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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default 4e: Building my kobold rogue II : Electric boogaloo

    The first post has been edited, please refer to page 2.

    As of current, character has survived 4 sessions, despite the DM loving his hard encounters(We seriously waste whole sessions on ONE fight, he loves high defenses to AC and I assume he's going to defend against reflex AND ac next time because the wizard relies on those, I only got one reflex attack, the rest are to AC, and we mentioned it so, but atleast he has the decency to not kill us... immediately, he will save our asses if he doesn't intend to kill us yet).

    The current character sheet so far is here.
    http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetvie...sheetid=187983
    I've been looking in my books at paragon paths but none seem to appeal to my style of play, and or rely on charisma. This is mostly auto-build because I forgot to bring my sheet to the session. We play at a Gameshop so parties change, currently we have:
    Dwarf cleric 8(or 7)
    Dragonborn Paladin 6(almost 7)
    Changling assassin 6 or 7(I think it's assassin, the one who is singles out targets, has the shadow source).
    And I forget the last guy's race/class.

    We also occasionally have:
    Elf wizard ?
    Human Bard ? (Multi-classed as nearly everything, is funny as hell)

    Tomorrow or friday I'm getting DDI, so I can do all sources, but please provide the gist of it.

    Ask if you need more information, will provide as needed.
    Last edited by Touchy; 2010-02-24 at 04:49 PM.

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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    For some games, the starting gold works likes this:
    A sixth level character would get 1 sixth level item. 1 fifth level item. 1 seventh level item. And money to purchase a sixth level item.

    Or something along those lines. Better off asking the DM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    I don't really have much direct advice to give you, except that I thoroughly approve of the idea. I did create a similar character (just for fun, not yet for actual use) using the hybrid rules via DDI.

    Spoiler
    Show

    ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
    Mokyok, level 2
    Kobold, Barbarian|Rogue
    Hybrid Talent: Feral Might
    Feral Might: Whirling Slayer
    Background: Former Gladiator (Former Gladiator Benefit)

    FINAL ABILITY SCORES
    Str 17, Con 13, Dex 18, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 10.

    STARTING ABILITY SCORES
    Str 17, Con 11, Dex 16, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 10.


    AC: 19 Fort: 16 Reflex: 18 Will: 12
    HP: 31 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 7

    TRAINED SKILLS
    Acrobatics +10, Thievery +12, Athletics +9, Perception +6, Stealth +12

    UNTRAINED SKILLS
    Arcana, Bluff +1, Diplomacy +1, Dungeoneering +1, Endurance +2, Heal +1, History, Insight +1, Intimidate +1, Nature +1, Religion, Streetwise +1

    FEATS
    Level 1: Hybrid Talent
    Level 2: Weapon Proficiency (Rapier)

    POWERS
    Hybrid Barbarian at-will 1: Whirling Rend
    Hybrid Rogue at-will 1: Riposte Strike
    Hybrid encounter 1: Guarded Attack
    Hybrid daily 1: Precise Incision
    Hybrid utility 2: Fleeting Ghost

    ITEMS
    Rhythm Blade Rapier +1, Supremely Vicious Rapier +1, Magic Leather Armor +1, Amulet of Protection +1
    ====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

    Mokyok is a two weapon weilding slave-kobold who was purchased by cruel masters and thrown, alongside many hundreds of his kind, into vast and decadent gladiatorial combats. However, the plucky little Dragon Dropping somehow managed to survive, and even excell in the brutal world of the Arena. He has become a fierce and deadly warrior, with a suprisingly elegant dual-rapiers fighting style.

    A Kobold to be reckoned with.

    Though the idea is slightly loopier than your own.

    Worth remembering, by the way, that if you are a rogue and weilding two rapiers, you don't have many ways of gaining a benefit from this that I know of. Better to weild a rapier as your main, and keep some throwing knives to hand perhaps? It'd save you a feat if nothing else. That is unless you are planning on taking much of the two-weapon feat chain I guess, for some static bonuses. Someone else can probably advise you on the comparative benefits of doing this as a Rogue, but I suspect it's not the simplest, cheapest, or best way to boost your Rogues damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by herrhauptmann View Post
    For some games, the starting gold works likes this:
    A sixth level character would get 1 sixth level item. 1 fifth level item. 1 seventh level item. And money to purchase a sixth level item.

