(3.5) Building a campaign world, seeking advice on races

[Gnorman]

So, long story short: I'm making a new campaign world. Nothing truly out of the ordinary - epic fantasy, bit o' steampunk, and no friggin' elves.

Like, seriously. No elves. Anywhere. Like gnomes in Dark Sun, elves have gone the way of the dinosaur. In fact, so did halflings. And probably gnomes too. Half-orcs are right out. Maybe the dwarves too (except I like the dwarves). Hell, I may even throw out humans and start all over from scratch. It's a work in progress.

So obviously I need to fill some niches for my players. And I'm hoping to put together a catalogue of races for the game world that not only is comprised of fun and balanced races, but also, you know, makes sense. Geographical sense. Like, lizardfolk live in warm marshes. Goliaths live on the steppes and plateaus.

So if you were to eliminate most of the core races, what would you replace them with? What kind of ecological, geographical, and demographical holes should be filled?

Assume the world is kind of like Eberron, in that there's a place for everything in D&D in it. I'm open to pretty much anything, even homebrew, but let's try to shy away from most of the anthropomorphic animal races - not really my style. Except thri-kreen. Thri-kreen are awesome.

Hell, even just suggestions for your favorite non-core races.

[The Dark Fiddler]

I don't think Gnolls get enough love, personally.

If you ever have a specific niche you need filled, I'd love to try homebrewing something. I always wanted to try homebrewing a race...

[AslanCross]

Goblinoids. Like Eberron did, give Goblinoids a respectable place in your setting. Remove the level adjustment from the hobgoblins (seriously, they don't need it), and have them essentially replace the elves. No more soft and lithe guys. Have some agile AND tough guys.

[The Dark Fiddler]

I'd like to note here that I also feel you should have some race living in the woods in villages. Sort of like Ewoks, but everyone seems to hate them, so I won't say that.

[Gnorman]

I'd like to note here that I also feel you should have some race living in the woods in villages. Sort of like Ewoks, but everyone seems to hate them, so I won't say that.

See, that's the design space I am trying to fill now that elves are dead. And ewoks. Man. I can't... quite decide which I hate more. Elves or ewoks. Tough call.

Goblinoids, yes. Big fan. I'm going to include blues as well, and eliminate the LA on both blues and hobgoblins. Bugbears we'll see about, but most of the goblinoids I am totally ecstatic to include as genuine, fleshed-out options.

[The Dark Fiddler]

See, that's the design space I am trying to fill now that elves are dead. And ewoks. Man. I can't... quite decide which I hate more. Elves or ewoks. Tough call.

*Cracks open the rarely used homebrew portion of my brain* I'll whip something up for you completely unlike elves and ewoks. And anthropomorphic animals. And hopefully Tarzan.

Edit: Huh, that doesn't leave a lot of options... I'll do it anyway!

...do you have anything against non-anthropomorphic animal races?

[Draz74]

While I personally like certain versions of elves, I approve of the strategy of making a setting distinctive by taking away some of the cliche races, rather than adding new races. Make it so that every race you actually allow to continue existing has a well-defined niche and feels like a major part of the setting. (Having obscure, rare creatures in a setting makes sense ... but such creatures should not be intelligent humanoids.)

I approve of your mentioning lizardfolk. Now there's a classic race that never gets any love. Make them one of the main races in your setting.

Normally I don't think a world should include both lizardfolk and troglodytes, but if lizardfolk are a very major race on the surface and trogs are the main subterranian foe, I could see it. Give them a rivalry sort of like what the elves and the drow have in other settings.

Planetouched are often a good option to flesh out into a fully-functional race. Feytouched, for example, could be your main forest race. Though, hmmm, if you hate elves, you might not be fond of feytouched either. Genasi are good, if any of the Elements are an important thematic element in your world. (You can even pick just one kind; for example, Earth Genasi might exist without the other three types.)

For an ironic twist, you could make Thri-Kreen the iconic "forest" race. Bugs live in forests. Jumping is useful in forests. It works.

Really, if you have thri-kreen, goblins, hobgoblins, blues, bugbears, lizardfolk, and goliaths, and you give them all rich enough fluff, I think that's plenty of sentient humanoid options. And that's even if you leave out humans.

