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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    The Luck Child



    "You think I'm great or legendary? Just lucky, my good sir." -Morth, a Luck Child of Ebberon

    A Luck Child is someone who is so lucky that it seems the gods themselves take time to care and protect this person. They seem to avoid trouble just because of luck.
    "...a child had been born, reported his spies, a Luck Child, poor as penance, rich as snow, the seventh son of a seventh son." - The Storyteller


    Class Skills
    The Luck Child's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex; Armor Check Penalty); Bluff (Cha); Diplomacy (Cha); Listen (Wis); Perform (Cha); Search (Int); Sense Motive (Wis); Sleight Of Hand (Dex; Trained Only; Armor Check Penalty); Spot (Wis); Swim (Str; Armor Check Penalty); Tumble (Dex; Trained Only; Armor Check Penalty); Use Rope (Dex)
    Skills Points at Each Level: 6 + Cha

    Luck Child
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    | Lucky Charm; Bonus Luck Feat; Luck Beyond the Average; Lucky Knack; These Things Just Happen

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    | Lucky Weapon (+1 to hit); Jack of All Trades

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    | Additional Luck Reroll; Fortunate Dealings (To hit); These Things Just Happen

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    | Bonus Luck Feat; Fateful Intervention

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    | More Luck then Skill; Lucky Weapon (+1 to hit and damage); Aura of Luck (+1)

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    | Even the Odds; Evasion; These Things Just Happen

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    | Additional Luck Reroll;

    8th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    | Bonus Luck Feat

    9th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    | Lucky Weapon (+2 to hit and damage; Power Critical); These Things Just Happen

    10th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    | Double or Nothing; Uncanny Dodge; Aura of Luck (+2)

    11th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    | Additional Luck Reroll; Fortunate Dealings (Damage)

    12th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    | Bonus Luck Feat; Lucky Number; Lucky Dodge; These Things Just Happen

    13th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    | Lucky Weapon (+3 to hit and damage; Keen)

    14th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    | Lucky Shot; Repercussions of the Lucky

    15th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    | Improved Evasion; Aura of Luck (+4); Good Reputation; These Things Just Happen

    16th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    | Bonus Luck Feat

    17th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    | Lucky Weapon (Vorpal)

    18th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    | High Roller; Fortunate Dealings (Skills); These Things Just Happen

    19th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    | Improved Fateful Intervention

    20th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    | Bonus Luck Feat; Master of Fate; Aura of Luck (+5)[/table]

    Hit Dice: d8

    Weapon Proficiencies: A Luck Child is proficient with simple weapons and light armor.



    Lucky Charm (Ex): Some people foolishly believe having an object with them will bring good luck. This is true for the Luck Child. When you take your first level of Luck Child, you must pick an object, such as a coin or necklace or even a helmet, to be your lucky charm. As long you it is on your person, you have a stacking +1 luck bonus to AC, to hit, damage, skills, and saves. If a Luck Child were to be separated from her lucky charm, she is stricken by much bad luck. She loses her aforementioned bonuses, she has a -1 luck penalty to AC, to hit, damage, skills, and saves, and she can't use any of your abilities from the Luck Child class.

    Bonus Luck Feat: A Luck Child gets a bonus luck feat at levels 1, 4, and every fourth level thereafter.

    Luck Beyond the Average: A Luck Child is based on luck alone. Luck to help you, and luck to hurt your opponents. All luck bonuses affecting a Luck Child stack.

    Lucky Knack
    : Your skills don't come from your brain or brawn, but from your almost otherworldly luck. Your skill points from Luck Child levels are based on Charisma instead of intelligence.


    These Things Just Happen (Sp): At levels 1, 3, and every third level after, choose one of the following abilities, to a total of 7 at 18th level. Activating one of These Things is an immediate action, but requires no physical action on your part, and no material components - you hope they happen, and they do. (DC = 10 + 1/2Luck Child levels + Charisma Modifier if applicable. Caster level = 1/2Luck Child levels.)


    {table] Ability | Uses a day | Function
    Pratfall | 3 | Functions as the spell Grease, except that it lasts for only one round. The Balance check DC is the same as your standard save DC.
    Soft Landing | 3 | Functions exactly as the spell Feather Fall.
    It Came Out of Nowhere | 1 | Functions as Summon Nature's Ally X, where X is your caster level.
    I'll Get You This Time | 3 | Functions as True Strike.
    It Was Open When I Got There | 3 | Functions as the spell Knock.
    And Then I Found Five Gold | 3 | Functions as Charm Person, except that you must converse with the target for at least one minute first.
    Wasn't So Bad | 3 | (Minimum level 3) Functions as Resist Energy, for 1 round per level.
    There You Are | 3 | (Minimum level 3) Functions as See Invisibility, but for 1 round per level.
    On a Clear Day | 3 | (Minimum level 6) Functions as the spell Call Lightning, except only one bolt, which strikes immediately.
    Tougher Than I Thought | 3 | (Minimum level 9) Functions as Stoneskin, but only lasts 1 round per level.
    A Sign From Above | 3 | (Minimum level 12) Functions as the spell Call Lightning Storm, except only one bolt, which strikes immediately.
    Thought It Had Me For Sure | 3 | (Minimum level 15) Functions as Ethereal Jaunt, but only lasts one round. Dismissable at will.
    I Only Touched It, I Swear | 3 | (Minimum level 18) Functions as Mordenkainen's Disjunction, except only for one object or spell that you are touching. [/table]


    Lucky Weapon (Ex): Much like her lucky charm, a Luck Child will usually have a weapon that she is very much attached to, and it attunes to her luck. At first level, the Luck Child has a +1 luck bonus to hit while wielding her lucky weapon.

