Is this in poor taste?

[Shinizak]

So I had a good idea for a World of Darkness game, but I'm slightly afraid that it might be in bad taste.

Things to know:

Spoiler

Show

The Umbra: The Umbra is the spirit world, a shadow or reflection of the real world. It is inhabited by spirits, gods, ghosts, and various other supernatural beings. It is so very connected to this world spiritually that if you were to kill a tree there, it would wither and die in the real world.

The Dreaming: The Dreaming is the manifestation of imagination and ideas. Things that are imagines become "fact" within the dreaming.

The storyline.

Spoiler

Show

The idea is that the players will be thrown into a world/tower between the umbra and the dreaming. This world is actually a reflection of a College library, and as the players are thrown into the world they gain a form of control over some college students. As the players begin to "solve" problems they notice the gradual arrival of incredibly powerful demons and angels who try to subdue them. In the real world, it turns out the kids have been terrorizing the library, killing students and soon enough, killing cops.

Finally as the players are forced into a corner, the players will be given the opportunity to destroy the tower and take the demons with them. Doing so will force the characters back into the real world where they'll be just in time to see the library fall off the hill and kill hundreds of students on the college campus below. If the characters look back they'll see their bewildered real world doubles being arrested, with nothing but sheer horror on their faces.

What do you think, is it in bad taste?

[Beorn080]

Assuming you don't just bring it out of no where at the end and go "Hey, you see your players being arrested for killing hundreds, way to go", then it shouldn't be too bad.

[drengnikrafe]

Umm... yes?
I mean, I understand world of darkness is supposed to be some pretty dark stuff, but... depending on how good of roleplayers your PCs are, this could do pretty bad things to their minds.
Furthermore, it's really... I mean, anything that occurs in a world as real as this is going to be a little bit boarderline crazy, but...
I feel so hesitent saying anything. In all probability, it's partially due to the fact I really don't know where I stand on this one, and partially that I don't want to irritate the kind of mind that can come up with this type of idea.

[KiwiImperator]

You can take anything, no matter how horrible, and make it taste good, as it were. It's just a matter of execution.

[ashmanonar]

I'm not going to speak to whether this may or may not be "in good taste." But think about it for a second. Is it your first gut reaction that this might creep the hell out of your players?

Then it probably will.

Generally, if your first question for something is "is this a bad idea," then it usually is.

Spoiler

Show

I think this may explain my aversion to World of Darkness games. I really dislike the attempt to superimpose this dark supernatural world over the real world, then blur the lines. (at least as a game; I'm an avid Jim Butcher fan, and consider the Dresden Files to be superb writing. Also because Harry Dresden is a BAMF.)

A fantasy world? I have no trouble with, because it's clearly fantasy. It has its own moral codes, laws, and reality. No blurring of worlds. You can explore distasteful themes much more successfully in such a world, I feel, because it's clearly delineated.

[oxinabox]

nope, pretty classic World of Darkness stuff.
Nice work.

[randomhero00]

I think its clever. But I'm demented like that.

[Shadowbane]

I think it's pretty clever. I mean, this is WoD. This is kind of what I expect when I play.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Seems like people who don't play WoD think this is too far, people who play think it's just far enough. I'd say do it, as long as your players are WoD vets(I wouldn't use it to introduce someone to the setting).

[Ormur]

It might show how desentized I am but I read the spoiler and prepared for something far worse while you were "just" having people killed. I think it has to nastier, in excruciating detail and more personal to squick out players, or me at least.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

I think you're more likely to annoy and frustrate your player than to freak them out - but it depends on the players, I guess.

[Defiant]

Seems like people who don't play WoD think this is too far, people who play think it's just far enough. I'd say do it, as long as your players are WoD vets(I wouldn't use it to introduce someone to the setting).

Without knowing WoD, I think I'm going to agree with this.

I would be thrown off and a little worried that it might be "in poor taste" for others (I personally have a high tolerance for such things and wouldn't mind). But if your players know what WoD is or have played it before, they should either expect it or not mind it.

[Squeejee]

I don't know WoD personally, but I know that I would have no problem adapting this type of game to my DnD group. Then again, my campaigns tend to run a little dark, so it's really a matter of the maturity of your players - I say go for it, should be fun.

[Strawberries]

Seems like people who don't play WoD think this is too far, people who play think it's just far enough. I'd say do it, as long as your players are WoD vets(I wouldn't use it to introduce someone to the setting).

I never played WoD outside Troika pc games, and I see no problem with the idea. I actually like it quite a bit (was kind of expecting worse when I clicked the spoiler). That said, I am famous for having a somewhat higher tolerance for things that may disturb other people.

I'd say there is no right answer to your question, it all depends on your players. If you know that they have usually no problem with dark stuff, go right ahead. If they are more easily disturbed, think twice before presenting the campaign to them.

[pasko77]

You should give hints to your players.
Something like, they DREAM of the real world, or they see the real world through mirrors. They should have the possiblity to determine the final outcome.

As you wrote it, it is railroading.

[Satyr]

This really depends on your players, and how comfortable they (and you) are with this. I personally like this, and I have run much, much worse stuff in a WoD campaign (Werewolf, mostly), but I know quite a few players are not very comfortable with stuff like this.