One last random thought: I would like to see a major fungoid race sometime. That could work well for "forest," too.

[Gnorman]

*Cracks open the rarely used homebrew portion of my brain* I'll whip something up for you completely unlike elves and ewoks. And anthropomorphic animals. And hopefully Tarzan.

Edit: Huh, that doesn't leave a lot of options... I'll do it anyway!

...do you have anything against non-anthropomorphic animal races?

So... just animals then?

I was thinking perhaps a brachiating species. Maybe even one that already exists - I believe the choices are... ratatosks... and vanara? Or at least something inspired by them.

When it comes to the whole anthropomorphic animal thing, I just like to keep them as human as possible. Shifters and thri-kreen are about as animalistic as I'm willing to go. And thri-kreen are acceptable only because they're so alien. I don't know, something about insects and reptiles are acceptable to me in a way that mammals, birds, and even anthropomorphic fish really aren't. Weird? Maybe.

Planetouched are often a good option to flesh out into a fully-functional race. Feytouched, for example, could be your main forest race. Though, hmmm, if you hate elves, you might not be fond of feytouched either. Genasi are good, if any of the Elements are an important thematic element in your world. (You can even pick just one kind; for example, Earth Genasi might exist without the other three types.)

Big fan of planetouched - tieflings especially will be a major race, even if I throw out humans. Feytouched is fine - I like my fey creatures distant and capricious, likely to play with you or leave you to the wolves depending on their whimsy. Elves are just too overdone and too arrogant for my tastes. I like creatures that are completely different from the norm.

Changelings, for example, are going to be my "feytouched" - I'm giving them a CHA bonus in the setting, and they're going to be descended from fey rather than doppelgangers.

[Da Beast]

I've always wanted a campaign world without humans. Seriously, why does every race have to have a niche environment but humans?

If you have Stormrack, look up Hadozees. It's a race of ape-men with flying squirrel skin flaps for gliding. They're (for some reason) flavored as a race of boat dwelling sailors, but they could easily be refluffed as forest dwellers to replace elves.

Edit: also, consider replacing gliding with brachiation (C Adv) as a bonus feat.

[Gnorman]

I've always wanted a campaign world without humans. Seriously, why does every race have to have a niche environment but humans?

If you have Stormrack, look up Hadozees. It's a race of ape-men with flying squirrel skin flaps for gliding. They're (for some reason) flavored as a race of boat dwelling sailors, but they could easily be refluffed as forest dwellers to replace elves.

Oh man I forgot about Hadozee. They're like... the love child of a vanara and a ratatosk.

God my ewok sense is tingling but I LIKE THE MONKEY MEN.

[The Dark Fiddler]

One last random thought: I would like to see a major fungoid race sometime. That could work well for "forest," too.

This would be totally awesome.

[Sinfire Titan]

Viletooth Lizardfolk from Dragon Magic are fairly interesting (if you ignore what it says about adding to the MM version).


Skarn and Rilkan are a personal favorite. As is Warforged.

[dragonfan6490]

I say you put in Elves no, wait, Elvaan, wait, damn. Just kidding, I personally like Elves, but settings without them are interesting. And I approve of your disposal of the Halflings.

[BRC]

I find rather than sticking in odd-races willy-nilly, it's a better idea to put new twists on existing races. Maybe rather than being conquering hordes, Hobgoblins have a well-ordered society run by a massive bureaucracy. Dwarves, with such a cultural focus on mining and smithing, are reliant on other communities for things like food. I could imagine a duel Dwarven/Halfling society, with a small number of dwarves living underground, digging and building, while Halflings live above ground farming.

[ZombieGenesis]

I faced something similar when planning for my fantasy novel- didn't want any elves, or gnomes, or dwarves. Not that I dislike them, not at all, I just wanted to make something more unique than that. As much as I love J.R.R I can't help but feel the existence of a 'typical' fantasy setting is a bit of an insult to the term 'fantasy'.
I went mostly for humanoid races of my own design. Large, semi-beast people from the north, short but slender dark skinned people of the south with gemstone eyes and more canine teeth than a usual humanoid. I even went semi towards an orc race but decided to make them mindless, and instead of the usual bulking bulldozers they're freakishly tall and gangly.