    At level 5, the Luck Child gains a +1 luck bonus to damage in addition to the +1 luck bonus to hit while wielding her lucky weapon.

    At level 9, the Luck Child seems to get more luck hits in then the normal fighter, giving her the affects of the Power Critical feat. The luck bonuses given to her earlier are also increased to +2/+2

    At level 13, the Luck Child's ability to hit enemies' weak spots is even more greatly improved. The Luck Child's lucky weapon is now considered keen for all intents and purposes, and has the to hit and damage bonuses increased to +3.

    At level 17, the Luck Child's weapon of choice seems to score some of the luckiest hits anyone has ever seen. The Luck Child may treat her lucky weapon as vorpal, and the to hit and damage bonuses increase to +4.

    Jack of All Trades: At second level, a Luck Child gains Jack of All Trades even if she doesn't meet the requirements.

    Additional Luck Reroll: The Luck Child gains an additional luck reroll at levels 3, 7, and 11.

    Fortunate Dealings (Ex):The Luck Child learns to fight fire with fortune, making her seem like a skilled adventurer when she's just lucky. At level 3, a Luck Child can add his Charisma modifier as a luck bonus to hit.

    At 11th level, she is known for the most lucky assaults, letting her add her Charisma modifier as a luck bonus to damage.

    At 18th level, the Luck Child's abilities become so lucky that she can rely on luck to bring her through. She may add her Charisma modifier as a luck bonus to skills.

    Fateful Intervention (Su): Some say the gods smile upon the Luck Child's very existence. By expending a luck reroll, a Luck Child of 4th level or higher can add his Charisma modifier as a luck bonus to his saves for a number of rounds equal to Luck Child level/2 rounded down.

    At level 19, the Luck Child's divine protection extends to death itself. If an attack would kill the Luck Child, she may make a check (D20+Luck Child Level+Cha modifier) against a DC equal the damage of the hit. If you succeed, the attack misses. Otherwise, treat the attack normally.

    More Luck then Skill (Ex): Some people criticize the Luck Child for lacking any real skill, and who can blame them? At level 5, a Luck Child can expend a luck reroll to add his Charisma modifier to his skill rolls for a number of rounds equal to Luck Child level/2.

    Aura of Luck (Su): Sometimes, the luck of the Luck Child extends to even his friends, granting her allies within 30 feet a +1 stacking luck bonus to skills, Ac, and damage at level 5. This bonus increases to +2 at level 10, +4 at level 15, and to +5 at 20.

    Even the Odds (Su): Sometimes, the odds are against even the Luck Child, but her luck doesn't completely abandon her. If a Luck Child of level 6 or higher would have to make a check or attack that you would fail on an 11 or less, you get a +1 luck bonus to that attack or check.

    Evasion (Ex): At 6th level, if a Luck Child makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a Luck Child is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless Luck Child does not gain the benefit of evasion.

    Double or Nothing (Su): Sometimes, the fate of a battle can rest on a single attack, and the Luck Child plays a game of chance with fate itself. When a Luck child would make an attack roll that would hit, he can expend two luck rerolls to attempt a double or nothing. The luck child then flips a coin. If it lands heads up, the attack deals double damage and the Luck Child may chose to flip the coin again without expending any luck rerolls. If it lands tails up however, the attack is considered a critical failure.

    Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A Luck Child never seems to be surprised by attacks. Some say that they are just perceptive, while others believe they are just lucky enough to move slightly before they are hit. Starting at 4th level, a Luck Child can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a Luck Child already has uncanny dodge from a different class she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.

    Lucky Dodge (Ex): Sometimes, it seems that a Luck Child is always elsewhere when the attack would hit and attacks happen to miss for the oddest reasons. A Luck Child of level 12 or higher may add his Charisma modifier to his AC while wearing Light armor or no armor. These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or while the Luck Child is Flatfooted. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless.

    Lucky Number (Su): Some people claim to have a number that signifies luck for them, and Luck Children are no different. When a Luck Child reaches level 12, she chooses a number from 2 to 18. Anytime that you roll that number it is considered a natural 20 for all intents in purposes.

    Lucky Shot (Ex): A Luck Child isn't known for great strength or dizzying intellect, but for her amazing luck. At level 14, the Luck Child gains the ability to expend four luck rerolls to make his next attack considered a natural twenty, confirmed critical, and you may add your Charisma modifier to your damage before critical multiplier.

    Repercussions of the Lucky (Su): Not only does the Child of Luck radiate luck for her allies, she radiates bad luck to her enemies. Enemies within 30 feet of the Luck Child have a -5 penalty to Ac, Damage, and skill checks.

    Improved Evasion (Ex): Even with her amazing ability to be somewhere else when disaster strikes, there is always room for improvement. This ability works like evasion, except that while the Luck Child of level 15 still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks henceforth she takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless Luck Child does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

    Good Reputation: A Luck Child and his compatriots are regarded better then other people, whether because they are just luckily likable, or the person knows the bad luck that can befall the Luck Child's enemies. The Luck Child and her compatriots get a luck bonus to their Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate equal to the Luck Child's Charisma Modifier. (The bonus stacks with other luck bonuses.)

