[3.5] Defensive Wizard Builds

[CTLC]

Hiyo, i decided to make a defensive build, using magic, but i see that dnd 3.5 is not overly loving of defensiveness. Not that there arent somethings totally worth using.
The build is going to go into Iot7FV asap. But i cannot decide whether to take factotum, abjurer, or conjurer first.
My thinking is as follows:
Abjurer fits the best, thematically, and everything else-ly. But I do not really love teh abjuration school [i know, defensive mage who doesnt like abjuration...]
Conjurer has abrupt jaunt and is a wizard. nuff said.
Factotum looks like the best thing ever for someone like me, i love being random and hopping around abilities. But i am not sure as to its playability, specifically its ability to get some wall and other spells i want. However, skill points may be the best thing in the universe. And all the other abilities are really cool too.

So, comments on defensive builds you like, or on factota?

Edit: A factotum is really helpful in a group of only three though!

[Overshee]

Hiyo, i decided to make a defensive build, using magic, but i see that dnd 3.5 is not overly loving of defensiveness. Not that there arent somethings totally worth using.
The build is going to go into Iot7FV asap. But i cannot decide whether to take factotum, abjurer, or conjurer first.
My thinking is as follows:
Abjurer fits the best, thematically, and everything else-ly. But I do not really love teh abjuration school [i know, defensive mage who doesnt like abjuration...]
Conjurer has abrupt jaunt and is a wizard. nuff said.
Factotum looks like the best thing ever for someone like me, i love being random and hopping around abilities. But i am not sure as to its playability, specifically its ability to get some wall and other spells i want. However, skill points may be the best thing in the universe. And all the other abilities are really cool too.

So, comments on defensive builds you like, or on factota?

I don't think Factotum technically count as spellcasters. Their "spells" are spell like abilities. I don't know the prerequisites for Iot7V, but I'm not sure factotum will qualify.

[CTLC]

I don't think Factotum technically count as spellcasters. Their "spells" are spell like abilities. I don't know the prerequisites for Iot7V, but I'm not sure factotum will qualify.

... ruh roh.
-goes to check!

[Myou]

I don't think Factotum technically count as spellcasters. Their "spells" are spell like abilities. I don't know the prerequisites for Iot7V, but I'm not sure factotum will qualify.

Yeah, uh, Factotums can't enter casting PrCs like that, not unless your DM is insane and allows them to imitate 15th level casting. But even then it would be too late for IotSV.

[CTLC]

so, factotum is out. wah-wah-wahhhhh

Abjurer or conjurer then?
Are there any abjurer variants worth a damn?
Conjurer has abrupt jaunt, and conjuration spells are usually good.

sooo, im probably playing a human, and probably a wizard, unless you all have good Iot7FV builds?

[Optimator]

Going into IotSFV? Abjurer into master specialist into IotSFV is a no-brainer.

Then again, Abrupt Jaunt is the heat.

[Pluto]

Are there any abjurer variants worth a damn?

Not a variant, but the Master Specialist prestige class in Complete Mage gives Abjurers 2 out of Iot7V's 3 prerequisite feats in its first 2 levels.

In a defensive- and support-oriented Wizard, I'd probably use a build that looks like this:

Abjurer 3/Master Specialist 2/War Weaver 5/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 10/Archmage 3

War Weaver is in Heroes of Battle. It is a very effective group buffer.
Actually, that's an understatement.
It is perhaps the single best support class in 3.5.

[Archmage is just there because it's always a good add-on and Iot7V's already have 2 of its 3 prerequisite feats.]

[Myou]

Not a variant, but the Master Specialist prestige class in Complete Mage gives Abjurers 2 out of Iot7V's 3 prerequisite feats in its first 2 levels.

In a defensive- and support-oriented Wizard, I'd probably use a build that looks like this:

Abjurer 3/Master Specialist 2/War Weaver 5/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 10/Archmage 3

War Weaver is in Heroes of Battle. It is a very effective group buffer.
Actually, that's an understatement.
It is perhaps the single best support class in 3.5.

[Archmage is just there because it's always a good add-on and Iot7V's already have 2 of its 3 prerequisite feats.]

I swear IotSV is a 7 level class, I'd look it up but I'm AFB.

[Bibliomancer]

I swear IotSV is a 7 level class, I'd look it up but I'm AFB.