    Or something along those lines. Better off asking the DM.
    Oh, yes. I think it's item of Level +1, item of Level, Item of Level -1 and cash equal to item of level -1, actually. Just off the top of my head though.
    Last edited by Tiki Snakes; 2010-02-03 at 08:46 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Quote Originally Posted by herrhauptmann View Post
    For some games, the starting gold works likes this:
    A sixth level character would get 1 sixth level item. 1 fifth level item. 1 seventh level item. And money to purchase a sixth level item.

    Or something along those lines. Better off asking the DM.
    Again, hobby shop, everyone shifts, and I only have contact with one person who never DMs.
    I just doubled the 3rd level gold and hoped everything works out for the best.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    I don't really have much direct advice to give you, except that I thoroughly approve of the idea. I did create a similar character (just for fun, not yet for actual use) using the hybrid rules via DDI.

    Spoiler
    Show

    ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
    Mokyok, level 2
    Kobold, Barbarian|Rogue
    Hybrid Talent: Feral Might
    Feral Might: Whirling Slayer
    Background: Former Gladiator (Former Gladiator Benefit)

    FINAL ABILITY SCORES
    Str 17, Con 13, Dex 18, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 10.

    STARTING ABILITY SCORES
    Str 17, Con 11, Dex 16, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 10.


    AC: 19 Fort: 16 Reflex: 18 Will: 12
    HP: 31 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 7

    TRAINED SKILLS
    Acrobatics +10, Thievery +12, Athletics +9, Perception +6, Stealth +12

    UNTRAINED SKILLS
    Arcana, Bluff +1, Diplomacy +1, Dungeoneering +1, Endurance +2, Heal +1, History, Insight +1, Intimidate +1, Nature +1, Religion, Streetwise +1

    FEATS
    Level 1: Hybrid Talent
    Level 2: Weapon Proficiency (Rapier)

    POWERS
    Hybrid Barbarian at-will 1: Whirling Rend
    Hybrid Rogue at-will 1: Riposte Strike
    Hybrid encounter 1: Guarded Attack
    Hybrid daily 1: Precise Incision
    Hybrid utility 2: Fleeting Ghost

    ITEMS
    Rhythm Blade Rapier +1, Supremely Vicious Rapier +1, Magic Leather Armor +1, Amulet of Protection +1
    ====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

    Mokyok is a two weapon weilding slave-kobold who was purchased by cruel masters and thrown, alongside many hundreds of his kind, into vast and decadent gladiatorial combats. However, the plucky little Dragon Dropping somehow managed to survive, and even excell in the brutal world of the Arena. He has become a fierce and deadly warrior, with a suprisingly elegant dual-rapiers fighting style.

    A Kobold to be reckoned with.

    Though the idea is slightly loopier than your own.

    Worth remembering, by the way, that if you are a rogue and weilding two rapiers, you don't have many ways of gaining a benefit from this that I know of. Better to weild a rapier as your main, and keep some throwing knives to hand perhaps? It'd save you a feat if nothing else. That is unless you are planning on taking much of the two-weapon feat chain I guess, for some static bonuses. Someone else can probably advise you on the comparative benefits of doing this as a Rogue, but I suspect it's not the simplest, cheapest, or best way to boost your Rogues damage.



    Oh, yes. I think it's item of Level +1, item of Level, Item of Level -1 and cash equal to item of level -1, actually. Just off the top of my head though.
    I'll stick with one rapier then, now I got one feat free.
    Time to go looking for feats...

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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    As a brutal scoundrel with a rapier, you're more reliant on flanking than an artful dodger with a dagger (who can pull off the Deft-Strike-around-corners-at-range trick for easy CA).

    I don't have access to my Builder here so I can't name names, but you should keep an eye out for powers that grant you shifts (you'll need to move around a lot to maintain flanking) or combat advantage (so you don't have to move). Provoking OAs will not be a good idea for you, so the Defensive Mobility feat might be worth looking at if you find yourself having to move.

    Otherwise your build looks good. My only concern would be that your low Int, Wis and Cha might preclude you from some very nice feats, but again I'm away from the builder and can't say for certain.
    Last edited by Colmarr; 2010-02-03 at 10:25 PM.
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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    I'd pump your Charisma a good bit. Sly Flourish is worthless as an at-will if you don't have at least a +1 Charisma bonus, and I'd urge for a +2 or higher to make it worth it. You can afford to drop your starting Dex down to 18, which will give you more breathing room with your Strength and Charisma.

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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Quote Originally Posted by Colmarr View Post
    As a brutal scoundrel with a rapier, you're more reliant on flanking than an artful dodger with a dagger (who can pull off the Deft-Strike-around-corners-at-range trick for easy CA).