    High Roller (Su): The Luck Child can grow so attuned to luck that she can do the impossible with her luck. A Luck Child may treat any die roll as 1 higher then it really is. (Example: If Morth the Luck Child rolls a 15, he can treat it as a 15 or 16. If he rolled a 19, he could count it as a 19 or natural 20.) You also may choose to take the original roll after you use a luck reroll. This doesn't restore the reroll use, you just ignore the reroll.

    Master of Fate (Su): The Luck Child has grown so attuned to luck, chance, and fate that they have become one. The Luck Child may add his Charisma modifier as a luck bonus to AC, to hit, damage, saves, and skills. The Luck Child also may expend a luck reroll to let another ally reroll a roll the Luck Child could reroll herself.



    Epic Child of Luck
    {table=head]Level|Bonus Epic Attack Bonus|Bonus Epic Save|Special

    21st|
    +1
    |
    +0
    | Bonus Feat

    22nd|
    +1
    |
    +1
    | Improved Lucky Dodge

    23rd|
    +2
    |
    +1
    | Bonus Feat

    24th|
    +2
    |
    +2
    | Improved Repercussions of Luck

    25th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    | Bonus Feat

    26th|
    +3
    |
    +3
    | Aura of Luck (+10)

    27th|
    +4
    |
    +3
    | Bonus Feat

    28th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    | Lucky Weapon (+10 to hit and Damage)

    29th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    | Bonus Feat

    30th|
    +5
    |
    +5
    | Avatar of Fate[/table]

    Bonus Feat: You may choose an additional feat at level 21 and every other level thereafter.

    Improved Lucky Dodge (Ex): Your extraordinary ability to be somewhere your foes' weapons aren't is even greater now. At level 22, a Luck Child can choose to expend a luck reroll to add his Charisma modifier as a luck bonus to AC.

    Improved Repercussions of Luck (Su): You amazing luck is only rivaled by your opponents' unluckiness. The penalty induced by this ability is increased to -10.

    Aura of Luck (Su): You give even greater luck to your allies, increasing your aura's bonus to +10.

    Avatar of Luck: You have become so entwined with fate that you transcend it's limits. You now may expend three luck rerolls to choose the result of a roll you could reroll. This ability can be used on a targets' roll by spending 6 rerolls instead. (Ex: Morth has to roll a d20 for an attack on a black dragon. He can expend three rerolls to choose 1-20 as the result of that roll. When it's the black dragon's turn, Morth can spend 6 rerolls to change a black dragon's attack roll, thus avoiding the attack.)

    PLAYING A LUCK CHILD
    Combat: A Luck Child will rely on lucky avoidance and his lucky weapon to bring him out on top.
    Advancement: A Luck Child could easily multi-class into other classes without problem, and many take levels of Fortune's Friend to further their astounding luck.

    LUCK CHILDREN IN THE WORLD
    "Can you believe it? He's won at least one hundred games of High Roll, and the dice are loaded none the less!" - Greetz, a card shark at the Waycrest Tavern in Stormreach.

    The Luck Child comes in two forms. One whom knows he has more then just luck, to the point that he does all he can to stretch his luck, and the one who just think he is pretty lucky.
    Daily Life: Most Luck Children live just like anyone else.

    Any tips or improvements you can think of? I'd love some feedback.

    Edit: I added the Luck Beyond the Average ability to let the abilities stack and Fortunate Dealings to make it an all around more decent class.
    Edit2: Thanks to the idea of Paddyfool, I made his skill points based on Charisma.
    Edit3: These Things Just Happen credit all goes to Itastelikelove for his amazing creativeness!
    Last edited by Morth; 2010-02-14 at 10:48 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    To me, it looks severely underpowered. You fell into the fighter trap: Lots of bonus feats.

    Especially at low levels, there is very little that the Luck Child can do that other classes cannot, with sufficient feat investment. THere are some unique abilities, sure, but combat options are very limited.

    Look at the options they have: reroll some stuff, +tiny to hit with a simple weapon, 3+int skills (you can't have this, btw), little melee (d6 HD is ouch. It only works with the rogue because their entire focus is on sneaking. It might work, but I'll get to that in a sec.) The biggest class feature is not dying. In, for example, an open fight, you use all of your class abilities and they basically just make you not die quite as quickly. Maybe make more of the abilities either more useful or usable more often.

    This is, of course, primarily from a combat perspective. Role-playing, sure, it's interesting, but you can get almost the same feel by just getting the luck feats.

    Good start though
    Last edited by FlamingKobold; 2010-02-02 at 11:37 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Zaydos's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    Okay reading over it:
    1) 3 + Int skills per level is highly irregular and I'd say knock it up to 4 +.
    2) Note that bonuses of the same type usually don't stack and luck normally isn't an exception. I'd note that it is an exception if you intended it to be (otherwise their lucky charm and lucky weapon don't stack making the latter useless until 9th level) and also how it interacts with other normal luck bonuses.

    I'd say it seems like at low levels it might keep up with fighter, and be past monk, but it quickly looks like it will be a subpar class compared even to the feat combos that fighter can pull off when optimized. Unoptimized it might be better than an unoptimized fighter but that's not saying much. I'd say it's actually a little weak, although the 4 luck rerolls for auto nat 20 and vorpal weapon would be fun (say bye bye to your head ).