If you want the conventional D&D races of course then there are plenty of books that supply varying kinds, but if you decide to pop for homebrew there are plenty of odd concoctions and creations that you can come up with. Forget elves, let's have... magical cannibal bear-people!

[Altima]

Goblins, Orcs, Hobgoblins.

Gnolls, harpies, lamias.

Medusa, yuan-ti.

Minotaurs, Sahuagin.

There's also fey, like Thorns, Sirines, and the like.

>.>

<.<

Half-elves.

[Fhaolan]

Do Centaurs and their ilk fall under too 'furry'? There's all sorts of things you can do with them. I'm thinking Hybsils might make reasonable elf-niche-replacements. Smaller than centaurs, deer-based, etc. Very foresty and fae.

[Dimers]

Spiritfolk from OA would make good forestdwellers, and their types are infinitely expandible -- e.g. fungus spiritfolk They're sorta elfy, but more on the "fey" end of things. But they really only make sense in a game setting that either plays up the dangerous mystery of The Woods, or else has lots of involvement with spirits in other areas.

[JonestheSpy]

I tend to make this recommendation a lot, but I'll do it again: read Perdido Street Station by China Mieville. It's a steampunk/fantasy hybrid in a world with all sorts of weird races, nothing even vaguely based on the European mythology and folklore that is the basis for yer Standard Fantasy World (tm). Except vampires, he's got a few of those.

[NemoUtopia]

Do away with humans entirely...or rather, almost entirely. Humans once existed but are now extinct because of some cultural/deific event that created the planetouched races as native outsiders from all the living humans. So now you have the four elemental and two moral races filling all of your surface cultural needs...you can even have one of them be a slave race. Earth take the place of dwarves, water make up the seafarers and live mostly in coastal regions (or near lakes), air is ubiquitously spread out (they replace 'standard human'), and fire fulfills a role of your choice. Alternately, fire takes the place of Dwarves and earth is the 'slave race' for the campaign setting.

Tieflings and aasimar can replace your elf/drow dichotomy, but doesn't have to be surface/underworld. Forest/swamp actually makes a great conflict, and can focus on both the life/death aspect of good vs evil as well as the pure/coruption. The arid, desert areas are primarially a lizard race or races: dragon-kin, low-ECL variety Yuan-ti, and others I don't have immediate access to. The mountainous areas do away with orcs and giants (except goliaths?), and are the center of true goblinoid society. Maybe ruled by blues, goblins as standard citizens, and hobgoblins as elite citizens (but lesser than blues)?

This fills all of the coneivable niches in the world, gives a large pool of options to players, and as a bonus the races are humanoid/esque while markedly NOT human. Reading some of the thoughts above, you could make other monstrous races included, such as a specific mountain range being the last hold out of kobold and gnoll society against the goblinoids. The Hadozee could be somewhat Viking but come from an area that is like the border between Canada and the US: forested but with harsh and long winters.

[GenPol]

I don't think Gnolls get enough love, personally.

+1

I would go for gnolls myself, because I can't think of any other campaign that makes much use for them, which I don't understand.

But on designing your own races, maybe design the terrain first, and then build humanoids that would logically evolve from there.

EDIT: Kobolds could be pretty cool too...

[Randel]

Hmm...

For woodland areas then something like shifters or gnolls, like wolfmen or something. They don't go for the whole 'live with nature' thing, they are the predators that hide in the darkness and attack travelers. Maybe a few of them have learned to live with other races mostly trading stuff to get iron weapons or something. Or maybe like wolfpacks they follow whoever is strongest and when the Empire of Man shows up with their spears and weapons they decide to go along with them kind of like domesticated dogs.

Other races call the 'defectors' to be cowardly lapdogs but they have basically figured out to pick their battles and choose the side that gets them what they want. They are the monstrous race that is totally willing to work with the civilized ones if they are allowed to.


For wetlands... maybe some sort of troll-like creature. Like the bridge troll in three billy goats gruff. They are big semi-aquatic creatures that are good at swimming and grabbing things with their teeth and hands... also wrestling with alligators.

