Dragon Template

[Steelblood]

Basically as a DM i want to have a reaccuring black dragon to fight the party, is there any template or somthing of the like which can easily buff the dragon and make it advance in age like the party does in lvls?(huge run on sentance)Pathfinder/3.5

[pffh]

Half black dragon and then later add another half black dragon so you have a half black dragon half black dragon black dragon.

[Temotei]

Half black dragon and then later add another half black dragon so you have a half black dragon half black dragon black dragon.

Can you add draconic to that?

[Irreverent Fool]

Dragons can take class levels and their spellcasting stacks with levels in sorcerer. The half-dragon template is fun to apply to dragons.

Edit: Ninjas!

What I've done with a recurring dragon character is simply advance it a category when appropriate without changing its size and reach. From the player perspective, it just got tougher.

My first recommendation would be class levels, especially non-associated class levels.

Can you add draconic to that?

Yes. Yes you can.

Edit 2: Swap out feats like Alertness for metabreath feats.

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[Temotei]

So...we could technically have a draconic half black dragon half black dragon half red dragon half red dragon half bronze dragon half bronze dragon half silver dragon half silver dragon half gold dragon half gold dragon half blue dragon half blue dragon half green dragon half green dragon half white dragon half white dragon half brass dragon half brass dragon half copper dragon half copper dragon black dragon?

[pffh]

Can you add draconic to that?

Hmm not to hijack the thread but I do wonder how much dragon you can get in one dragon without changing it's true colour.

[Steelblood]

i think i can make that work, thanks guys and gals.

[Temotei]

i think i can make that work, thanks guys and gals.

I hope you're totally using that.

I calculate +61 LA. I'm not sure of CR.

[Irreverent Fool]

Hmm not to hijack the thread but I do wonder how much dragon you can get in one dragon without changing it's true colour.

So...we could technically have a draconic half black dragon half black dragon half red dragon half red dragon half bronze dragon half bronze dragon half silver dragon half silver dragon half gold dragon half gold dragon half blue dragon half blue dragon half green dragon half green dragon half white dragon half white dragon half brass dragon half brass dragon half copper dragon half copper dragon black dragon?

Well, normally you can't stack the same template, which is to say that you can't be a half-black-dragon twice. Looking at Crystal Keep though, you could have a

Draconic Half-Adamantine Half-Amethyst Half-Arboreal Half-Battle Half-Beast Half-Black Half-Blue Half-Brass Half-Bronze Half-Brown Half-Chaos Half-Chiang Lung Half-Chromium Half-Cobalt Half-Concordant Half-Copper Half-Crystal Half-Deep Half-Emerald Half-Ethereal Half-Fang Half-Force Half-Gold Half-Green Half-Howling Half-Iron Half-Li Lung Half-Lung Wang Half-Nickel Half-Oceanus Half-Pan Lung Half-Prismatic Half-Pyroclastic Half-Radiant Half-Red Half-Rust Half-Sand Half-Sapphire Half-Shadow Half-Shen Lung Half-Silver Half-Song Half-Steel Half-Styx Half-T’ien Lung Arch Black Dragon

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[pffh]

Well, normally you can't stack the same template, which is to say that you can't be a half-black-dragon twice. Looking at Crystal Keep though, you could have a

Draconic Half-Adamantine Half-Amethyst Half-Arboreal Half-Battle Half-Beast Half-Black Half-Blue Half-Brass Half-Bronze Half-Brown Half-Chaos Half-Chiang Lung Half-Chromium Half-Cobalt Half-Concordant Half-Copper Half-Crystal Half-Deep Half-Emerald Half-Ethereal Half-Fang Half-Force Half-Gold Half-Green Half-Howling Half-Iron Half-Li Lung Half-Lung Wang Half-Nickel Half-Oceanus Half-Pan Lung Half-Prismatic Half-Pyroclastic Half-Radiant Half-Red Half-Rust Half-Sand Half-Sapphire Half-Shadow Half-Shen Lung Half-Silver Half-Song Half-Steel Half-Styx Half-T’ien Lung Arch Black Dragon

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That must look like a bloody painting accident. I must figure out how to add it to my game and have it claim to be the ultimate dragon, and then dodge the players handbook my players will throw at me.

[Temotei]

That must look like a bloody painting accident. I must figure out how to add it to my game and have it claim to be the ultimate dragon, and then dodge the players handbook my players will throw at me.

You forgot to mention the knives and fire.

[Irreverent Fool]

That must look like a bloody painting accident. I must figure out how to add it to my game and have it claim to be the ultimate dragon, and then dodge the players handbook my players will throw at me.

If I counted correctly, those templates would add (among other things)
+181 AC
+362 str
+92 con
+90 int
+92 cha
+92 CR

You'd get less guff throwing Tiamat at them, I think.

obnoxious
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[peacenlove]

If I counted correctly, those templates would add (among other things)
+181 AC
+362 str
+92 con
+90 int
+92 cha
+92 CR

You'd get less guff throwing Tiamat at them, I think.

obnoxious
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And yet be utterly crushed by a holy word spell Btw what would be a proper alignment for this ... thing?