    Edit: Oh yeah, their capstone is fun and fairly powerful (Cha to almost everything) and does its AC bonus stack with their first level one? Also as is one of the biggest uses of the class would probably be a 1 level dip for Cha based characters for Cha to AC and Battledancer (Dragon Magazine Compendium) does that better.

    Must say the concept is interesting, though.
    Last edited by Zaydos; 2010-02-03 at 12:13 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Zexion's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    For Lucky Number, isn't choosing 1 automatically the best, because you get to ignore critical failures?
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Dante & Vergil's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    I see so many luck bonuses in this class that some of the class abilities will overlap and make some of the other features obsolete. You should add a stipulation that should say the luck bonuses stack with each other, at the very least with other class abilities.
    The class looks good other than that and what FlamingKobald and Zaydos said, at least for me. I think there is something for those of us who just have bad luck when we roll now.
    Last edited by Dante & Vergil; 2010-02-03 at 12:34 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zexion View Post
    For Lucky Number, isn't choosing 1 automatically the best, because you get to ignore critical failures?
    It's basically the ability to remove the 5% chance of critical failure, or give you an additional 5% at critical success.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    Saves are messed. They should be +12 on the last line.
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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei221 View Post
    Saves are messed. They should be +12 on the last line.
    Thanks man. :) I didn't notice till now.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    Lots of passive abilities, not that many active. Overall, a Luck Child seems an OKish combatant, and good at staying alive, but not really good at anything else. Call it Tier 4 for power. But in Gestalt, this could be very useful indeed. Practically every Sorceror out there would be tempted by Luck Child 1, and lots of high Chr builds might be tempted by taking this all the way to 20 on the other side.

    One thing that might be tempting would be a bit more of a choice of abilities - there's various ways to be lucky. One nice choice that could be fun to add would be the choice of a good luck aura (perhaps saying each ally within 30ft gets a +1 luck bonus to saves, and the luck child can grant 1 ally within 30ft per day a reroll), or a bad luck aura (-1 to saves for foes within 30ft, and the luck child can force one opponent within 30ft per day to reroll once). EDIT: Or alternatively, the rerolls/forced rerolls for allies/foes might run off the existing total of rerolls per day.

    EDIT: Another criticism might be that this class is kind of frontloaded. Perhaps one or two of the abilities from level one could be spread further along?
    Last edited by paddyfool; 2010-02-03 at 08:30 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morth View Post
    It's basically the ability to remove the 5% chance of critical failure, or give you an additional 5% at critical success.
    There is no such thing as a critical failure unless you houserule it. There are only automatic failures, and they only apply towards saving throws and attack rolls. If you roll a 1 on those, you were probably going to fail anyway unless you were fighting Shadows or something.

    I think that choosing 1 as your lucky number is probably the worst choice.

    Other thoughts:
    -It doesn't have enough skill points to be a decent skillmonkey. It also lacks Trapfinding or Use Magic Device.
    -It doesn't have enough offensive power or hp to be a front-liner. Maybe the vorpal ability helps, but it's at such a late level.
    -Not enough variety in its abilities to provide decent support.

    This is essentially a class that exists to take up space in the party and try not to die. It doesn't really have a niche. It's pretty good at avoiding death, not great at it, but that's not something to be proud of.
    Last edited by UglyPanda; 2010-02-03 at 10:30 AM.
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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    Yeah... I'm starting to wonder if this might not be Tier 5 rather than 4 (although I maintain the opinion that this would suddenly become very useful in Gestalt alongside any Chr-based class with decent active abilities, particularly the Sorceror, giving him a better hit die, a better BAB, two better saves, those re-rolls and making him considerably harder to hurt).

    Probably the simplest fix would be to make it more of a skill-monkey... 6 skill points +Chr/level, perhaps (with a first-level ability that allows Chr rather than Int per level for levels of Luck Child), with a better list of class skills and a few abilities nicked from the Factotum, but having Chr added to stuff rather than Int.

  12. - Top - End - #12
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    Ashtagon's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    This feels like it should be a background feat tree, similar to the "blood" feats that exist for some sorcerer builds. I read it and I think, "ok kiddo, you were born lucky. But what did you*do* with your life?"

    People make a career out of fighting, or sneaking, or scholarly studies or praying. It's conceivable that there's money to be had doing those, or any of the other classes -- they are something the character does. "Luck child" seems to be more about what the character is.
    Last edited by Ashtagon; 2010-02-03 at 10:57 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    My question is, keeping with the theme of luck and rerolls, how could I make it better? I'm open to suggestions.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    Much as I love the tone of this, I'd say "make it a prestige class", except that there are at least three already (Fortune's Friend, Fatespinner, and Luckstealer).

    What you could do, however, is to look at the Factotum. Their abilities are based off a single modifier (Int), but they can do more with it, on the whole. And a real Cha-based skillmonkey could be tempting... especially if you made the skill points per level in this class "6+Cha" rather than "X+Int" (somewhat controversial, since I don't know of any other class than unhooks skills from Int). Then consider... a lot of the abilities you have from luck are basically self-buff. But by being charmed by fortune, some of your good luck could also rub off on your allies, or bad luck could beset your foes.

