Delayed Blast Fireball Confusion (v3.5/Pathfinder)

[Ravingdork]

Delayed Blast Fireball

School evocation [fire]; Level sorcerer/wizard 7

Duration 5 rounds or less; see text

This spell functions like fireball, except that it is more powerful and can detonate up to 5 rounds after the spell is cast. The burst of flame deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 20d6). The glowing bead created by delayed blast fireball can detonate immediately if you desire, or you can choose to delay the burst for as many as 5 rounds. You select the amount of delay upon completing the spell, and that time cannot change once it has been set unless someone touches the bead. If you choose a delay, the glowing bead sits at its destination until it detonates. A creature can pick up and hurl the bead as a thrown weapon (range increment 10 feet). If a creature handles and moves the bead within 1 round of its detonation, there is a 25% chance that the bead detonates while being handled.

My confusion is stemming from the bolded text within the body of the spell's text.

What is the significance of treating it as a thrown weapon with a range increment (and an attack roll against a single target?) if it simply explodes as an area effect that forces a save? How is this rule intended to be handled? If I hit somebody with it directly, do they not get a save like Meteor Swarm or something?

Why not just have the text say the bead can be thrown and detonated within 50 feet? The only reason an attack roll would be required at all is to get the bead through a narrow opening. That way there is no confusion whatsoever.

Also, what happens if the bead leaves the spell's range? For example, a wizard casts the spell in a populated bar with a 5 round duration, then teleports 100 miles away. Does the bead still explode even though it is now outside spell range? Or is the effect negates just as a fireball launched outside of spell range would be?

[Quirp]

I think the range is important, because you use it like a thrown weapon (PHB) and aim at a specific square or something like that and if you don`t hit you might hi your allies if they are close to the point of origin

[The Random NPC]

The spell has a range of Long when first cast, but after that it can be picked up and thrown away, potentially putting out of range of anyone.

[ZeroNumerous]

... Theoretically, one could use a Delayed Blast Fireball bead to sneak attack someone if you qualify for sneak attack.

[Tiktakkat]

I think the range is important, because you use it like a thrown weapon (PHB) and aim at a specific square or something like that and if you don`t hit you might hi your allies if they are close to the point of origin

That is how I would read it.
By treating it as a thrown weapon, it has to follow specific rules. These include the range, the need to hit a target, the AC you need to hit, the penalties to hit based on range, and how far it scatters if you miss.

[Ravingdork]

That is how I would read it.
By treating it as a thrown weapon, it has to follow specific rules. These include the range, the need to hit a target, the AC you need to hit, the penalties to hit based on range, and how far it scatters if you miss.

But how do you run that? It's not like an arrow that hits and deals damage or a splash weapon that might land elsewhere. It reaches the areas where you throw it and it explodes forcing a save as per normal.

The rules don't seem to specify what to do.

[Lvl45DM!]

It makes it a grenade. I can pick it up and throw it into the enemies trench, if i want to. Without specifying the rules for that it would be impossible

[Tyndmyr]

So...where does it go if you miss the attack? Normally this isn't very important for ammunition, but for an AOE, it is.

[Ethdred]

I'm not sure if this is canon anymore, but the way we've always done it is a grenade-like missile that misses goes 1d6*5 ft, using a d8 to determine direction. So it could end up behind you!

The other significance of it being a thrown weapon is that you can only throw it a maximum of 5 range increments - 50' in this case - so it might not end up far away for everyone to be safe.

Love this spell, though it was more fun in previous editions when it produced what appeared to be a red jewel. One party was held up at a checkpoint by a very low challenge amount of bog standard humanoids demanding a toll to pass. They couldn't be bothered to fight them, so the party mage said 'We don't have enough cash, but will you take this ruby instead?'

[Admiral Squish]

Simple: Cast the spell, and a bead appears at the target (Anywhere within Long range). Some guy who's smart might think 'OH $HIT!', and pick it up and chuck it as far as freakin' possible before it blows if you set the timer for too long.

[Xenogears]

when it produced what appeared to be a red jewel. One party was held up at a checkpoint by a very low challenge amount of bog standard humanoids demanding a toll to pass. They couldn't be bothered to fight them, so the party mage said 'We don't have enough cash, but will you take this ruby instead?'

Now it produces a red bead. I'm not sure how it changed much. You should still be able to convince a troll its valuable.

[Kislath]

There used to be some very specific rules about where things might wind up when thrown, but it's been a very long time since I read them. Basically you roll for direction ( outward from intended target ) and roll for distance, ( outward from target ) and use the results to decide where the thrown object lands. It also applied to catapults as I recall.

Ah, yes, the old style big red ruby of doom...

I used to hurt so many player characters with that one.