like normal masterwork Plate, or have the Resist All scale alongside the RA-armor from Adventurer's Vault.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: [4e] Steampunk Armor

    Not sure of the how it would work within the 4e rules set but the basis for the RP version of the Steam Armour gives you a Added layer of HP (attacks deal wounds to the Armour 1st then you in addition resisting some)
    Thankyou to NEOPhyte for the Techpriest Engiseer

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    take this virtual +1.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Jul 2008

    Default Re: [4e] Steampunk Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon View Post
    Not sure of the how it would work within the 4e rules set but the basis for the RP version of the Steam Armour gives you a Added layer of HP (attacks deal wounds to the Armour 1st then you in addition resisting some)
    It could give temp HP instead of resistance? I'm not sure.

    Do you need to fuel the armor? I believe that most things in IK run on coal and, being steam powered, consume water like crazy. I always felt that steamjacks and the steam armor were a little strange in terms of logistics. I imagine they are carted in while the boilers get working and then dumped from their carriages once they're close enough to engage the enemy, while the porters flee or engage the enemy as light infantry alongside the heavies.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Jul 2007

    Default Re: [4e] Steampunk Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    Being Large without the benefits thereof is stupidly over-expensive.
    I've heard arguments to the contrary; that being Large is a massive bonus for melee characters due to the increased control area, and this gives them that. Anyways, it's part of the flavor of the armor. I suppose I could give it for free and keep the "wield 2h weapons as 1h" as a power; but that makes it better than a typical feat, I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon
    Not sure of the how it would work within the 4e rules set but the basis for the RP version of the Steam Armour gives you a Added layer of HP (attacks deal wounds to the Armour 1st then you in addition resisting some)
    Yeah, that's the idea behind all armor really. My group at least just pretends that they get more gold than I actually hand out, and the difference is what they have to spend on repairing battle damage. It's the best compromise we've come up with short of rebuilding the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asbestos
    Do you need to fuel the armor? I believe that most things in IK run on coal and, being steam powered, consume water like crazy. I always felt that steamjacks and the steam armor were a little strange in terms of logistics. I imagine they are carted in while the boilers get working and then dumped from their carriages once they're close enough to engage the enemy, while the porters flee or engage the enemy as light infantry alongside the heavies.
    Yeah, actually. I used the regular pricing model for ease of comparison, but my system for Mechanika goes like this: mechanikal items cost 60% as much as normal items, but fueling them costs .8% of the cost of a normal item for each encounter in which they're active. They're just as expensive as a normal item if you use them all of the time for 5 levels.

    EDIT: That's the main problem with mechanika, actually; you don't want to be over-reliant on it if you're away from civilization too long, since you can't resupply easily.
    Last edited by kieza; 2010-02-02 at 12:42 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Dec 2007

    Default Re: [4e] Steampunk Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by kieza View Post
    I've heard arguments to the contrary; that being Large is a massive bonus for melee characters due to the increased control area, and this gives them that.
    Large size doesn't give you +1 Reach over being Medium unless it's explicitly specified. Becoming Large without a Reach or weapon size increase provides almost exclusively a larger target size... which is something listed under "big tactical mistake." Although you flank targets more easily, you also get flanked easily, and although you threaten more targets with Close Burst powers, the only time that really matters is when you're surrounded by that many more targets... and you don't want to be surrounded by 12 enemies at the same time, especially when your armor provides a much smaller AC bonus than Gith Plate (or Legion, War, Tarrasque, or God -plate) of the same level.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Jul 2007

    Default Re: [4e] Steampunk Armor

    Yeah, I guess that's a good point. Plus, we are talking about an item and feat here; for that level of investment it needs to be good. Here's a revised version (plus fuel costs):