The Water Trolls are popular around coastal areas, rivers and swamps. They can't breath underwater but occasionally make their homes in underwater caves or other places people can't follow. While not really a social race they do have 'tribes' or a sort where they meet together and trade. If someone threatens the area or kills one of them then the whole tribe bands together to seeks revenge on whoever killed them. Water Trolls are somewhat similar to orcs but instead of inhabiting areas where nobody goes, they tend to go for watery areas where they can often run into people or travelers. Tribes may sometimes find all the watery areas inhabited or controlled by dangerous creatures or civilizations, in which case they tend to go nomadic until they can find a suitable place to live.

Civilized Water Trolls are strong and are quite capable or living on land like other races but retain their skills at swimming and can use their strong arms and reflexes in battle.



Other sort of half-ideas:

The Tanuki, short raccoon dog creatures from a distant land. They possess the magical ability to transform into inanimate objects and otherwise blend into their surroundings.

Noppera-bo a race of cursed humans whose faces have been stolen by a dark god ages ago. They have darkvision (despite their complete lack of eyes) and a slightly increased intelligence... though their lack of faces really hits their charisma. Noppera-bo tend to wear masks at all times to cover their faceless heads. Many of them delve into magic or try to contact demons to get their faces back while other just go along with it.

Roklings bear a resemblance to animated statues. Being made out of stone, they are slow but strong. They eat rock, have no real need to breath, and don't tire easily.

[Asheram]

How about the return of the Unseelie court then? Wicked fairies are always fun to deal with.

[Masaioh]

Create a large-size race. AFAIK, not many campaigns have those.

Also, I'm curious to hear the fluff behind elves going extinct, if you've given it any thought.

[NemoUtopia]

Create a large-size race. AFAIK, not many campaigns have those.

Also, I'm curious to hear the fluff behind elves going extinct, if you've given it any thought.

Extinct assumes they existed in the campaign world to begin with.

[Masaioh]

Extinct assumes they existed in the campaign world to begin with.

Sorry, that's what I assumed when OP used the dinosaur metaphor.

[lsfreak]

While it looks like you're going a different direction, my vote is almost always on eliminating everything (or almost everything) except humans. Replace 'races' with 'cultures,' having cultural stats rather than racial stats. Anyone raised in a specific culture gets that culture's stats, no matter their actual lineage, unless maybe they had some kind of specific training.

Alternatively, I like promoting goblins, giants/large monstrous humanoids, and fey to more frontline roles.

[Gnorman]

One last random thought: I would like to see a major fungoid race sometime. That could work well for "forest," too.

Trolls. Made of mushrooms.

I find rather than sticking in odd-races willy-nilly, it's a better idea to put new twists on existing races. Maybe rather than being conquering hordes, Hobgoblins have a well-ordered society run by a massive bureaucracy. Dwarves, with such a cultural focus on mining and smithing, are reliant on other communities for things like food. I could imagine a duel Dwarven/Halfling society, with a small number of dwarves living underground, digging and building, while Halflings live above ground farming.

Yes, but: I want to put a sharp focus on the ignored races here.

There's also fey, like Thorns, Sirines, and the like.

And Killoren, whom I totally forgot about. Total forest niche.

I tend to make this recommendation a lot, but I'll do it again: read Perdido Street Station by China Mieville. It's a steampunk/fantasy hybrid in a world with all sorts of weird races, nothing even vaguely based on the European mythology and folklore that is the basis for yer Standard Fantasy World (tm). Except vampires, he's got a few of those.

Read it, loved the cactus people and frog men.

Lots of stuff

I like this a lot. Planetouched are fun - I hadn't thought to use genasi.

So the campaign world is shaping up something like this: eons ago, the world was a typical fantasy world. Elves, dwarves, gnomes, etc. But a demonic invasion changed all that, and left many of the races extinct. The dwarves left their axes in demon gullets, while the elves slowly lost a great battle of guerilla warfare and attrition. Halflings and gnomes scattered and were hunted for sport. The battles were long since fought, but it left the planet with great jagged scars, a rush of volcanic activity, and a lingering fiendish influence. The world is still full of demons, cultists, and hidden evil, but civilization is finally able to grow and prosper once again.