    Some low-level casting could be the kind of "lucky" character whose luck is really a sort of passive psionic ability (I think the Marvel character "Domino" is like that), or spontaneous arcane/divine caster ability. Building levels in this class could grant luck-like abilities, but also allow some psionic power progression (or arcane progression or divine progression), giving you a greater range of options. Probably you'd want to cap what you get at 4th or 6th level spells/powers... and do quite a bit to ensure that what you build is quite distinct from a Bard.

    The hardest fit would be a real melee character. Possibly you could tie this on to the Swashbuckler chassis... maybe swap out the Int-based stuff for Cha-based stuff, and give them more juicy abilities beyond 3rd level (the level where the poor old Swash becomes mostly pointless). I'd suggest looking at Tome of Battle as well, except that I know nada about it, really.

    Do any of these sound tempting?

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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by paddyfool View Post
    Much as I love the tone of this, I'd say "make it a prestige class", except that there are at least three already (Fortune's Friend, Fatespinner, and Luckstealer).

    What you could do, however, is to look at the Factotum. Their abilities are based off a single modifier (Int), but they can do more with it, on the whole. And a real Cha-based skillmonkey could be tempting... especially if you made the skill points per level in this class "6+Cha" rather than "X+Int" (somewhat controversial, since I don't know of any other class than unhooks skills from Int). Then consider... a lot of the abilities you have from luck are basically self-buff. But by being charmed by fortune, some of your good luck could also rub off on your allies, or bad luck could beset your foes.

    Some low-level casting could be the kind of "lucky" character whose luck is really a sort of passive psionic ability (I think the Marvel character "Domino" is like that), or spontaneous arcane/divine caster ability. Building levels in this class could grant luck-like abilities, but also allow some psionic power progression (or arcane progression or divine progression), giving you a greater range of options. Probably you'd want to cap what you get at 4th or 6th level spells/powers... and do quite a bit to ensure that what you build is quite distinct from a Bard.

    The hardest fit would be a real melee character. Possibly you could tie this on to the Swashbuckler chassis... maybe swap out the Int-based stuff for Cha-based stuff, and give them more juicy abilities beyond 3rd level (the level where the poor old Swash becomes mostly pointless). I'd suggest looking at Tome of Battle as well, except that I know nada about it, really.

    Do any of these sound tempting?
    Thanks for the ideas. I think I have an idea on how to improve it. I had some more preliminary ideas, but thought that it would unbalance the class by giving them too much. The basis of this character is a Charisma based Jack of All Trades style character with a inclination towards survivability.

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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    You're welcome! And don't beat yourself up - what you've built here is fun and thematic, but it is Tier 5. IMHO, you can bring it up to Tier 4 either by giving it full BAB, a D10 hit die, and martial weapon/armour/shield proficiencies, making it a fortune-blessed tank (which would likely then lend itself especially well to gish builds EDIT - probably you'd best put off the Cha to AC until a later level if doing this), or by giving it UMD and some kind of spontaneous casting/manifesting progression to 4th level. Alternatively, you can bring it up to Tier 3 either by giving it abilities and skillmonkeyness similar to that of the Factotum, or by giving it UMD & spontaneous casting/manifesting progression to 6th level. On the whole, I prefer the casting/manifesting, because that would be slightly less prone to gestalt abuse (either that, or specifically stating that this class is not appropriate for gestalt).
    Last edited by paddyfool; 2010-02-04 at 05:21 AM.

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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    Hey any thoughts on an epic progression? The reason I ask is because its a hobby of mine to play random Home brewed classes and the campaign I'm in will soon be going epic.

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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by AustontheGreat1 View Post
    Hey any thoughts on an epic progression? The reason I ask is because its a hobby of mine to play random Home brewed classes and the campaign I'm in will soon be going epic.
    Haven't taken to much time to think into it, but give me a day or two and I'll look into it.

    Edit: Took a stab at it, what do you think?
    Last edited by Morth; 2010-02-04 at 06:33 PM.

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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morth View Post
    Haven't taken to much time to think into it, but give me a day or two and I'll look into it.

    Edit: Took a stab at it, what do you think?
    Every thing seems good except, i would change maybe the luck feats at 23 and 27 from luck feats to generic bonus feats. because at high levels such as these its almost sort of traditional for an epic progression to grant some epic feats. Perhaps from a list similar to the rogue?

    And maybe a different weapon ability than brilliant energy. That could almost seem like a detriment when fighting undead or constructs.

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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    I think you handled the Epic levels very well with new abilities to look forward to. It's the way every Epic class should have been designed.

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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    A few little things and a bigger one:

    1. High Roller makes a Lucky Number of 1 obsolete. Sure, you don't get it until lvl 18, but still.

    2. You have a few Additional Luck Rerolls listed, but I can't see any original Luck Reroll listed. Did I just miss it?

    3. What you've got looks good, but I agree that it's pretty passive ability-heavy. Thematically, I love that, but leaves the player with fewer options. some minor spellcasting would fix that, but kind of goes against the theme of Luck Over Skill and might make the class too similar to Bard.

    So, I suggest:

    These Things Just Happen (Su, maybe Sp): At levels 1, 3, and every third level after, choose one of the following abilities, to a total of 7 at 18th level. Activating one of These Things is an immediate action, but requires no physical action on your part, and no material components - you hope they happen, and they do. The save DC, if there is one, is equal to 10 + 1/2 class level + Cha. Your caster level is equal to half your class level (min. 1).

