Druid-zilla?

[Dusk Eclipse]

On the forum when talking about the tier 1 classes you always find mention of CoD-zilla; the C part of the CoD-zilla has always been clear to me, a cleric which using self-buffs and maybe DMM transforms into a melee monster that outfights the fighter.

Now the D part of CoD-zilla is pretty unclear to me, is it the same principlie using self buffs to become a melee monster or does Druid-zilla uses different tactics than a cleric-zilla.?

So can anybody answer my question please?

Also my first thought when I heard Druid-zilla for the first time was a druid wildshaped into a Battle titan a literal druidzila

[Gnaeus]

Same principle. Cast bite of the wereX in combat and maybe some long term buffs cast out of combat (Venomfire, GMF, Barkskin, Heart of the X, Primal X). Turn into large animal. Eat faces. Have pet which eats faces with you.

[d13]

And still be a Full Caster while you eat faces.

[Tavar]

First off, your animal companion is roughly equivalent to a fighter. Then, add in wildshape, and you can become as good if not better than a fighter yourself. Then add in spells, and you can either buff you and your animal companion up, or summon even more things to beat down others.

[UglyPanda]

What everyone else said. Also remember that your animal companion shares buffs with you. Properly buffed*, your animal companion alone outfights the fighter. The Druid just relaxes or summons more face-eating animals.



*Sometimes not even necessary.

[Bibliomancer]

Alternatively, have your animal companion charge in, summon something, cast a spell, turn into something...etc. etc.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Really? hmm I was kinda hoping it was something at least differen
Though you can make a literal druidzilla while wildshaping into a Battletitan.

also is there a way for druids to ger DMM?

[Gnaeus]

also is there a way for druids to ger DMM?

They take a 1 level cleric or PRC dip. It isn't always worth it for a druid. Many of the best druid buffs last a long time anyway, and dipping outside druid hurts your spellcasting, your pet and your wildshape.

[Volkov]

The answer is simple, you can turn into godzilla and stomp the BBEG flat under your 55,000 ton weight. The Clericzilla cannot.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Technically, a Druid 20 with the right spell can take and use DMM unhindered. Get some Unguent of Timelessness and get dozens or even hundreds of turn attempts ready ahead of time.

[Bibliomancer]

The answer is simple, you can turn into godzilla and stomp the BBEG flat under your 55,000 ton weight. The Clericzilla cannot.

Are you allowed to turn into a blue whale in mid-air? I thought you had to turn into something specific to the environment (just like summoning spells can't summon something that will die imminently).

[Dusk Eclipse]

They take a 1 level cleric or PRC dip. It isn't always worth it for a druid. Many of the best druid buffs last a long time anyway, and dipping outside druid hurts your spellcasting, your pet and your wildshape.

How about a dip into prestige paladin? IIRC it gives turn undead at first level and advances spellcasting.

[Pluto]

How about a dip into prestige paladin? IIRC it gives turn undead at first level and advances spellcasting.

Alignment impossiblity aside, where would you get Protection from Evil?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Alignment impossiblity aside, where would you get Protection from Evil?

Good point, I just checked the SRD, althoug some readings of extra spell might let you get Protection from evil right?

[Volkov]

Are you allowed to turn into a blue whale in mid-air? I thought you had to turn into something specific to the environment (just like summoning spells can't summon something that will die imminently).

Godzilla can shoot radioactive particle beams, a whale can't. So there's no point in becoming a whale, especially because in one movie, godzilla flew with his atomic ray.

[Pluto]

Good point, I just checked the SRD, althoug some readings of extra spell might let you get Protection from evil right?

True, but on second glance, Turn Undead is a prerequisite for Prestige Pally, so that's out.

The normal paths to DMM Druids go through Sacred Exorcist (which also has a spell list problem, but there are dozens of ways around that) or Cleric dips (which are actually really good, what with their 2-3 Domain Abilities/Feats, turning and access to Cleric wands).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Prestige Paladin has Turn Undead as a prerequisite. Druid is powerful enough without Divine Metamagic anyway, Cleric-zillas need to use it because Divine Power and Divine Favor only last a round/level, whereas Wild Shape lasts all day by itself.