Well, normally you can't stack the same template, which is to say that you can't be a half-black-dragon twice. Looking at Crystal Keep though, you could have a

Draconic Half-Adamantine Half-Amethyst Half-Arboreal Half-Battle Half-Beast Half-Black Half-Blue Half-Brass Half-Bronze Half-Brown Half-Chaos Half-Chiang Lung Half-Chromium Half-Cobalt Half-Concordant Half-Copper Half-Crystal Half-Deep Half-Emerald Half-Ethereal Half-Fang Half-Force Half-Gold Half-Green Half-Howling Half-Iron Half-Li Lung Half-Lung Wang Half-Nickel Half-Oceanus Half-Pan Lung Half-Prismatic Half-Pyroclastic Half-Radiant Half-Red Half-Rust Half-Sand Half-Sapphire Half-Shadow Half-Shen Lung Half-Silver Half-Song Half-Steel Half-Styx Half-T’ien Lung Arch Black Dragon

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Whatever wizard made this must have been very, VERY patient. Imagine the sheer number of failed experiments to get to this

[Temotei]

And yet be utterly crushed by a holy word spell Btw what would be a proper alignment for this ... thing?

Universal alignment -- the new one.

[hamishspence]

How many true dragon types (excepting dragonwrought kobolds, which, according to some people, count), from Dragon Magazine and WoTC books, haven't had a half-dragon template statted out?

Lets see:

(Shining South)
Rattelyr

(Dragons of Faerun)
Mist Dragon
Mercury Dragon

(Magic of Incarnum)
Incarnum Dragon

(Dragon Compendium)
Orange Dragon
Yellow Dragon
Purple Dragon

(Dragon Magazine)
Axial dragon (unlike the others in the issue, half-dragon template absent)
Brainstealer Dragon
Dalzmus (three-headed Faerun dragon)
Chole Dragon (abyss)
Astral Dragon
Elysium Dragon? (not sure if that was the actual name.)
Hades Dragon (that definitely wasn't the name, but where it was from)
Tome Dragon
Hex Dragon
Time Dragon
And, if sea serpents are counted:
Spiked sea serpent
Lantern sea serpent
Crested sea serpent

How many have I missed out?

[Bayar]

Well, normally you can't stack the same template, which is to say that you can't be a half-black-dragon twice. Looking at Crystal Keep though, you could have a

Draconic Half-Adamantine Half-Amethyst Half-Arboreal Half-Battle Half-Beast Half-Black Half-Blue Half-Brass Half-Bronze Half-Brown Half-Chaos Half-Chiang Lung Half-Chromium Half-Cobalt Half-Concordant Half-Copper Half-Crystal Half-Deep Half-Emerald Half-Ethereal Half-Fang Half-Force Half-Gold Half-Green Half-Howling Half-Iron Half-Li Lung Half-Lung Wang Half-Nickel Half-Oceanus Half-Pan Lung Half-Prismatic Half-Pyroclastic Half-Radiant Half-Red Half-Rust Half-Sand Half-Sapphire Half-Shadow Half-Shen Lung Half-Silver Half-Song Half-Steel Half-Styx Half-T’ien Lung Arch Black Dragon

obnoxious
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You should add celestial, fiendish, tauric and legendary to that list.

Then turn it into an Effigy.

[Runestar]

I think class lvs/templates would be a fun way of allowing the dragon to adapt to the party's tactics. You could say the dragon is obsessed with beating them and is spending the bulk of its wealth on magic augmentations/training to best the party at their own game.

[hamishspence]

yes- class levels might be good, if they complement its powers well.

I've remembered which of the five "ferrous dragons" is missing from that list above.

Iron, nickel, cobalt, and chromium, are present, but Tungsten Dragon is not.

[V for Victory]

In draconomicon there are prestige classes for dragons that are pretty sweet

[Runestar]

If all else fails, you can't go wrong with martial adept classes.

[Starscream]

What I've done with a recurring dragon character is simply advance it a category when appropriate without changing its size and reach. From the player perspective, it just got tougher.

I've also done this. I also customize the feats and throw on the occasional class level.

[Magnor Criol]

Customizing the feats is one of the best things you can do quickly to improve the challenge.

Also, if you have access to Draconomicon (which you probably don't or you wouldn't have started this thread), there's sample dragons of all age categories for all the MM's true dragons listed at the back of the book, with statblocks. It's quite useful really.

[Irreverent Fool]

And yet be utterly crushed by a holy word spell Btw what would be a proper alignment for this ... thing?

Chaotic Neutral, Chaotic Evil or True Neutral have the best arguments, I think. It would still have SR, but yeah. Its will and reflex saves would be abysmal unless it acquired grace somehow.

I'd have to wonder what a thing this smart would be doing within 40' though. All it needs is a decent-ranged save-or-die and you're all toast. Likewise for the party though.

If all else fails, you can't go wrong with martial adept classes.

That works. Few DMs are more irritated than when a player says, "Iron... Heart... Surge!" Imagine when a dragon facing the players does it.

obnoxious
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