    Pratfall - 3/day - Functions as the spell Grease, except that it lasts for only one round. The Balance check DC is the same as your standard save DC.

    Soft Landing - 3/day - Functions exactly as the spell Feather Fall.

    It Came Out of Nowhere - 1/day - Functions as Summon Nature's Ally X, where X is your caster level.

    I'll Get You This Time - 3/day - Functions as True Strike.

    It Was Open When I Got There - 3/day - Functions as the spell Knock.

    And Then I Found Five Gold - 3/day - Functions as Charm Person, except that you must converse with the target for at least one minute first.

    Wasn't So Bad - 3/day, minimum level 3 - Functions as Resist Energy, for 1 round per level.

    There You Are - 3/day, minimum level 3 - Functions as See Invisibility, but for 1 round per level.

    On a Clear Day - 3/day, minimum level 6 - Functions as the spell Call Lightning, except only one bolt, which strikes immediately.

    Tougher Than I Thought - 3/day, minimum level 9 - Functions as Stoneskin, but only lasts 1 round per level.

    A Sign From Above - 3/day, minimum level 12 - Functions as the spell Call Lightning Storm, except only one bolt, which strikes immediately.

    Thought It Had Me For Sure - 3/day, minimum level 15 - Functions as Ethereal Jaunt, but only lasts one round. Dismissable at will.

    I Only Touched It, I Swear - 3/day, minimum level 18 - Functions as Mordenkainen's Disjunction, except only for one object or spell that you are touching.

    And So On....

    The idea here is that all of these abilities can be used instantaneously, fast enough to gain DR when something attacks you or when you accidentally set off a trap, or to get True Strike on the last attack of a full attack, since you're lucky enough to get what you need when you need it. In exchange, you get limited uses per day and the durations are reduced so you don't just buff ahead of time like an ordinary spellcaster. Preparation is for wusses, everything'll work out fine, you'll see. The class-level-based DCs keep your abilities from becoming obsolete, which is a bit of a pet peeve for me.

    I'd even consider reducing the durations of everything to one round, and maybe reducing level requirements in return, for more of a 'Whew, that was close' feel, and less 'There's the enemy, get your buffs up'. I'd say, as a rule of thumb for this, give them the spell later than a real caster, unless the reduced duration significantly impairs its usefulness. Avoid spells with expensive components. I think it could be fun to adapt non-magic (i.e. psionics, ToB, etc.) abilities for this, but that's too much work for me.

    Also, not sure whether it should be Sp or Su, since he wouldn't actually be casting the spells, but they're happening because he wants them to, and should probably be dispellable.

    Anyway, I like the class, hope this helps, etc. Use it if you like it.

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    Last edited by itastelikelove; 2010-02-05 at 08:19 PM.

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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by itastelikelove View Post
    A few little things and a bigger one:

    1. High Roller makes a Lucky Number of 1 obsolete. Sure, you don't get it until lvl 18, but still.

    2. You have a few Additional Luck Rerolls listed, but I can't see any original Luck Reroll listed. Did I just miss it?

    3. What you've got looks good, but I agree that it's pretty passive ability-heavy. Thematically, I love that, but leaves the player with fewer options. some minor spellcasting would fix that, but kind of goes against the theme of Luck Over Skill and might make the class too similar to Bard.

    So, I suggest:

    These Things Just Happen (Su, maybe Sp): At levels 1, 3, and every third level after, choose one of the following abilities, to a total of 7 at 18th level. Activating one of These Things is an immediate action, but requires no physical action on your part, and no material components - you hope they happen, and they do. The save DC, if there is one, is equal to 10 + 1/2 class level + Cha. Your caster level is equal to half your class level (min. 1).

    Pratfall - 3/day - Functions as the spell Grease, except that it lasts for only one round. The Balance check DC is the same as your standard save DC.

    Soft Landing - 3/day - Functions exactly as the spell Feather Fall.

    It Came Out of Nowhere - 1/day - Functions as Summon Nature's Ally X, where X is your caster level.

    I'll Get You This Time - 3/day - Functions as True Strike.

    It Was Open When I Got There - 3/day - Functions as the spell Knock.

    And Then I Found Five Gold - 3/day - Functions as Charm Person, except that you must converse with the target for at least one minute first.

    Wasn't So Bad - 3/day, minimum level 3 - Functions as Resist Energy, for 1 round per level.

    There You Are - 3/day, minimum level 3 - Functions as See Invisibility, but for 1 round per level.

    On a Clear Day - 3/day, minimum level 6 - Functions as the spell Call Lightning, except only one bolt, which strikes immediately.

    Tougher Than I Thought - 3/day, minimum level 9 - Functions as Stoneskin, but only lasts 1 round per level.

    A Sign From Above - 3/day, minimum level 12 - Functions as the spell Call Lightning Storm, except only one bolt, which strikes immediately.

    Thought It Had Me For Sure - 3/day, minimum level 15 - Functions as Ethereal Jaunt, but only lasts one round. Dismissable at will.

    I Only Touched It, I Swear - 3/day, minimum level 18 - Functions as Mordenkainen's Disjunction, except only for one object or spell that you are touching.

    And So On....