[Gnaeus]

The normal paths to DMM Druids go through Sacred Exorcist (which also has a spell list problem, but there are dozens of ways around that) or Cleric dips (which are actually really good, what with their 2-3 Domain Abilities/Feats, turning and access to Cleric wands).

They are OK. Remember that even sacred exorcist is a hit to your pet and wildshape.

Personally, if I wanted to be a Druid-Zilla and felt like retarding my casting, pet and WS for permanent buffs and free feats, I'd dip monk 1 before cleric 1, for wisdom to AC and free Improved Grapple, both of which help melee druids a lot. But Cleric 1/Druid 19, Monk 1/Druid 19, and Druid 20 are all playable in any tier 1 party.

[faceroll]

First off, your animal companion is roughly equivalent to a fighter. Then, add in wildshape, and you can become as good if not better than a fighter yourself. Then add in spells, and you can either buff you and your animal companion up, or summon even more things to beat down others.

I always found this explanation of Dzilla a little amusing, since fighter gets so much criticism for being a fighter, but Dzilla gets high fives for being a fighterx3.

What makes Dzilla so baller isn't that he can be a very competent melee fighter (anyone can do that), it's his full complement of spells that are ridiculously good. If you pick through enough books, a druid has got virtually the same spells a wizard does, but he doesn't have to rely on his teammates to finish off an incapacitated enemy.

He also is one of the most SAD classes after level 5, thanks to wildshape & that one really silly feat that lets him cast spells while wildshaped. This means he gets a pretty solid number of skill points, thanks to int being a tertiary stat, combined with an initiate feat and an already decent selection of skills, he can make a halfway decent skill monkey.

[Gnaeus]

Well, fighters are good in situations that call for fighters. The druid is a better fighter than a fighter on the days when a fighter is needed, and a scout, or healer, or diviner, or item crafter, or flying nuker, or some other crazy thing on days when they aren't.

[faceroll]

The druid is a better fighter than a fighter on the days when a fighter is needed

I disagree. An ubercharger does tons more damage, and with reach, a spiked chain and great cleave, kills everything in a 20' radius. A druid can't do that when mimicking a fighter.

I would describe a druid as a competent melee combatant with minimal resource expenditure- a handful of long term buffs, one use of wildshape, maybe a feat. It's all the other crap a druid gets that makes him such a badass. His battlefield control spells, debuffs, and buffs are on par with the wizard's. He has access to virtually the same movement modes as a wizard, too. But when it comes to pure melee damage output & lockdown, a druid has to waste a ton of spells and feats to do it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A Druid may not be able to wipe out an entire encounter in a single swing, but he can summon a few lions, Animal Growth his lions/companion/self, and single-handedly defeat an equal number of opponents via melee. Plus the times when the Fighter is needed are far fewer than the times when he's riding on the other characters' coattails.

[faceroll]

A Druid may not be able to wipe out an entire encounter in a single swing, but he can summon a few lions, Animal Growth his lions/companion/self, and single-handedly defeat an equal number of opponents via melee.

So? He's still doing the same crap a fighter does. When someone asks "what's Dzilla?", invariably, there are a half dozen people that cream their pants over how druids can waste daily resources to be a halfway decent fighter.

Plus the times when the Fighter is needed are far fewer than the times when he's riding on the other characters' coattails.

I'd put it this way: a party needs a mediocre fighter, someone who can do damage, to play clean up. A druid can do that by default. Then he comes with full casting from a spell list that's almost as awesome as the wizard's. A druid gets the buffs of a cleric and the everything else of a wizard. It's nuts.

Turning the druid into a good fighter is a waste of time and resources, though, because the resources are far better spent on things that aren't easily replicated by "I attack; I attack; I attack."

[Gnaeus]

I disagree. An ubercharger does tons more damage, and with reach, a spiked chain and great cleave, kills everything in a 20' radius. A druid can't do that when mimicking a fighter.