    I don't have access to my Builder here so I can't name names, but you should keep an eye out for powers that grant you shifts (you'll need to move around a lot to maintain flanking) or combat advantage (so you don't have to move). Provoking OAs will not be a good idea for you, so the Defensive Mobility feat might be worth looking at if you find yourself having to move.

    Otherwise your build looks good. My only concern would be that your low Int, Wis and Cha might preclude you from some very nice feats, but again I'm away from the builder and can't say for certain.
    Yes, it would, but I am not trying to be a skill monkey.

    Some guys from the hobby shop I play with, these are usually in random pairs between two of three people able to DM.

    A changling assassin, he does the stealth job but only in places that really gives him the chance to, otherwise he's just another damage dealer. He also has plenty of other characters, he can DM.

    A human bard, not sure of build, but he roleplays him as a mental retard for fun(This is usually the extent of roleplaying outside of conversing with NPCS), has some multiclass feats. He can DM.

    Elf wizard, trying to learn the class, knows DnD, can do his job.

    Eldrian wizard, fun guy, uses flame shield and then causes thousands of opportunity attacks, generally only plays the wizard so he knows what he's doing.

    dragonborn I forget, rules lawyer and avid fan of "well it makes logical sense, so you can do X", but can be a stop having fun guy at times. Has only been DMing recently, and is generally the only guy who has a plot and has been Dming whenever he gets the chance.

    Dragonborn paladin, I've also met him online, was funny as hell to find him online after playing with him in real life, he's a bit obsessed with dragonborn and paladins; would play favored soul if he had the chance.

    We also got an older guy who plays whatever we need, and generally is very helpful on builds and such.

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    I'd pump your Charisma a good bit. Sly Flourish is worthless as an at-will if you don't have at least a +1 Charisma bonus, and I'd urge for a +2 or higher to make it worth it. You can afford to drop your starting Dex down to 18, which will give you more breathing room with your Strength and Charisma.
    Assuming Dex after race mod, going to see what feats it leaves me to take.
    I now have a 14 cha and a 15 str, both with a mod of +3.

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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Quote Originally Posted by Touchy View Post
    Yes, it would, but I am not trying to be a skill monkey.
    Who said anything about being a skill monkey? I'm talking about feats that you'll want that you might not qualify for with such low Int, Wis and Cha.

    I don't know of a rogue example off the top of my head, so let me give a Wizard one: Spell Focus is a very nice feat for wizards, but it requires a Cha of 13.

    My point is that you should take a look at which feats you might take in the future (even looking at Paragon and Epic) and check that your starting attribute scores will allow you to get them.
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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Quote Originally Posted by Colmarr View Post
    Who said anything about being a skill monkey? I'm talking about feats that you'll want that you might not qualify for with such low Int, Wis and Cha.

    I don't know of a rogue example off the top of my head, so let me give a Wizard one: Spell Focus is a very nice feat for wizards, but it requires a Cha of 13.

    My point is that you should take a look at which feats you might take in the future (even looking at Paragon and Epic) and check that your starting attribute scores will allow you to get them.
    I'll start evaluations tomorrow, because now is time for sleep.

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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Quote Originally Posted by Touchy View Post
    I just doubled the 3rd level gold and hoped everything works out for the best.
    Nope. Assuming your DM uses the standard rules for starting characters above 1st level, it's a lot easier to figure out in 4E than 3E.
    Magic items of 5th-, 6th-, and 7th-level, plus gold equal to a 5th-level magic item (1,000 gp) to buy rituals, components, consumables, other magic items, and other valuable items. Plus any reasonable amount of mundane gear.

    It's always items of your level -1, your level, and your level +1, plus gold equal to an item of your level -1. Easy to remember.

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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle View Post
    Nope. Assuming your DM uses the standard rules for starting characters above 1st level, it's a lot easier to figure out in 4E than 3E.
    Magic items of 5th-, 6th-, and 7th-level, plus gold equal to a 5th-level magic item (1,000 gp) to buy rituals, components, consumables, other magic items, and other valuable items. Plus any reasonable amount of mundane gear.

    It's always items of your level -1, your level, and your level +1, plus gold equal to an item of your level -1. Easy to remember.
    And worth way more than "double a 3rd level characters gold"

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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Some thoughts about the kobold,

    Yes, brutal scoundrel works pretty well even with non-strength races. I made a gnome scoundrel and it combines decently.