    The idea here is that all of these abilities can be used instantaneously, fast enough to gain DR when something attacks you or when you accidentally set off a trap, or to get True Strike on the last attack of a full attack, since you're lucky enough to get what you need when you need it. In exchange, you get limited uses per day and the durations are reduced so you don't just buff ahead of time like an ordinary spellcaster. Preparation is for wusses, everything'll work out fine, you'll see. The class-level-based DCs keep your abilities from becoming obsolete, which is a bit of a pet peeve for me.

    I'd even consider reducing the durations of everything to one round, and maybe reducing level requirements in return, for more of a 'Whew, that was close' feel, and less 'There's the enemy, get your buffs up'. I'd say, as a rule of thumb for this, give them the spell later than a real caster, unless the reduced duration significantly impairs its usefulness. Avoid spells with expensive components. I think it could be fun to adapt non-magic (i.e. psionics, ToB, etc.) abilities for this, but that's too much work for me.

    Also, not sure whether it should be Sp or Su, since he wouldn't actually be casting the spells, but they're happening because he wants them to, and should probably be dispellable.

    Anyway, I like the class, hope this helps, etc. Use it if you like it.
    Mind if I add those? That's an amazing idea.
    (Luck Rerolls come from the Luck Feats, as a limit to how often they are used. I just used them as an ability currency for the class.)

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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    By all means, add away. Feel free to add to the list, or make any changes you see fit.

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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by itastelikelove View Post
    1. High Roller makes a Lucky Number of 1 obsolete. Sure, you don't get it until lvl 18, but still.
    It seems to me that if you were playing a game that got up to the higher levels you'd chose your lucky number to be 2 -- High Roller would let you treat all 1's as 2's, turning them into auto-successes (and you could leave two's alone as well...). I'd make it that High Roller can't effect either natural 1's or natural 20's - making a Lucky Number of 1 more appealing, while only very slightly reducing the power of High Roller.

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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    If it is a very weak class as it is currently, how does it compare to, say, Vow of Poverty?
    Perhaps reducing the progression of abilities, and forcing a character-altering stipulation, to better fit the arrangement of VoP. I personally think having more feats of that nature around would prove interesting, for certain campaigns.

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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    Okay, I see nothing about this class that is underpowered. By level 20 you get...
    Spoiler
    Show
    All Good Saves
    Good Skills
    Moderate BAB
    Jack of All Trades to round out skill monkeying
    6 bonus luck feats and 3 extra luck rerolls
    A better defensive roll at will.
    What is effectively a +4 Keen Vorpal Weapon (a +10 weapon!) in addition to your weapon's normal qualities.
    The power critical feat
    7 SLAs each usable 3/day
    A +1 bonus on difficult checks and attacks
    Charisma mod+1 AC (+ Charisma modifier if in light or no armor)
    Charisma mod+ Charisma mod+ 1 Hit
    Charisma mod+ Charisma mod+ 1 Damage
    Charisma mod+1 Saves (+Charisma mod if you spend a luck reroll)
    Charisma mod+ Charisma mod+ 1 Skills (+Charisma mod for Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate) (+Charisma mod if you spend a luck rerolls).
    Give +Charisma mod to bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate skils of allies
    Can let allies make rerolls on own behalf.
    High Roller+Lucky number (choosing 3) + Dumb Luck/Better Lucky than Good = The numbers 1, 2, 3, and 20 all give natural 20s (a 25% chance of auto-success).
    Improved Evasion
    -5 penalty to AC, Damage rolls, and Skill checks of enemies within 30 feet.
    +5 bonus to AC, Damage rolls, and Skill checks of allies within 30 feet.
    Can spend 4 luck rerolls to gain automatic hit/critical with bonus damage equal to Cha mod (which is multiplied).
    Uncanny Dodge
    A risky ability to double your damage.
    Charisma determines skill points gained.


    Assuming that this guy has a twinked out charisma score (let's say 36), he gets...
    Spoiler
    Show

    437 skill points
    +26 bonus to saves (+39 if you spend a luck reroll)
    +46 to attack rolls
    +31 to damage rolls
    +14 AC (+27 if wearing light or no armor)
    Jack of All Trades, Power Critical, and 6 luck feats as bonus feats (and 3 bonus luck rerolls).
    A better defensive roll at will.
    Weapon is vorpal and keen
    7 SLAs each usable 3/day
    A +1 bonus on difficult checks and attacks
    +27 to skill checks (+40 if check is bluff, diplomacy, or intimidate) (+40 if you spend a luck reroll [+53 if check is also bluff, diplomacy, or intimidate])
    Give +13 mod to bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate skils of allies
    Can let allies make rerolls on own behalf.
    High Roller+Lucky number (choosing 3) + Dumb Luck/Better Lucky than Good = The numbers 1, 2, 3, and 20 all give natural 20s (a 25% chance of auto-success).
    Improved Evasion
    -5 penalty to AC, Damage rolls, and Skill checks of enemies within 30 feet.
    +5 bonus to AC, Damage rolls, and Skill checks of allies within 30 feet.
    Can spend 4 luck rerolls to gain automatic hit/critical with +13 damage (which is multiplied).
    Uncanny Dodge
    A risky ability to double your damage.


