Unarmored Duskblade help 3.5

[AzazelAshheart]

I need help making an effective duskblade, but I want to make her unarmored. The premise is to make a Drow (Eberron surface world styled) that wields magic and and an oversized Katar or Kukri and can survive almost anything i.e. live through several encounters.

Two Ideas I've had were:

Going Monk 1/Duskblade 5/Daggerspell Mage ~

or

Going Duskblade ~/Unarmed Swordsage ~

The weapons would be one wepon that is big but agile, and perhaps a braid blade or two. The armor is nothing. Everything else is up in the air.

help please >.<

[BRC]

Is there a reason you really want no armor, because that's a major handicap. Even if the lack of AC bonus can be overcome, the other magic armor special abilities are useful. It's possible your DM may let you enchant a shirt or something (Treating it as armor with a starting AC bonus of 0), but I don't know how much you can count on that.

[Optimystik]

Agreed with BRC - why Monk? Wisdom is a dump stat, and even if you go with Carmendine Monk or Kung-Fu Genius, your Monk bonuses won't stack with the Duskblade's Armored Mage ability.

If you want to be an unarmored spellcaster with a sword, just be a monk/wizard - Drow will give you longsword anyway.

[SilverStar]

Abjurant Champion.

Just make darned sure your DM will allow you to use Extra Spell to grab the "armor" and "shield" spells, because I don't remember if duskblades get them or not.

Also doublecheck his or her houserules on whether or not abjurant armor is usable with mage armor.

[Optimystik]

Also doublecheck his or her houserules on whether or not abjurant armor is usable with mage armor.

Why wouldn't it be? It's explicitly allowed, even to the point of being the example.

[SilverStar]

I know it's the example, but I seem to recall that Mage Armor is in fact of the Conjuration school.

Thereby making it ineligible for use with the abjurant armor ability.

I have never had this issue (mainly due to the fact that the sample NPC is using it just fine) but some may see it differently. I'd hate to suggest something to someone and have the idea get kicked in the 'nads due to insufficient research.

Failing mage armor, there's a nice spell from the BoED that works.

[Optimystik]

I know it's the example, but I seem to recall that Mage Armor is in fact of the Conjuration school.

Thereby making it ineligible for use with the abjurant armor ability.

Oh, good catch - completely missed that.

Well, checking the CM Errata, it looks like they ruled against Mage Armor being eligible.

[SilverStar]

Some groups houserule it in.

Again, failing Mage Armor, you can use the BoED one, because it is of the correct school. Or make your own.

Duskblade seems rather ick for this idea. Sorcerer into Abjurant Champion into Swiftblade would work rather well here.

[Optimystik]

Agreed - Duskblade's whole schtick is making armored casting not a big deal. Take that advantage away and you have a gimp wizard who studied under snooty tree-huggers.

[Saph]

Duskblade into Abjurant Champion will work, but your DM will have to agree to a couple of things:

a) The generous reading of Extra Spell, allowing you to take spells from outside the Duskblade class list,
b) Ruling Mage Armour to work with the Abjurant Champion's Abjurant Armour ability.

If both of those are OKed, you can take Extra Spell twice to get yourself Mage Armour and Shield and have quite a respectable AC by level 9 or so. You'll start off slow, though, since Extra Spell won't get you either of those spells until level 6.

Alternatively, just ask the DM if you can swap out some of the Duskblade spell list for Mage Armour and Shield. It's a reasonable enough request.

[Cyclocone]

Oh, good catch - completely missed that.

Well, checking the CM Errata, it looks like they ruled against Mage Armor being eligible.

Abjurant Champion, the Mage Armor-based PrC that doesn't work on Mage Armor...


Anyway, "Big but agile" sounds like an Elven Courtblade -or one of those Giant Scimitars or whatever they're called.
Two-handed, finessable, eligible for Power Attack and with a good threat range on top; requires EWP though.

But really, if you're making an unarmored fighter/mage, you're better off with Wizard(or Sorcerer)/Swiftblade/Abjurant Champion and then using buff-spells like Ironguard and Greater Mirror Image for defence.

[SilverStar]

And as everyone knows, swiftblades can live through pretty much whatever.

[Vizzerdrix]

Battle Sorc, into Abjurant Champion, with a level of Argent Savant (for the 2 point boost to force spells). Enlightened Fist has the flavor you seem to be after, but I'm not so sure it is any good.

[Ormagoden]

Duskblade all the way.
Don't dilute it with anything.

Weapon
Great sword, Elven court blade, Great Scimitar, Guisarm, or Ripper are weapons for you. If you take a reach weapon buy spiked gauntlets too.

Bracers of armor (see if your DM will allowed combined magic enchantments so you can keep with your unarmored theme but not get hit with every attack)

Feats
Toughness (train out after purchasing arcane toughness)
Arcane toughness
Arcane strike
Versatile spell caster
Knowledge devotion

You can live through anything with that set up.

Abjurant champion is fun and all but taking turns to buff in combat is a losing battle. Besides you want to get to full attack arcane channel as fast as possible.

Once you get vampiric strike you're basically immortal anyway.

[SilverStar]

Abjurant champion is fun and all but taking turns to buff in combat is a losing battle. Besides you want to get to full attack arcane channel as fast as possible.

Once you get vampiric strike you're basically immortal anyway.

Swift Abjuration wants a word with you.

[Ormagoden]

Swift Abjuration wants a word with you.