Yes, but chargers have their own limitations that the druid doesn't, The ubercharger is one specific example of fighter found only in highly optimized games, and the druid while mimicking a fighter can do things that the ubercharger cannot do. Even the ubercharger cannot engage and lock down 2 opponents 50 feet away from each other, like the druid and his T-Rex pet can. Uberchargers are vastly more gear dependent, etc....

Yes, an ubercharger is better in his niche. So what. The druid while in full fighter mode with the lions share of his resources dedicated to combat buffs is still more versatile than a charger, and is better than more typical fighters through his entire level range after wildshape.

[sofawall]

Are you allowed to turn into a blue whale in mid-air? I thought you had to turn into something specific to the environment (just like summoning spells can't summon something that will die imminently).

The only things that have to appear in their proper environment are Conjuration (Summoning) (and maybe Calling) spells. Animal Companions have to be appropriate to the campaign, but Alter Self (and by extension, Wildshape) has no such restriction.

I disagree. An ubercharger does tons more damage, and with reach, a spiked chain and great cleave, kills everything in a 20' radius.

On an ubercharger? Spiked Chain means no multiplier from Lance, and Great Cleave stops you from charging when you use it, kinda ruining your schtick.

Maybe you mean a simple charger, not an ubercharger.

[faceroll]

On an ubercharger? Spiked Chain means no multiplier from Lance, and Great Cleave stops you from charging when you use it, kinda ruining your schtick.

You can't ride a mount when in a frenzy, anyway. And charging stops you from charging. There's no problem with turning into a whirlwind of death at the end of it.

Yes, but chargers have their own limitations that the druid doesn't, The ubercharger is one specific example of fighter found only in highly optimized games, and the druid while mimicking a fighter can do things that the ubercharger cannot do. Even the ubercharger cannot engage and lock down 2 opponents 50 feet away from each other, like the druid and his T-Rex pet can. Uberchargers are vastly more gear dependent, etc....

Yes, an ubercharger is better in his niche. So what. The druid while in full fighter mode with the lions share of his resources dedicated to combat buffs is still more versatile than a charger, and is better than more typical fighters through his entire level range after wildshape.

Could you please go back and re-read my posts? This is exactly what I'm saying. Look, even the OP was confused by everyone's druidgasm, when all it amounted to was this:

Alternatively, have your animal companion charge in, summon something, cast a spell, turn into something...etc. etc.

On an ubercharger? Spiked Chain means no multiplier from Lance, and Great Cleave stops you from charging when you use it, kinda ruining your schtick.

You can't ride a mount when in a frenzy, anyway. And charging stops you from charging. There's no problem with turning into a whirlwind of death at the end of it.

[sofawall]

You can't ride a mount when in a frenzy, anyway. And charging stops you from charging. There's no problem with turning into a whirlwind of death at the end of it.

A) I got the first time, B) You can ride a mount in battle, especially with a lance, and C) Another multiplier is probably going to add up to more than +7 damage.

[faceroll]

A) I got the first time, B) You can ride a mount in battle, especially with a lance, and C) Another multiplier is probably going to add up to more than +7 damage.

Are you familiar with the frenzied berserker?

[sofawall]

Are you familiar with the frenzied berserker?

I am, and there are ways to avoid going into a frenzy. I suggest using them.

[Tinydwarfman]

So? He's still doing the same crap a fighter does. When someone asks "what's Dzilla?", invariably, there are a half dozen people that cream their pants over how druids can waste daily resources to be a halfway decent fighter.



I'd put it this way: a party needs a mediocre fighter, someone who can do damage, to play clean up. A druid can do that by default. Then he comes with full casting from a spell list that's almost as awesome as the wizard's. A druid gets the buffs of a cleric and the everything else of a wizard. It's nuts.

Turning the druid into a good fighter is a waste of time and resources, though, because the resources are far better spent on things that aren't easily replicated by "I attack; I attack; I attack."

Halfway decent fighter? A riding dog is about equivalent to a fighter, and that's not even counting the druid's summons+buffs+coolness.