[oxinabox]

this comes back to how dark is too dark.
WoD is ment to be dark.
I find the perfect amount something hard to get.
I suffer from being to nice. It was really hard to make myself kill the players pet bear, (in the end i failed this was in a dark dnd game), but it was the right thing to do. it made them see just how calous and cruel the world (and their enemy was).

theres aline in the books:
people who looking and are thouched by the supernatual get hurt,
People who hide and ignore the supernatual get hurt worse.

You've got to avoid going to far with the hurt, or you'll hit CoC where your killing of 3-7 players a session, and driving the rest in sane.

And you've got to avoid going to far with the "nothing good can happen" or you'll hit grimdark.... and 40K has that copyrighted.

so long as in as some stage the players get the occational victory,
even if it turns our to be hollyu (esp. if it turns out to be hollow).
you playing WoD right.

but then again this varies whith you GM style, and with the game:
Mortals is ment to be about running away. (that's why it's a call Mortals: the Running)
Vampire isn't ment to be horibly tramaitic: it's gothic horror in the modern world.

Warewolf can go multiple ways (they all can): it's about countolling the monster within you... or it's a fast paced action-horror slaying everything in your path.

as a rule WoD is ment to be traumatic. there are now placed in my home city that i get shivers going to.
and that's a grood thing

[Mordokai]

I personally don't think this to be too much, but others might disagree with me. Like people have said, know your players. If you suspect that it might offend or annoy them, don't run it. Otherwise, go for it. I know I'd have quite a blast in a campaign like this.

[BrainFreeze]

I like it, you'll have to build up to it with dreams and such given the character's skills/spheres if using Mage.

Kinda reminicent of the Silent Hill 2 ending where you were actually just a crazy person walking around killing people with a 2x4.

[Grumman]

My main concern is that this sounds very unfun for an actual game. Unless you have actual win conditions for the players, all you're doing is giving them a choice between getting screwed by Diabolus Ex Machina or sitting down and gibbering in the corner. Your story is a giant, illusion-based Paladin trap.

[oxinabox]

My main concern is that this sounds very unfun for an actual game. Unless you have actual win conditions for the players, all you're doing is giving them a choice between getting screwed by Diabolus Ex Machina or sitting down and gibbering in the corner. Your story is a giant, illusion-based Paladin trap.

this is World OF Darkness - Your not ment to win.
Your ment to pray and hope and dream that you and your loveones come out with out loosing to much.
A decent memerable WoD game can (though don't nesc. have to) end with your actions indirectly killing everyone you ever loved.
And You knowing it's your fault.

Be gald it's not Cthulu, where you hope to die, rather than go insane.

[Pronounceable]

It's fine. Go for it. But give players some clues as to what's really going on and a choice. Or at least the illusion of a choice so they don't cry train in the end.

[Aik]

It's a horror story - why do you even care about taste? Horror is meant to be upsetting and unsettling.

[GolemsVoice]

We have a very good DM that runs semi-regular Hunter games with us. Everytime, the chance of failure is there, and more than once we had an outcome that was less than fantastic, but all the players enjoyed it because they knew they had a fair chance, but failed it/didn't use it. But we always had the chance to get out on top, as far as you can in World of Darkness.

In your example, there is no way to win. There isn't even a way to win with sacrifices. There is just the option to loose, or to loose even more. I understand that this is classic WoD (as the Dm once said: "You can't win, you can only loose a little less every day"), but when the players realize they never even got a chance to achieve anything, I think it's pointless and frustrating.

My personal opinion as a player: the basic story is good. Classic WoD as I said. But you should avoid doing this to often, or it won't be a game (which is about competitio against somebody or for something) as much as a session of "how bad are we going to get screwed today" where nothing the players do amounts to anything more than death and despair. In such a game, why bother playing at all?

[potatocubed]

Long-time WoD veteran here, and I think it's a fine idea. I do, however, concur with the others that you need some sort of 'out' for the PCs.

Perhaps present the destruction of the tower as the obvious and easy 'solution' to their predicament, then scatter some clues around that suggest an alternative way out. That way, if they do decide to push the library down the hill it becomes an actual decision - do we risk death and maiming to take the hard way out, or just do things the easy way? - rather than something they had to do.

[valadil]

I object moreso on the basis that the PCs are doomed to fail than that it's in bad taste. You'd need the right group of players to pull this one off.

[Shinizak]

Okay, so if I make sure there is a way out, then it's a good game? Can do.

[rakkoon]

Indeed, give them options but the general idea if fine. It is WoD and not Phaeries and Flowers after all

[Tiki Snakes]

Yeah, seems fine. I agree with the sentiment of others to some degree though, you should allow for the possibility of the players bucking their fate and trying to avert the inevitable.

That doesn't necessarily mean you need to work out how ahead of time. If they pick up enough on the clues, let them talk out what they COULD do, and if they come up with a good enough idea with a logical rational as to why it should work, simply go with it.

Sounds cool, in general, if obviously quite grim.

[Totally Guy]

Indeed, give them options but the general idea if fine. It is WoD and not Phaeries and Flowers after all

Unless you're playing Changeling: The Lost.

Then Faeries are your tormentors and the flowers grapple threateningly at your feet.