haversack damage?

[taltamir]

the handy haversack does not specify DR or HP, it does not specify that sharp items pierce it and make all items in it disappear (as the bags of holding specify), it does specify that the side pouches are "like" bags of holding, only they grant you quickdraw

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems...handyHaversack

So what happens to the haversack if you are hit by an AoO like fireball? what happens if someone stabs it with a sword or a spear?

[NEO|Phyte]

the handy haversack does not specify DR or HP, it does not specify that sharp items pierce it and make all items in it disappear (as the bags of holding specify), it does specify that the side pouches are "like" bags of holding, only they grant you quickdraw

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems...handyHaversack

So what happens to the haversack if you are hit by an AoO like fireball? what happens if someone stabs it with a sword or a spear?

The fireball does nothing unless you roll a 1 on your save (scroll down to "Items Surviving after a Saving Throw"), the stabby would be a sunder, with the DM having to decide hardness/HP.

[Sinfire Titan]

The fireball does nothing unless you roll a 1 on your save (scroll down to "Items Surviving after a Saving Throw"), the stabby would be a sunder, with the DM having to decide hardness/HP.

Considering some sources list glass or ice having a hardness of 1 or 2, a magically-enchanted cloth sack would probably have a hardness of 3 and HP based on the CL and Spell Levels.

[taltamir]

so... it should not take damage unless I roll 1 or someone explicitly tries to sunder it? and an attack with a piercing weapon will NOT auto destroy, but instead deal damage?

[Sinfire Titan]

so... it should not take damage unless I roll 1 or someone explicitly tries to sunder it? and an attack with a piercing weapon will NOT auto destroy, but instead deal damage?

Probably not, since magic items tend to be much stronger than their mundane counterparts.

[lsfreak]

Items on your person are NEVER damaged unless you roll a 1 on a save versus an attack (as say, fireball; there is a specific chart in the DMG as to which items are affected, shield and armor being the first ones affected), or unless they are specifically targeted by a sunder.

[ericgrau]

And normally you can't sunder with a ranged weapon. Though you could argue that a hole in the haversack is enough to ruin it, unlike a normal backpack.

The magic items that do have hardness and HP listed have only a few of each, i.e. in the single digits. Any major attack would probably 1 shot the haversack, while something doing only a couple damage or so might not affect it at all. It's only when it's hit by a moderate attack that you need to ask the DM to ad hoc a decision.

Note that fire and electricity do half damage to objects, cold does 1/4. Hardness is subtracted from all energy damage.

[Sinfire Titan]

And normally you can't sunder with a ranged weapon. Though you could argue that a hole in the haversack is enough to ruin it, unlike a normal backpack.

The magic items that do have hardness and HP listed have only a few of each, i.e. in the single digits. Any major attack would probably 1 shot the haversack, while something doing only a couple damage or so might not affect it at all. It's only when it's hit by a moderate attack that you need to ask the DM to ad hoc a decision.

Note that fire and electricity do half damage to objects, cold does 1/4. Hardness is subtracted from all energy damage.

Acid ignores hardness and deals full damage to objects, as does Sonic.

[ericgrau]

That's actually just bad wording. Rules compendium clarifies that "deals damage normally" means hardness is still subtracted, as with normal weapon blows.

[Starbuck_II]

That's actually just bad wording. Rules compendium clarifies that "deals damage normally" means hardness is still subtracted, as with normal weapon blows.

Yeah, only Psionic sonic damage ignores hardness.

[graeylin]

I always coat everything i own with ungent of timelessness, just for the additional save bonus to toss to the DM. cloaks, boots, haversack, leather armor.. if it was once alive, it gets coated. better than mink oil!

like having the sun to your back in a shootout, every little bit helps when bargaining with the DM.

[Bibliomancer]

Perhaps HP and hardness aren't listed because they are irrelevant. Being a conduit to an extradimesional space, perhaps the HHH is in fact indestructible, and poking holes in it does nothing.

The above analysis of hardness and HP seems reasonable, though.

[taltamir]

Perhaps HP and hardness aren't listed because they are irrelevant. Being a conduit to an extradimesional space, perhaps the HHH is in fact indestructible, and poking holes in it does nothing.

The above analysis of hardness and HP seems reasonable, though.

heh, I sure wish :p
lets see what my DM says.

[Curmudgeon]

If you roll a 1 on your saving throw, use the standard material properties:

Handy Haversack

A backpack of this sort appears to be well made, well used, and quite ordinary. It is constructed of finely tanned leather, and the straps have brass hardware and buckles.

Leather or hide: hardness 2; 5 HP/inch of thickness

[taltamir]

mmm... how thick would it be? @ 5HP/inch, it could easily have only 1 HP.

[Sinfire Titan]

mmm... how thick would it be? @ 5HP/inch, it could easily have only 1 HP.

+Enhancements. This is why I said a Hardness of 3, and HP based on CL and Spell levels involved. Probably CL+level of the highest spell. This gives it a small buffer zone, but it will be easy to ruin in a full attack.

[taltamir]

well, secret chest is SL5, and the item has a listed CL9.
so thats 1+9+5 = 15HP, 3 hardness

[Splendor]

Leather has a hardness of 2, and 5 Hp per inch. (PH 166)
So a backpack most likely has a hardness of 2 and maybe 2 hp.

Just because something is magical doesn't make it tougher. Only magical weapons and armor (or items specifically stated in their descriptions) are tougher then standard items.

However, you could state that the construction requirements for your HHH sack is of Dwarvencraft Quality (RoS pg 159), this would help to explain the material component cost of crafting the item, and would add +2 hardness and I would say 4 extra hp (on shields adds 2 hardness and 10 hp).

Furthermore perhaps your HHH sack is made out of something stronger then normal leather I seem to remember in AD&D Osquip hide was stronger then normal leather, but I don't remember any such leathers in 3ed.

Last but not least there is a often overlooked 6th level spell called Hardening (MoF 99) which is permanent and adds 1/2 the casters level to a items hardness. So even a 11th level caster would add 5 to the bags hardness. The cost of this addition would be 660gp or a scroll for 1650gp.

[Curmudgeon]

However, you could state that the construction requirements for your HHH sack is of Dwarvencraft Quality (RoS pg 159)

The Dwarves would throw a fit at the idea of wasting their skills on leather.

Dwarvencraft items are always of masterwork quality. Only items crafted primarily of metal or stone are available in dwarvencraft quality.

[Splendor]

Only items crafted primarily of metal or stone are available in dwarvencraft quality.

Oops shouldn't just look at my equipment list all the time....


How about Leather scale? Arms & Equipment guide.

Leather scale armor is just like the scale mail described in PHB, except that the scales are made of cured leather instead of metal.- Arms & Equipment pg 16

Leather scale armor grants +3 armor, +6 max dex, -2 ACP, weighs 20lbs
Which is similar in toughness to Hide armor & studded leather and both armor has hardness 2 and 15 hp.
Leather armor has 2 hardness and 10 hp.

So would add +50% hp to a normal leather bag. So maybe the bag now has hardness 2 and 3 hp? Not a big increase but its something.

[ericgrau]

Yeah, still basically a single strong hit ruins it. It's only with the weaker hits that you have to ask the DM if the bag is magically strengthened or not.

[Splendor]

If your playing somewhere like in the realms you can get that Hardening spell cast on it by a 12th level wizards (Red Wizards Enclaves are usually led by a 12th level caster). That would give a Leather scale HHH Sack a Hardness of 9 and 3 hp. That's a pretty tough bag, it's almost as hard as metal and still as flexible as leather.