It is a 7 level class. You can complete it by 16th level, so the above build could be modified to Abjurer 3/Master Specialist 2/War Weaver 5/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/Archmage 3. I think that the OP of that line just added 10 in on auto-pilot, because if you change it to 7 the CL prerequisites work out and you get a 20 level build.

[Overshee]

Not a variant, but the Master Specialist prestige class in Complete Mage gives Abjurers 2 out of Iot7V's 3 prerequisite feats in its first 2 levels.

In a defensive- and support-oriented Wizard, I'd probably use a build that looks like this:

Abjurer 3/Master Specialist 2/War Weaver 5/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 10/Archmage 3

War Weaver is in Heroes of Battle. It is a very effective group buffer.
Actually, that's an understatement.
It is perhaps the single best support class in 3.5.

[Archmage is just there because it's always a good add-on and Iot7V's already have 2 of its 3 prerequisite feats.]

Hey, I'd be really interested in more information on this build. I don't really know much about the prestige classes besides basic roles and powers, any chance someone could expand upon this progression further?

[CTLC]

hum, heroes of battle?
dont have it, ill see if any of my group does, but id rather enter Iot7FV as soon as i can.

[Tyndmyr]

Im currently playing a generalist wizard(with domain wiz variant, storm domain) 5, Incantatrix 4, IoT7V 2, and let me tell you, it's incredibly powerful defensively. Has some offensive muscle too. At level 10, I sank a fleet in under a minute without taking damage.

The build works best with another spellcaster around, that way you can abuse both the cooperative spellcasting and the ability to apply metamagics to buffs. Since both work 3+int mod times per day(12 each for me), this gives you an utterly ridiculous number of possible buffs. In my particular case, I have a mystic theurge buddy who gladly tosses a couple fun buffs on me like lesser vigor in return for me persisting his buffs via cooperative spellcasting.

[KellKheraptis]

hum, heroes of battle?
dont have it, ill see if any of my group does, but id rather enter Iot7FV as soon as i can.

No worries, considering you can enter War Weaver by 4th level if you do it right.

[Pluto]

I think that the OP of that line just added 10 in on auto-pilot, because if you change it to 7 the CL prerequisites work out and you get a 20 level build.

Right you are.

Hey, I'd be really interested in more information on this build. I don't really know much about the prestige classes besides basic roles and powers, any chance someone could expand upon this progression further?

Sure.

The only really interesting things that are going on here are the War Weaver and Initiate of the Sevenfold Veils Prestige classes.

War Weaver is a 5-level class with 4/5 levels advancing casting.
Even with the lost caster level, it's outrageously powerful.
Its schtick is buffing the whole party quickly and efficiently.
It basically has two abilities:
--One allows the War Weaver to affect all party members with a single casting of single-target buff spells.
(So one casting of Fly can have the whole party airborne)
--The other allows the War Weaver to store buff spells in an "Eldritch Tapestry." These spells can be activated later as a move action. Up to four spells can be stored this way and all can be released at once with a Move action.
(This means a War Weaver can start a conflict with about 3 times the defensive spell output of another caster--before considering that each spell's effect is spread to all party members.)

Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil is a 7-level PrC with full spellcasting.
That's enough to make it powerful.
On top of that, each level gives it the ability to raise one or more layers of a moveable Prismatic Wall as a standard action a couple times per day. The
Initiate can choose different veils to stop different sorts of items and effects according to the party's and the opposition's abilities.
These veils can eventually be raised as an immediate action.
Iot7V gives some other minor benefits I can't remember now. The veils are the big thing.

Archmage is just there because it's an overall good class (it gives benefits basically for free which would typically require several levels of metamagic) and because Iot7V shares most of its prerequisites.

[CTLC]

Im currently playing a generalist wizard(with domain wiz variant, storm domain) 5, Incantatrix 4, IoT7V 2, and let me tell you, it's incredibly powerful defensively. Has some offensive muscle too. At level 10, I sank a fleet in under a minute without taking damage.

The build works best with another spellcaster around, that way you can abuse both the cooperative spellcasting and the ability to apply metamagics to buffs. Since both work 3+int mod times per day(12 each for me), this gives you an utterly ridiculous number of possible buffs. In my particular case, I have a mystic theurge buddy who gladly tosses a couple fun buffs on me like lesser vigor in return for me persisting his buffs via cooperative spellcasting.

im not willing/allowed to do that much cheese.

[Tyndmyr]

The other two major abilities are a bonus of Iot7V level to abjuration spells vs dispel attempts and kaledescopic doom. The latter option fries all the buffs on the target creature, and then, for each buff on it, subjects it to the effects of a veil, working its way from first to last. It's pretty much death for a buffed up caster type.