The humans were used as a slave race by the fiends, and when they were finally driven from the world by celestial forces, tieflings and aasimar were left as a result, to continue the grand conflict between good and evil. Both races have built empires, and are constantly at war with one another. The tieflings, preferring the warmer, steamier climate, moved southwards and come into conflict with the reptilian races. Think the Mediterranean, Roman and Greek influences. The aasimar expanded north, and have run headlong into the goblinod empire. Germanic and northern European influences.

The world, though scarred, is lush and verdant. It's mostly warm and tropical, though arid deserts exist. Lizardfolk thrive in the swamps and jungles, constructing rigid societies ruled by priests and mystics. They'll probably end up being a blend of Egyptian and Aztec influences. The deserts are ruled by nomadic thri-kreen, tending to great flocks of beetles and guarding their precious water sources fiercely. Like Bedouins with exoskeletons.

Goblins have formed an efficient culture (think Imperial China) with a strict caste system: blues are the bureaucrats and philosophers, hobgoblins are the warrior caste, and goblins are the laborers and common people. Bugbears reject the system, and live as bandits and criminals. They have a small but bustling empire. Just across a small sea lies a much smaller land populated by kalashtar-inspired psychic humans - they survived the war by making a defensive pact with some otherworldly entities.

North of them are frost-tipped peaks populated by orcs and goliaths, who maintain an uneasy peace and rivalry. The orcs live beneath the cliffs in the pines, while the goliaths populate the steppes and mountaintops above. Mongolian, Russian, and Native American influences, most likely.

The warforged were created by the gnomes before they were wiped from the face of the earth. Many of them are ancient beings, but legends tell of a forge operational deep in the heart of a volcano that still churns out new warforged - a forge that may be run by the last living dwarf.

Changeling are half-fey creatures switched as infants. They instinctively take on the appearance of their parents and are raised without knowing their true nature. Their fey parents may remember them and return years later to instruct them in their heritage, but many changelings go through life without even knowing what they are capable of.

Stout: Lizardfolk, orc, gnoll, thri-kreen, goliath, warforged

High Men: Tiefling, aasimar, blue

Mundane: Human (maybe), Hobgoblin, goblin

Fairy: Changeling

Lately, I'm thinking that the "gods" of this world may simply be ascended outsiders, demons and angels who stuck around and became deities to watch over their flock.

I'm going for grimdark, but not Warhammer grimdark. A blend of that, Dawnforge's epicness, and Eberron's steampunkiness - the tiefling empire will certainly be all about clockwork and magitech, I think.

[Altima]

Hmm, demonic invasion seems so...overdone.

Perhaps you could cause the major extinction to be the Final Battle Between Good and Evil.

First option is to have it between, as you said, celestials and fiends, with the 'civilized' races caught in the middle, and all of them running around and screaming about why both sides are, and eventually do, destroying them.

Second option would be to have said civilized races' gods do the final showdown. Since no one really cares about the non-demis deities, they're the ones who survive to guide and proper their chosen races, while the elves, dwarves, and human deities (and races) wipe each other out.

Bonus points where if the demis were wiped out, none of the good/evil forces considered the dirt-ball important enough to even fight over.

[Gnorman]

Hmm, demonic invasion seems so...overdone.

Perhaps you could cause the major extinction to be the Final Battle Between Good and Evil.

First option is to have it between, as you said, celestials and fiends, with the 'civilized' races caught in the middle, and all of them running around and screaming about why both sides are, and eventually do, destroying them.

Second option would be to have said civilized races' gods do the final showdown. Since no one really cares about the non-demis deities, they're the ones who survive to guide and proper their chosen races, while the elves, dwarves, and human deities (and races) wipe each other out.

Bonus points where if the demis were wiped out, none of the good/evil forces considered the dirt-ball important enough to even fight over.

Yeah, demonic invasion's been done - but I want to do the aftermath, not the invasion itself. What happens after a world has been devastated by the Blood War? Kind of post-post-apocalyptic, if you will.

But I like the idea of having the gods of elves and orcs destroy each other, dwarves and goblins... that kind of thing. Now perhaps there are no real gods, just powerful outsiders and burgeoning new immortals.