    Man-o-War Armor
    This bulky suit of plate armor has an array of pistons and mechanisms beneath its plating that can turn a trained user into an engine of destruction...at the risk of cooking him alive with the heat of its boiler.
    Level 15+ Mechanikal Item
    Level 15: +3, 15000 gp, 200 gp per encounter
    Level 20: +4, 75000 gp, 1000 gp per encounter
    Level 25: +5, 375000 gp, 5000 gp per encounter
    Level 30: +6, 1875000 gp, 25000 gp per encounter
    Armor (Special)
    Enhancement: AC
    Special: In order to be proficient with this armor, a character must have the "Man-o-War" feat. It has a +11 armor bonus, a -2 speed penalty, and a -4 armor check penalty. A non-proficient character can wear the armor, but cannot use the powers.
    Property: You gain resist all 5. You are slowed. You become Large-sized, and can wield Large weaponry. You can also wield Medium two-handed weaponry in one hand.
    Power (Encounter): Minor Action. You are not slowed due to wearing the armor for 5 minutes or until the end of the encounter. When the effect ends, lose a healing surge.
    Power (Encounter): Minor Action. Gain a +2 bonus to Strength-based attack and damage rolls and a +5 bonus to Strength-based skill checks and ability checks for 5 minutes or until the end of the encounter. When the effect ends, lose a healing surge.
    Level 20+: +12 armor bonus
    Level 25+: +13 armor bonus, resist all 10.
    Level 30: +14 armor bonus

    Man-o-War
    Requirements: Paragon Tier, Str 21, Con 19, Proficient with Plate Armor.
    Benefit: You become proficient with Man-o-War armor.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

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    Jul 2010

    Default Re: [4e] Steampunk Armor

    One problem I see with it is that wielding 2 handed weapons in one hand would probably be broken for a duel wielding ranger, because you could have a Mordenkrad or an executioners axe in each hand.

    I do like the idea though, and I think I might use it for Eberron campaigns. I think it could be cool to have this armor gain access to at least some of the Warforged Components, but I suppose that depends on whether you are playing in Eberron or not.
    Last edited by aparliment; 2010-07-10 at 05:05 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #9

    Default Re: [4e] Steampunk Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by aparliment View Post
    One problem I see with it is that wielding 2 handed weapons in one hand would probably be broken for a duel wielding ranger, because you could have a Mordenkrad or an executioners axe in each hand.
    Let the ranger spend four feats and lock himself into a str/con build.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default Re: [4e] Steampunk Armor

    Actually, Rangers as written could not weild two mordenkrads with this armour.

    Because they can only weild One handed weapons as if they were off-hand. Whilst weilding a Two Handed weapon as if it were one handed, it is still a two handed weapon.

    So, by the rules, that situation is already taken care of. They could still pack a mordenkrad and a longsword or something though, I guess.

    Or hey, Dwarf Mech rider would open up Dwarven Weapon Training, giving you the Mordenkrad in your main hand and a Crag-Hammer in your other.

    A bit spicy, I guess.
    Last edited by Tiki Snakes; 2010-07-10 at 06:09 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Jul 2007

    Default Re: [4e] Steampunk Armor

    Since this thread is already resurrected, I might as well mention how this worked out: The players got one set of functional armor off of a dead trooper, but never actually used it. The paladin in the party hung on to it, on the off chance that he ever needed to be really resilient for a short period, but didn't wear it because he disliked being Large when fighting in cramped quarters (which was happening a lot at the time). Eventually, that character died, and the player's replacement character was a dwarf Fighter with enough healing surges that he might have been able to benefit, but the campaign only lasted for two more sessions after that, and he never had a chance to pick it up from where the Paladin had been storing it.

    Had the paladin actually used it, he intended to switch from a Medium Longsword/Shield combo to a Medium Glaive/Shield combo (the glaive was his backup weapon). So, he would have wound up getting resist 5, an extra square of reach and +.5 damage per [W] in exchange for a little speed and maneuverability, 1 damage (lower enhancement bonus) and a couple of healing surges per encounter. He didn't think it was worth it.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

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    Jul 2010

    Default Re: [4e] Steampunk Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Homeslice View Post
    Let the ranger spend four feats and lock himself into a str/con build.
    Ya, I forgot that they needed plate armor proficiency, so your right it totally would not be worth it.

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