    Riposte strike is awesome for a brutal scoundrel. Sly flourish, however, is only really useful for an artful dodger, you may want to consider replacing it by either Deft or Piercing strike. Guarded attack you won't need as long as you have riposte strike; the two best options are probably Dazing Strike (gives you CA) and Fox Gambit. Easy Target is decent but compare with Blinding Barrage which is nothing short of awesome. Blind also gives you CA, of course. Blade Vault isn't very good though; a better example may be Low Slash (which is basically a free extra attack).

    I would recommend against dual-wielding rapiers simply because you don't get any two-weapon powers as a rogue. You can simply hold two rapiers and pretend you're dual-wielding. (edit) note that the "Deft-Strike-around-corners-at-range trick for easy CA" works just as well for a brutal scoundrel, as long as you wield a throwing dagger.

    I note your feats are specced for adding damage: backstabber and WP rapier both do precisely that. You may want to consider that you'll actually do more damage by sticking with a dagger and taking Weapon Expertise, because you'll hit more often that way, and have a feat left for something flashy.
    Last edited by Kurald Galain; 2010-02-04 at 03:55 AM.
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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle View Post
    Nope. Assuming your DM uses the standard rules for starting characters above 1st level, it's a lot easier to figure out in 4E than 3E.
    Magic items of 5th-, 6th-, and 7th-level, plus gold equal to a 5th-level magic item (1,000 gp) to buy rituals, components, consumables, other magic items, and other valuable items. Plus any reasonable amount of mundane gear.

    It's always items of your level -1, your level, and your level +1, plus gold equal to an item of your level -1. Easy to remember.
    Can I get that page number, so I may point it out. I doubt they know that rule and use the character creator instead. I was also never married to the idea of two-handed weapons. Although I do not see a benefit from wielding a dagger instead of a rapier, I still have two more feats
    Last edited by Touchy; 2010-02-04 at 07:39 AM.

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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    The rule for starting higher level characters is in the DMG1, p143.

    Do you really want to play a kobold? The best Rogues are generally Drow, because they can stay out of combat and still virtually guarantee combat advantage every round. Also, I recommend you make your At-Will powers Sly Flourish and Piercing Strike. Sly Flourish would be your primary attack, but if you find a target has too high an AC, Piercing Strike will usually hit. Although that is melee only....

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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Quote Originally Posted by greenknight View Post
    The rule for starting higher level characters is in the DMG1, p143.

    Do you really want to play a kobold? The best Rogues are generally Drow, because they can stay out of combat and still virtually guarantee combat advantage every round. Also, I recommend you make your At-Will powers Sly Flourish and Piercing Strike. Sly Flourish would be your primary attack, but if you find a target has too high an AC, Piercing Strike will usually hit. Although that is melee only....
    Kobolds are also great rogues, despite having one off stat, I gain a bonus to both my theivery and sneak skill, and one of the best rogue racial abilities in the game, and in melee I am guaranteed combat advantage every round.
    Move Shift
    Minor Shift
    Attack now has combat advantage.
    Besides, there is no best rogue race, just better races for rogues.

  18. - Top - End - #18
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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Quote Originally Posted by greenknight View Post
    Do you really want to play a kobold? The best Rogues are generally Drow, because they can stay out of combat and still virtually guarantee combat advantage every round.
    Pfft. Any rogue can virtually guarantee combat advantage every round, because of its class powers and some basic strategy.

    The best rogues are also Gnomes (because invisibility rocks), Bugbears (extra damage dice ftw), Elves (yes, elven reroll is awesome) and, yes, Goblins. Of course, any other +dex race will do in a pinch.

    Note that sly flourish is an Artful Dodger power, and the OP's build is a Brutal Scoundrel. Furthermore, Piercing Strike is not such a great power largely for the same reason that Precise Shot and Careful Strike are mediocre.
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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Quote Originally Posted by Touchy View Post
    Kobolds are also great rogues, despite having one off stat, I gain a bonus to both my theivery and sneak skill, and one of the best rogue racial abilities in the game, and in melee I am guaranteed combat advantage every round.
    Yes, Shifty is great, and it has it's uses in and out of combat. The +2 vs Traps shouldn't be ignored either. But you pay for it with that off stat, and to get the best use out of shifty in combat, you need to go melee, which can be dangerous for a Rogue.