+ ___ to your AC is infinitely less useful than Quickened true strike, arcane strike, vampiric strike with a great sword.

[SilverStar]

Vampiric Touch is temporary HP. Thus, it doesn't heal you; it just gives you a bit of temp HP.

Also, if I recall correctly, you still can't use it against the same creature multiple times, even if you can full-channel.

You might want to have a look at the abjuration spell selections available to you before limiting it to "+X to AC".

[Optimystik]

I thought temp HP don't go away as long as you aren't above maximum when the spell expires. Or was I mistaken?

[SilverStar]

Temporary HP go away after a certain time; in Vampiric Touch's case, one hour.

Now, I'm not saying that temp HP aren't good; they are.

[Ormagoden]

Temp HP keeps you alive. You consistently refresh it to its maximum (which is the target's current hp +10) every turn when you use vampiric strike. While dealing tons of damage via arcane strike, vampiric strike, and a big ol two handed weapon. The most a creature is going to do to you in one turn is drop most or all of your Temp HP down and a little bit of your HP. Next turn you're at max temp HP again. No CR appropriate creature is going to drop you, ever.

The faster you kill it > the less attacks it gets > The less it hits > The higher the chance you have of living.

The best way not to get hit by something is having it lay dead at your feet.

[SilverStar]

Doing all of this says that you'll have virtually no spell slots.

Rings of Wizardry notwithstanding, of course.

CR is a joke, anyway. "CR appropriate" = what?

Though, I do have to say that I agree with your final statement

The best way not to get hit by something is having it lay dead at your feet.

100%.

[Optimystik]

But does that mean Temp HP can kill you?

Say I have 10 HP out of 20 maximum. I Vamp Touch to up to 20, then take 12 HP of damage (bringing me to 8) but I win the fight.

What happens an hour later, assuming I don't get treatment? My interpretation - I would stay at 8, as that is already below my maximum.

But by your explanation, I would lose the 10 HP at the end of the spell, drop to -2 and start dying.

I was basing my interpretation on the following:

Temporary Hit Points

Certain effects give a character temporary hit points. When a character gains temporary hit points, note his current hit point total. When the temporary hit points go away the character’s hit points drop to his current hit point total. If the character’s hit points are below his current hit point total at that time, all the temporary hit points have already been lost and the character’s hit point total does not drop further.

Was I reading this wrong?

[BRC]

Was I reading this wrong?

No, you're not.
The Barbarian's rage descriptor says

The increase in Constitution increases the barbarian’s hit points by 2 points per level, but these hit points go away at the end of the rage when his Constitution score drops back to normal. (These extra hit points are not lost first the way temporary hit points are.)

Which implies that temporary HP is lost before normal HP unless stated otherwise.

[lsfreak]

Losing temporary hit points never kills you.

Having your Con score drop (as from when Rage wears off) can, because that actually changes your hit points.

[faceroll]

Abjurant Champion, the Mage Armor-based PrC that doesn't work on Mage Armor...

How's it Mage Armor-based? Nothing it does has anything to with Mage Armor....

+ ___ to your AC is infinitely less useful than Quickened true strike, arcane strike, vampiric strike with a great sword.

I think quickened dispels are pretty cool, though. But yeah, most of the Abjurations you'd cast would be put up pre-combat.

But by your explanation, I would lose the 10 HP at the end of the spell, drop to -2 and start dying.

Whose explanation? Lost Fang is saying that by using vampiric strike, you can play rocket tag, since every time you hit someone with your rocket, you get to absorb one rocket. You have 40 hp, you hit something for 50 damage, you now have 40 hp and 50 temp hp, then something hits you for 52 damage, which is a pretty standard rocket attack in a game of rocket tag, but thanks to your 50 temp hp, you're only at 38/40.

[AzazelAshheart]

I understand completely about the idea about the duskblade being an armored caster. I like the Battle sorcerer idea, as well as the swiftblade idea.

Would Stormlord be a good idea? I plan on focusing on electricity damage so I was thinking that or elemental savant.

Also is there any weapon that is a bigger sized katar?

[Demons_eye]

How's it Mage Armor-based? Nothing it does has anything to with Mage Armor....

Abjurant Armor (Su): Any time you cast an abjuration
spell that grants you an armor bonus or shield bonus to AC,
you can increase the value of the bonus by your abjurant
champion class level. Abjurant champions rely on mage armor,
shield, and similar spells instead of actual armor.

This ability does. When they made it they forgot mage armor was not abjuration spell IMHO

[Vizzerdrix]

This ability does. When they made it they forgot mage armor was not abjuration spell IMHO

That's why I recommended a dip into Argent Savant. It will boost both mage armor and shield.
Mage armor+6, Or Greater Mage Armor for +8, with a full 5 levels in Abjurant Champion for a +11 shield spell. total =+19 AC. Stack on enchanted Dastanas, Natural armor enchantments, Dex bonus and that ends up as one beefy Defense. Now granted many people say AC isn't the best defense, but start getting a few miss chances on top of it all and you'll be untouchable in no time so you can just pound the living snot out of anything you please

[faceroll]

This ability does. When they made it they forgot mage armor was not abjuration spell IMHO

A wizard also relies on shield & mage armor instead of actual armor. That must mean the whole class is built around something that it isn't built around!!!!

Maybe it's just reminding you that even if you can't clank around in full plate, there's a spell for that. A single line does not a class make.