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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default )3.5( Feats As Rewards

    I'm vaguely certain that this has been discussed before, but as I'm thinking about implementing it in my campaign, I felt this should be re-discussed.

    Basically, the idea is that in addition to loot, PCs could be rewarded with feats. There are several instances of this already in game: You've got the Touchstone Feats, not to mention things like the Otyugh Hole, so it's not like I'm coming up with some sort of groundbreaking idea here.

    The issue in my eyes, however, is how to implement it ingame without making it look...cheesy, I guess. I mean, for example, Fallout 3 has perks which can be gained by completing certain quests, which seems to make sense to me. But should this be the only way to get feats? Furthermore, should certain feats that are deemed...well, let's just says it already, "bad," be given out? By bad, I mean the kinds of feats that aren't good enough to be taken, like Toughness or the ones that give you +2 in two skills. What kind of monetary equivalent should be placed on these feats, or should I even bother? Furthermore, should certain feats be learnable by trainers, say? Like, for example, perhaps a martial character trains with a spellcaster over a month of ingame time in order to master some cantrips or orisions? Or even think of it more in a Dragonball Z way, where certain moves (read: combat options granted by feats) are only unlockable after training?

    Your thoughts?
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    Default Re: )3.5( Feats As Rewards

    I've done this, generally via "training" from NPCs or from stone tablets, sort of like the moves you learn in Tales of Destiny.

    Monetary value of feats isn't too hard; there are magic items that grant access to them.

    A feat with no prereqs is fairly cheap.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irreverent Fool View Post
    Yes, but in D&D, no matter how effective your shield might be, you're still better off charging into combat with a two-handed, pouncing, leaping, power attack from horseback using shock trooper to drop your AC into the basement while retaining your full chance to hit.

    Or you know, just asking the wizard to deal with it.

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    Default Re: )3.5( Feats As Rewards

    Giving out "bad" feats can work as a form of reward, but only if your players do not know about the Chaos Shuffle trick.
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    Default Re: )3.5( Feats As Rewards

    Quote Originally Posted by jokey665 View Post
    Giving out "bad" feats can work as a form of reward, but only if your players do not know about the Chaos Shuffle trick.
    Thankfully, I'm the only one who uses the dark powers of the Internets to obtain D&D knowledge in my group of friends.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    I've always considered breakfast to be evil. Looking at me with it's bacon-smile, and it's sunny-side-up eyes. I know it's plotting something.
    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    ..thank you, Deth Muncher. My life is richer for being aware of this. And weirder. ("You destroyed my friends! I will have my vengeance! Face the fury of my pelvic thrusts!" "Oh yeah? LAZOR!")
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    Default Re: )3.5( Feats As Rewards

    If you would can you list your system? I want to do this but my list is rather limited at the moment.
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    Default Re: )3.5( Feats As Rewards

    Quote Originally Posted by Demons_eye View Post
    If you would can you list your system? I want to do this but my list is rather limited at the moment.
    Sorry, mildly sleep deprived brain fails to compute. Do you mean my list of feats? Or how I plan on implementing them?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    ..thank you, Deth Muncher. My life is richer for being aware of this. And weirder. ("You destroyed my friends! I will have my vengeance! Face the fury of my pelvic thrusts!" "Oh yeah? LAZOR!")
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
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    Default Re: )3.5( Feats As Rewards

    What feats you have chosen and how to get them.

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    Default Re: )3.5( Feats As Rewards

    I assume the latter; if not, then I'm interested also.

    And I think it's a grand idea. Especially if you have some sense of what your players would like to do in terms of pre-reqs, so you can help them out with those. There are definitely some classes that are hurt more than is warranted by large numbers of useless pre-req feats (Champion of Corellon Larethian, Master of the Nine, and Dervish come to mind immediately), which you could make much easier on your players if you wanted.

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    Default Re: )3.5( Feats As Rewards

    Ah. Well, currently, I'm thinking a good deal of these should be what I'll refer to as RPR's - that is, Roleplay Rewards and GPRs - that is, Gameplay Rewards.. For example, say Bob the Rogue is a fan Tumbling and Jumping, be it in combat or with obstacles, perhaps he should get Acrobatic fo' free as a GPR - he's using his skills as opposed to just going "Duhhh, how I get over this gap?"

    By the same token, say Bob the Bard has a penchant for interrogating people around town. Because he roleplays it so well, maybe he'll get Investigator as an RPR.

    Y'know, stuff like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    ..thank you, Deth Muncher. My life is richer for being aware of this. And weirder. ("You destroyed my friends! I will have my vengeance! Face the fury of my pelvic thrusts!" "Oh yeah? LAZOR!")
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    You all are a terrible species. I'm going back to my fortress of misanthropy now.

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    Default Re: )3.5( Feats As Rewards

    If you want to avoid cheese, probably the best way is just to surprise your players with the feats.