    On the other hand, Drow have Darkvision, which is really useful for scouting, and they have two useful ability score bonuses. They also have a +2 to Stealth, and a +2 to Intimidate, which isn't bad if you go the Artful Dodger route (although I recommend Brutal Scoundrel for this). But best of all, you have Lolthtouched, which will usually allow you to get in 3 rounds of ranged sneak attacks if you use it right. After that you'd need to rely on the Distant Advantage feat or go into melee, but that's at least 3 rounds per battle where you don't have to expose yourself as much in combat (and once you activate Cloud of Darkness, you should have one round where you're almost immune to attack). Since you seem to have a problem keeping your characters alive, this might help a lot.

    @Kurald Galain, I'd say Cloud of Darkness trumps the Gnome's Invisibility, the Darkvision trumps the Bugbear, and the Elven Reroll isn't as necessary if your attacks have a high chance of hitting. Furthermore, while it might seem like Sly Flourish is for Artful Dodgers, Brutal Scoundrels with a +Charisma can use it even better.

    BTW, do you mean Sure Strike (Fighter) and Careful Attack (Ranger)? Because unless the errata has changed it, neither of those attacks add a modifier to damage, while Piercing Strike adds Dex to the damage. It's a small but very important difference.

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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Quote Originally Posted by greenknight View Post
    @Kurald Galain, I'd say Cloud of Darkness trumps the Gnome's Invisibility, the Darkvision trumps the Bugbear, and the Elven Reroll isn't as necessary if your attacks have a high chance of hitting.
    "Trumps", hardly. It depends a lot on what your aim for the build is. Yes, drow rogues play differently than bugbear rogues. No, that doesn't make them "better".

    (for instance, cloud of darkness can impede your allies, which may or may not be a problem depending on your group; gnome invis lets you move across the battlefield without OAs, which has its uses; darkvision is markedly limited in usage and does not by itself make you "good at scouting", even aside from the fact that scouting is irrelevant and/or lethal in certain settings)

    Furthermore, while it might seem like Sly Flourish is for Artful Dodgers, Brutal Scoundrels with a +Charisma can use it even better.
    If your aim is DPR, then Riposte Strike is quite possibly better than Sly Flourish. If your aim is not getting killed, then Riposte Strike is also quite possibly better, because it may cause monsters to refrain from attacking you.

    BTW, do you mean Sure Strike (Fighter) and Careful Attack (Ranger)?
    Yes. While those two are markedly worse powers than Piercing Strike, the point is that an attack with a useful rider is generally better than an attack with a boosted to-hit chance and no rider.
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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Drow and Bugbears are both pretty damn terrible for building Kobold Rogues however, guys.

    Though yes, careful selecting of what secondary stat you want to focus on, and proper selection of powers to match with your goals and your chosen style of rogue are very important.

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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Did I miss a restriction on what sources things can come from in the OP? Becaue I see a glaring oversights if Martial Power is allowed.

    Feat: Slaying Action. Every other encounter (roughly), you get to sneak attack twice in one round. Do I really need to explain that one?

    Now, as others have pointed out Sly Flourish is not a great choice for a Brutal Scoundral. I don't remember which book this came from, but there's an at-will called Clever Strike that all-but-guarantees Combat Advantage (you just have to have an ally adjacent to it).

    RE: Backstabber. This feat may not be giving you as much damage as you think. On average it's really only +2 damage at heroic, +3 damage at paragon, and +4 at epic. I'm not saying it's a *bad* feat, I'm saying other feats might be a bigger priority.

    RE: Dual-wielding Rapiers. Remember there's not nearly the benefit to dual-wielding in 4e you might be expecting. Unless you have a power that lets you attack with an off-hand weapon, it's just a way to have a second weapon property (or a decoration).
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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    About the two rapiers thing... Even if he gets no benefit at all (unless he invests in TWD etc.), I must say that a kobold dual-wielding rapiers must have a very high cool factor.
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    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Quote Originally Posted by BobTheDog View Post
    About the two rapiers thing... Even if he gets no benefit at all (unless he invests in TWD etc.), I must say that a kobold dual-wielding rapiers must have a very high cool factor.
    Hence my dual-rapier-weilding Kobold (Hybrid Rogue-Barbarian) Gladiator posted above, bub. ;)
    The OP get's less benefit because he's just Rogue, and hybrids are out because no DDI.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2009

    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Made this version this morning, fixed some powers and gave me level appropriate gold. And no, I will NOT be a drow, I really DO NOT like elves in general, and one of my friends mentioned that
    Spoiler
    Show
    A VARIANT OF ELDRIAN ARE COMING IN PHB3! , WHY DO WE NEED MORE ELVES!?
    Besides, we already got that changling assassin, and I really am not up for a ranged rogue anyways. I got rid of most of the powers that conflict, might of added a brutal scoundral power or two, but I picked powers based off of additional shifts/combat advantage/damage.

