[3.5E] Knight/Dragon Shaman

[mummy162]

The more I think about it, the better this idea sounds. Both classes (featured in PHB2) rely on primarily Strength, Charisma, and Constitution. A knight could improve his leader-ish abilities with Draconic Aura and the totem dragon's special ability, once it affects allies at 13th (?) level. The knight could also fry anything that passes by him with a line or cone of dragon breath. The dragon shaman, on the other hand, would gain a D12 HD, much better armor, shield, and weapon proficiencies, and bonuses in melee combat form Knights' Challenge. A dragon shaman's totem dragons would be limited to lawful ones, but I think it's a worthy tradeoff. If playing a gestalt character, you wouldn't need to worry about which one to start out with, but playing normally I'd start out as a knight to gain the most HP possible, heavy armor, and martial weapon proficiencies as soon as possible. I can totally imagine an LE knight/dragon shaman serving a blue dragon. Comments?

EDIT: Also, how cool would it be to have a 19th level gestalt flying around, swooping down to scare the bejeesus out of everyone, breath fire, and slash someone with a sword?

[Sinfire Titan]

You shouldn't bump that soon. This isn't a chat room.

[Touchy]

The more I think about it, the better this idea sounds. Both classes (featured in PHB2) rely on primarily Strength, Charisma, and Constitution. A knight could improve his leader-ish abilities with Draconic Aura and the totem dragon's special ability, once it affects allies at 13th (?) level. The knight could also fry anything that passes by him with a line or cone of dragon breath. The dragon shaman, on the other hand, would gain a D12 HD, much better armor, shield, and weapon proficiencies, and bonuses in melee combat form Knights' Challenge. A dragon shaman's totem dragons would be limited to lawful ones, but I think it's a worthy tradeoff. If playing a gestalt character, you wouldn't need to worry about which one to start out with, but playing normally I'd start out as a knight to gain the most HP possible, heavy armor, and martial weapon proficiencies as soon as possible. I can totally imagine an LE knight/dragon shaman serving a blue dragon. Comments?

EDIT: Also, how cool would it be to have a 19th level gestalt flying around, swooping down to scare the bejeesus out of everyone, breath fire, and slash someone with a sword?

You have to follow this code, as posted on crystal keep.
Knight’s Code – A Knight desires to win due to skill, not trickery. He/she follows the following rule:
– You forgo the +2 bonus you receive when Flanking, though your ‘partner’ still receives the bonus.
– Never strike a Flat-Footed Opponent. Allow the opponent to become ready before attacking.
– Never do lethal damage to a Helpless Opponent. Nonlethal damage is acceptable.
Violating any of these rules causes you to loose a daily use of Knight’s Challenge. If they are all expended,
you receive a –2 penalty on attacks & saves for the rest of the day.
You do not require non-Knights to follow your Code (since if they were honorable, they would already be
following it).
but other than that have fun trying.

[Gnaeus]

If you like its flavor, go for it.

It is pretty clearly a weak tier 5 as a normal build and even worse in gestalt. Dragon Shaman and Knight share the same weaknesses. Most notably, a lack of an effective damage dealing option in combat, and poor utility out of combat. The dragon shaman breath weapon scales really badly as a damage source. A gestalt Knight/Dragon Shaman still probably couldn't take a single class warblade or crusader, let alone a tier 1 caster.

But if you like it, and that is the level of optimization that your group runs, enjoy.

[mummy162]

If you like its flavor, go for it.

It is pretty clearly a weak tier 5 as a normal build and even worse in gestalt. Dragon Shaman and Knight share the same weaknesses. Most notably, a lack of an effective damage dealing option in combat, and poor utility out of combat. The dragon shaman breath weapon scales really badly as a damage source. A gestalt Knight/Dragon Shaman still probably couldn't take a single class warblade or crusader, let alone a tier 1 caster.

But if you like it, and that is the level of optimization that your group runs, enjoy.

Right now my group is pretty small. I feel like if my group got bigger this combo would make a great high AC defender (the natural armor bonuses would help). Assuming there is an ranged/spellcaster class to back it up and provide some damage, this combination could keep the ranged/spellcaster unit protected well.

[Person_Man]

I'm a big fan of the Knight. But IMO, the Dragon Shaman just isn't worth it, regardless of whether you multiclass or go gestalt. Let's examine what the DS gets:

BAB: 3/4 - not enough to use Power Attack feats.

Skills: 2 Skill Points per level from a poor list. You can't get Spot and Listen, so you can't be the party scout. You can't get Diplomacy or Sense Motive, so despite your high Cha you can't be the party face. You have Search, but not Trapfinding or Disable Device. You can't get UMD or Tumble. And some of the Totem choices add very odd Skills combinations (Blue adds Hide but not Move Silently, Bronze adds Disguise but not Bluff, etc).

Draconic Aura: One of your two core class abilities. It's a great idea. But unfortunately, it scales very slowly, and most of the auras are poorly written. For example, Senses gives you a minor bonus to Listen and Spot, which are not class Skills. Vigor only works up to 50% of your hit points.

Breath Weapon: Your other core class ability. It's nifty. But unfortunately, it also scales very slowly. At 20th level it deals 10d6 (Reflex for half) damage. That's an average of 35 points of damage per enemy, IF they fail their Save AND don't have Improved Evasion AND they don't have energy immunity or resistance.

All of the other class abilities can by affordable magic items.

So in summary, I think it's great fluff, but a poor crunch decision.