    That is, rather than say "OK, here's a list of things you can do to get feats." Player, "Ok, my guy is going to climb the tallest tree he can find jump out of it, land on his head, climb back up, repeat and repeat until he gets Slow Fall"


    It might be better to come up with a big list of feats that could be appropriate to give out, and then surprise the players. You could do it for a specific player at the end of a session in which he does something cool, or you could wait until the end of a campaign, or you could have a wizard offer them the choice between a little gadget that gives them one of two feats...
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    Default Re: )3.5( Feats As Rewards

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonmuncher View Post
    If you want to avoid cheese, probably the best way is just to surprise your players with the feats.

    That is, rather than say "OK, here's a list of things you can do to get feats." Player, "Ok, my guy is going to climb the tallest tree he can find jump out of it, land on his head, climb back up, repeat and repeat until he gets Slow Fall"


    It might be better to come up with a big list of feats that could be appropriate to give out, and then surprise the players. You could do it for a specific player at the end of a session in which he does something cool, or you could wait until the end of a campaign, or you could have a wizard offer them the choice between a little gadget that gives them one of two feats...
    Oh, I sure as hell wouldn't TELL my players they have the option to get cool things by doing retarded things. That would be silly. :P

    But yeah, I think an at-the-end-of-session or when-randomly-appropriate thing would be best for delivering the feats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    ..thank you, Deth Muncher. My life is richer for being aware of this. And weirder. ("You destroyed my friends! I will have my vengeance! Face the fury of my pelvic thrusts!" "Oh yeah? LAZOR!")
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    You all are a terrible species. I'm going back to my fortress of misanthropy now.

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    Default Re: )3.5( Feats As Rewards

    Quote Originally Posted by Deth Muncher View Post
    Oh, I sure as hell wouldn't TELL my players they have the option to get cool things by doing retarded things. That would be silly. :P

    But yeah, I think an at-the-end-of-session or when-randomly-appropriate thing would be best for delivering the feats.
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    Default Re: )3.5( Feats As Rewards

    My group has played at various times trying different ideas like this.

    Feats that could be learned; Acrobatics, Agile, Animal Affinity, Deceitful, Deft Hands, Diligent, Investigator, Magical Aptitude, Negotiator, Nimble Fingers, Persuasive, Self-Sufficient, Stealthy, or Proficiency in a non-exotic specific weapon.

    However there were a couple rules:
    1) Some classes couldn't get them, usually this was to avoid specific classes boosting a already high class skill. Like Rogues couldn't take Nimble Fingers, or Bards couldn't take Persuasive.
    2) Couldn't be needed for another feat, or prestige class requirements.
    3) They took time to learn. ex- Spending the last 4 months wintering in "city name" and working with the city guard investigating crimes you learned the Investigator feat. No XP or money was given during these months but the PC did get something out of it.

    Alternatively we would sometimes play that these feats were 1/2 feats and you could get 2 of them for the cost of 1 feat.
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    Default Re: )3.5( Feats As Rewards

    Quote Originally Posted by Deth Muncher View Post
    Ah. Well, currently, I'm thinking a good deal of these should be what I'll refer to as RPR's - that is, Roleplay Rewards and GPRs - that is, Gameplay Rewards.. For example, say Bob the Rogue is a fan Tumbling and Jumping, be it in combat or with obstacles, perhaps he should get Acrobatic fo' free as a GPR - he's using his skills as opposed to just going "Duhhh, how I get over this gap?"
    Maybe this won't be a problem, but something to keep in mind. Make sure you aren't punishing the poor RP-ers, quieter players, or those who just aren't as up on the rules by not giving them feats. Even if you think you are being fair (giving rewards for good play), it can very easily look like favoritism. ("Player X hogs the spotlight, and Deth rewarded them by giving them extra abilities.")

    This is especially an issue if you have players who aren't really experienced. Sure, you know that Acrobatic isn't all that, but to someone who is just starting, a +2 to a couple of skills (for free!) looks like a lot.
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    Default Re: )3.5( Feats As Rewards

    I would grant the less-interesting feats which people might not take otherwise. Great Fortitude for surviving a mountain expedition without food for a week. Diehard after training with an ogre monk whose main regimen is headbashing boulders.

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    Default Re: )3.5( Feats As Rewards

    Quote Originally Posted by nargbop View Post
    I would grant the less-interesting feats which people might not take otherwise. Great Fortitude for surviving a mountain expedition without food for a week. Diehard after training with an ogre monk whose main regimen is headbashing boulders.
    I'd think the second would just result in a permanent reduction in wisdom. Good thing I don't DM.

    But yeah, weak feats seem ok as rewards. Just be careful that it doesn't overly advantage any specific player. And some feats even if they seem like they should be rewardy really shouldn't be (I don't care how much sense it makes that a wizard should be able to learn a new metamagic feat from an older wizard. Giving them free metamagic feats would be really bad news).

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    Default Re: )3.5( Feats As Rewards

    When I reduced the value of feats (by giving all players Vow of Poverty benifts but bonus feats from any list, with out the poverty requirement, but there were no magic items, or decent casters (the post powerful mage in the world was an adept5/binder3) )
    anyway i made feats cheap,
    and Skill Focus became a feat players took.
    At low level, in a game where finding a town, heck finind another human was a rare thing, skill focus survival is awesome.
    Skill focus Craft Improvised shelter, and skill focus craft clothing, and skill focus craft fletch were also feats the players were stongly considering.
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