    Code:
    Levin, level 3
    Kobold, Rogue
    Rogue Tactics: Brutal Scoundrel
    
    FINAL ABILITY SCORES
    Str 15, Con 12, Dex 18, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 14.
    
    STARTING ABILITY SCORES
    Str 15, Con 10, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 14.
    
    
    AC: 18 Fort: 13 Reflex: 17 Will: 13
    HP: 34 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 8
    
    TRAINED SKILLS
    Stealth +14, Thievery +12, Intimidate +8, Bluff +8, Acrobatics +10, Athletics +8
    
    UNTRAINED SKILLS
    Arcana +1, Diplomacy +3, Dungeoneering, Endurance +2, Heal, History +1, Insight, Nature, Perception, Religion +1, Streetwise +3
    
    FEATS
    Level 1: Backstabber
    Level 2: Weapon Proficiency (Rapier)
    
    POWERS
    Rogue at-will 1: Riposte Strike
    Rogue at-will 1: Piercing Strike
    Rogue encounter 1: Sly Lunge
    Rogue daily 1: Easy Target
    Rogue utility 2: Fleeting Ghost
    Rogue encounter 3: Blade Vault
    Edit: Plus I threw the idea of dual wielding out the window when I would not get benefits from it, but rapier's are staying. Plus I like kobolds, and will stick with them.
    Last edited by Touchy; 2010-02-04 at 03:54 PM.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    UTC -6

    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Quote Originally Posted by Touchy View Post
    And no, I will NOT be a drow, I really DO NOT like elves in general, and one of my friends mentioned that
    Spoiler
    Show
    A VARIANT OF ELDRIAN ARE COMING IN PHB3! , WHY DO WE NEED MORE ELVES!?
    Never heard that there's going to be an Eladrin variant in PHB3. The only Eladrin variant I know of is right here.

    PHB3 gets Githzerai (green-skinned mystics from Beyond), Minotaurs (classic Greek bull-headed people), Shardminds (crystal-men), and Wilden (plant-men).

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2009

    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    Never heard that there's going to be an Eladrin variant in PHB3. The only Eladrin variant I know of is right here.

    PHB3 gets Githzerai (green-skinned mystics from Beyond), Minotaurs (classic Greek bull-headed people), Shardminds (crystal-men), and Wilden (plant-men).
    The guy who gave me this information is not very bright. He's probably assuming it to be PH3, because they released info on a new class at about the same time. I already knew of all the races so far besides Shardminds. But that was the race he was talking about.
    Last edited by Touchy; 2010-02-04 at 04:33 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Since you've gotten rid of Sly Flourish, why are you keeping 14 Charisma? Also, be aware of the drawbacks of Riposte Strike - all the enemy has to do is attack another target, or shift one and attack you with a ranged attack, and it's useless.

    Sly Lunge is terrible. In order to use it at all, the target must be granting combat advantage to you, so the benefits are marginal at best. Check out Dazing Strike if this is the kind of thing you want.

    While Easy Target isn't bad, it pales in comparison to Blinding Barrage.

    Your other choices seem fine, although you might want to consider replacing Blade Vault with Nasty Backswing. That effectively gives you something even better than the Elven Reroll.

  29. - Top - End - #29
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    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Jun 2007

    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Quote Originally Posted by greenknight View Post
    Also, be aware of the drawbacks of Riposte Strike - all the enemy has to do is attack another target, or shift one and attack you with a ranged attack, and it's useless.
    That's not useless: you have successfully intimidated your target into not attacking you. You don't get many defences better than that.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
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  30. - Top - End - #30
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: 4e: Building my kobold rogue

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    That's not useless: you have successfully intimidated your target into not attacking you. You don't get many defences better than that.
    But as I pointed out, that's a defence that doesn't work at all if the target can outreach you. And there's lots of ways for that to happen.

    Riposte Strike only really works if the target of the attack doesn't have anyone else to attack, and can't move out of your reach and still attack you. Otherwise, the target can still make an attack with no fear of taking extra damage, and while that might help you, someone in the party is still going to have to risk that attack. With most DMs, it's rare that Riposte Strike will actually increase the Rogue's DPR, or significantly decrease the DPR of the enemy.
    Last edited by greenknight; 2010-02-04 at 07:31 PM.

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