    How on earth is this weak? It is the best skill monkey in existance given enough tools to keep himself alive in nearly any circumstance, given a free +10 weapon and a few martial abilities to help in combat, and thrown in with some utility SLAs when nothing else works.
    I personally don't think that a properly build Luck Child could be properly challenged unless the DM went out of his way specifically to challenge him. Despite the lack of options with this class, I'd rank it as tier 3 (if perhaps a low tier 3).
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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    Okay, I see nothing about this class that is underpowered. By level 20 you get...
    Spoiler
    Show
    All Good Saves
    Good Skills
    Moderate BAB
    Jack of All Trades to round out skill monkeying
    6 bonus luck feats and 3 extra luck rerolls
    A better defensive roll at will.
    What is effectively a +4 Keen Vorpal Weapon (a +10 weapon!) in addition to your weapon's normal qualities.
    The power critical feat
    7 SLAs each usable 3/day
    A +1 bonus on difficult checks and attacks
    Charisma mod+1 AC (+ Charisma modifier if in light or no armor)
    Charisma mod+ Charisma mod+ 1 Hit
    Charisma mod+ Charisma mod+ 1 Damage
    Charisma mod+1 Saves (+Charisma mod if you spend a luck reroll)
    Charisma mod+ Charisma mod+ 1 Skills (+Charisma mod for Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate) (+Charisma mod if you spend a luck rerolls).
    Give +Charisma mod to bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate skils of allies
    Can let allies make rerolls on own behalf.
    High Roller+Lucky number (choosing 3) + Dumb Luck/Better Lucky than Good = The numbers 1, 2, 3, and 20 all give natural 20s (a 25% chance of auto-success).
    Improved Evasion
    -5 penalty to AC, Damage rolls, and Skill checks of enemies within 30 feet.
    +5 bonus to AC, Damage rolls, and Skill checks of allies within 30 feet.
    Can spend 4 luck rerolls to gain automatic hit/critical with bonus damage equal to Cha mod (which is multiplied).
    Uncanny Dodge
    A risky ability to double your damage.
    Charisma determines skill points gained.


    Assuming that this guy has a twinked out charisma score (let's say 36), he gets...
    Spoiler
    Show

    437 skill points
    +26 bonus to saves (+39 if you spend a luck reroll)
    +46 to attack rolls
    +31 to damage rolls
    +14 AC (+27 if wearing light or no armor)
    Jack of All Trades, Power Critical, and 6 luck feats as bonus feats (and 3 bonus luck rerolls).
    A better defensive roll at will.
    Weapon is vorpal and keen
    7 SLAs each usable 3/day
    A +1 bonus on difficult checks and attacks
    +27 to skill checks (+40 if check is bluff, diplomacy, or intimidate) (+40 if you spend a luck reroll [+53 if check is also bluff, diplomacy, or intimidate])
    Give +13 mod to bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate skils of allies
    Can let allies make rerolls on own behalf.
    High Roller+Lucky number (choosing 3) + Dumb Luck/Better Lucky than Good = The numbers 1, 2, 3, and 20 all give natural 20s (a 25% chance of auto-success).
    Improved Evasion
    -5 penalty to AC, Damage rolls, and Skill checks of enemies within 30 feet.
    +5 bonus to AC, Damage rolls, and Skill checks of allies within 30 feet.
    Can spend 4 luck rerolls to gain automatic hit/critical with +13 damage (which is multiplied).
    Uncanny Dodge
    A risky ability to double your damage.


    How on earth is this weak? It is the best skill monkey in existance given enough tools to keep himself alive in nearly any circumstance, given a free +10 weapon and a few martial abilities to help in combat, and thrown in with some utility SLAs when nothing else works.
    I personally don't think that a properly build Luck Child could be properly challenged unless the DM went out of his way specifically to challenge him. Despite the lack of options with this class, I'd rank it as tier 3 (if perhaps a low tier 3).
    Is that bad?

  28. - Top - End - #28
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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    Is it bad... hard to say.

    Is is overpowered? No.
    Pretty much nothing you could create would ever be overpowered. Unless you create something that can use every spell in existance whenever you want, not overpowered.

    This guy is, however, one seriously strong dude. This guy has more SAD than the Factotum, which I didn't think was possible. Not counting font of inspiration, this guy probably beats up the factotum 9 out of 10 times. In fact, this guy probably beats up everything that is not a full caster (which could poke holes in your defenses... somehow), an ubercharger (which kills you dead), or a chain tripper (see ubercharger).

    To answer whether this is bad or not, the only question here is if you are happy with this power level or not?

    With a very low degree of optimization (take only luck feats and boost charisma at each opportunity), this class takes down pretty much everything other than casters and doesn't seem to need a party for anything other than healing.
    This guy doesn't seem to have any infinite loops or deal massive damage on a reliable basis but he'll live long enough to take just about any problem out and can contribute to the party as a skill monkey, utility character, and a secondary fighter. It's difficult to challenge a Luck Child unless a DM takes steps to make it difficult.

    If you were aiming for this sort of a power level, then this is a very good class. If you were aiming a bit lower, for something that could be played alongside most other classes without overshadowing them, perhaps remove a bit of redundancy from the class. When you start adding your Charisma bonus to a roll 2 or 3 times, things start getting a bit crazy.
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    Default Re: The Luck Child (3.5 Base Class)

    It's very cool though. XD
    Seems to me, you should pick if you want them to be fighting characters, or Skill characters. If the first, then lower the skills list, and stop some of the abilities from boosting their skill. If the second, take out lucky weapon or something. Make sense?
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