Turning/Rebuking from Domains

[Coy]

If a cleric was to take, lets say the fire domain, the granted power is to turn/destroy water//rebuke/command fire creatures. But using up one of these attempts, does it use up a clerics turn/rebuke undead?

To put it in maths, lets say a cleric has +4 Cha.
Does he get -

3+4= 7 total turn/rebuke attempts 'pool', of either undead or elemental.

OR

7 undead turn/rebuke attempts.
7 elemental turn/rebuke attempts.

Thoughts?

[Pluto]

Thoughts?

There's nothing to indicate these would burn Turn Undead attempts. I think it's pretty clear you have two seperate pools.

(But note that most Divine feats specify using Undead turnings, in case that's the reason you're asking.)

[Chrono22]

Granted power: Turn or destroy water creatures as a good cleric turns undead.

The granted power is that you are able to turn water creatures as a good cleric turns undead. It does not say it grants you the ability to turn in the first place.

Use these abilities a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

I think this last bit is a use limitation. No matter how many turn attempts you have a day, you can only use them to turn water creatures 3+cha mod times.

[Dusk Eclipse]

AFAIK they are different and don't stack therefore giving you 7 attempt to turn undead and 7 attempts to turn fire creatures.

DMM clerics abuse this to persist, quicker, scultp or whatever metamagic they have on the fly

[Sinfire Titan]

AFAIK they are different and don't stack therefore giving you 7 attempt to turn undead and 7 attempts to turn fire creatures.

DMM clerics abuse this to persist, quicker, scultp or whatever metamagic they have on the fly

Turn Elemental/Plant, etc can't fuel DMM by RAW. It requires Turn Undead or a special ability that states it can be used to fuel Divine Feats (Channel Incarnum, Destroy Undead, Rebuke Dragons).

[Coy]

But regardless of DMM RAW, we should say threre are two different pools? (or more if you had more elemental domains?).

IMO i would argue this is the case, because of the situation nature of the use along with the interpretation of the wording.

That the general concencus?

[PhoenixRivers]

Granted power: Turn or destroy water creatures as a good cleric turns undead.

The granted power is that you are able to turn water creatures as a good cleric turns undead. It does not say it grants you the ability to turn in the first place.

Actually, it does. It doesn't grant you the ability to turn undead, but it does grant you turn attempts.

"You are able to turn water creatures..." that's granting you the ability.
"...as a good cleric turns undead" that shows what rules you use to resolve it.

They can be used to fuel anything that refers to expending "Turn attempts" without referring to "Turn undead". They cannot fuel anything that requires expending uses of "Turn undead", though.

The "use these abilities a total of 3+Cha times per day" line? Refers to the turning of one type (in Fire domain's case, Water creatures) and the rebuking of another (in Fire domain's case, Fire creatures).

So a level 7 cleric with the Water domain and 14 Cha would have:
Turn undead 5/day
(Turn Fire or Rebuke Water) 5/day

If the same cleric also had the plant domain?
Turn undead 5/day
(Turn Fire or Rebuke Water) 5/day
Rebuke Plant creatures 5/day

If the same cleric also had the Extra Turning feat?
Turn undead 9/day
(Turn Fire or Rebuke Water) 9/day
Rebuke Plant creatures 9/day

Now, will DMM work with this? Yes. It requires Turn Undead, but the errata on it removes the part that refers to expending "Turn undead" attempts. All remaining wordage only refers to expending "turn attempts".

As for other Divine feats? Depends. If it states you have to expend "Turn Undead", then the other turns can't be used. If it just says "Turn attempt", then the other turns can.

Domain Spontaneity? No. It states you must expend 'Turn Undead' uses.
Divine Spell Power? Yes.
Empower Turning? No.
(Any Divine Feat from Complete Warrior)? No.

[Mongoose87]

Actually, the "as" in there refers to time, so you can only turn elementals when a Good cleric is turning undead.

[Sinfire Titan]

But regardless of DMM RAW, we should say threre are two different pools? (or more if you had more elemental domains?).

IMO i would argue this is the case, because of the situation nature of the use along with the interpretation of the wording.

That the general concencus?

Yes.

Actually, the "as" in there refers to time, so you can only turn elementals when a Good cleric is turning undead.

Riiiiiiiiiiiight. I don't believe you!

[Pluto]

Actually, the "as" in there refers to time, so you can only turn elementals when a Good cleric is turning undead.

You don't know how tempted I am to use that.

[Curmudgeon]

Now, will DMM work with this? Yes. It requires Turn Undead, but the errata on it removes the part that refers to expending "Turn undead" attempts. All remaining wordage only refers to expending "turn attempts".

I don't think so. From Complete Divine Errata, page 1:

Page 80: Divine Metamagic feat
The boldface text needs to be added to the Benefit paragraph of the feat description:

When you take this feat, choose a metamagic feat that you have. This feat applies only to that metamagic feat. As a free action, you can take the energy from turning or rebuking undead and use it to apply a metamagic feat to divine spells that you know. . . .

As you see, the "turning or rebuking undead" part is still there. This erratum only adds restrictions on Divine Metamagic; it doesn't remove any.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

Turn Elemental/Plant, etc can't fuel DMM by RAW. It requires Turn Undead or a special ability that states it can be used to fuel Divine Feats (Channel Incarnum, Destroy Undead, Rebuke Dragons).

Sunfire knows what's going on. Most everyone else (GJ Curmudgeon) here seems confused.

[Curmudgeon]

Sunfire knows what's going on. Most everyone else (GJ Curmudgeon) here seems confused.

Gee, since I'm in agreement with Sinfire Titan, I don't see how that's possible.

[Optimystik]

Sunfire knows what's going on. Most everyone else (GJ Curmudgeon) here seems confused.

Irony