[Tyndmyr]

im not willing/allowed to do that much cheese.

Yeah...we play at a very high level of optimization. It's pretty much assumed that every rogue will pick up a ring of blink, for example. DMs now avoid even mentioning valuables as part of the scenery, because they WILL somehow be stolen.

Basically, find the level of power you're willing to play at, and go with that. Spells are as much a part of this as build is. For instance, I COULD persist lesser ironguard, which combined with a few other spells, makes me nearly immune to damage entirely...but I like to give the DM the illusion that Im still mortal, and can be damaged. Use the juice on other party members instead, and watch them enjoy their power. Plus, you're a far less obvious target in combat then, since all the critical spells have been cast just before going to bed or in the early morning.

[Myou]

Im currently playing a generalist wizard(with domain wiz variant, storm domain) 5, Incantatrix 4, IoT7V 2, and let me tell you, it's incredibly powerful defensively. Has some offensive muscle too. At level 10, I sank a fleet in under a minute without taking damage.

The build works best with another spellcaster around, that way you can abuse both the cooperative spellcasting and the ability to apply metamagics to buffs. Since both work 3+int mod times per day(12 each for me), this gives you an utterly ridiculous number of possible buffs. In my particular case, I have a mystic theurge buddy who gladly tosses a couple fun buffs on me like lesser vigor in return for me persisting his buffs via cooperative spellcasting.

Domain wizards can't enter Incantatrix. Did the DM houserule that in?

[KellKheraptis]

Domain wizards can't enter Incantatrix. Did the DM houserule that in?

Uh...since when? A normal generalist or a specialist can, what explicitly forbids a domain wizard? There's nothing stating they aren't allowed to ban a school of magic, after all.

[magic9mushroom]

Just a note: You need 3 levels of Master Specialist to get both the feats that get you into IotSV.

[PhoenixRivers]

If you prefer a more simple build, you can go:

Abjurer (Wizard) 3 / Master Specialist 6 / Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7 / Master Specialist +4

That would be for a more dispel oriented build.

For a support/counterspell/dispeller?

Abjurer 3 / Master Specialist 10 / War Weaver 5 / Archmage 2

Throw Personal range spells into the weave.

[CTLC]

Ye, the build is more dispelling, counterspelling, and basically non-lethal incapacitate moves. War weaver would make a buffing god, but i dont think im allowed to use it, so abjurer 3, master specialist 6, enter Iot7FV at level 10, which is the soonest possible, and then master specialist it out i guess.

...
Whats a domain wizard?

[magic9mushroom]

Ye, the build is more dispelling, counterspelling, and basically non-lethal incapacitate moves. War weaver would make a buffing god, but i dont think im allowed to use it, so abjurer 3, master specialist 6, enter Iot7FV at level 10, which is the soonest possible, and then master specialist it out i guess.

...
Whats a domain wizard?

If you took Precocious Apprentice you could get into Master Specialist a level early, which allows you to get Mastery of Counterspelling later.

[CTLC]

1. Precocious Apprentice?
2. Mastery of Counterspelling?
3. Domain wizards again?

[Greenish]

Whats a domain wizard?

UA variant wizard: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/cl...ntDomainWizard

[CTLC]

wow, i just checked the srd and totally missed that, thanks a ton.

I assume I cannot take a domain and specialize, so i shall specialize in abjuration.

[magic9mushroom]

1. Precocious Apprentice?

A feat. Complete Arcane. Gives you a 2nd level spell slot at level 1. Cheesy way to early-entry PrCs that require 2nd-level spells.

2. Mastery of Counterspelling?

High Arcana choice for Archmage. Dungeon Master's Guide. Any spell you counter that can be reflected is. Very fun when people chuck Save or Dies at you.

3. Domain wizards again?

Yeah, Unearthed Arcana, and no, you can't specialise.

[CTLC]

taking all this into account, what is the best build for abjurer, master specialist, Iot7FV, and then archmage, for mastery of the spelling of the counter variety?

Trying to get as far as possible in as few levels as possible, starting at level 3, level fairly quickly.

[Eldariel]

taking all this into account, what is the best build for abjurer, master specialist, Iot7FV, and then archmage, for mastery of the spelling of the counter variety?

Trying to get as far as possible in as few levels as possible, starting at level 3, level fairly quickly.

Well, you can go Wizard 2/Master Abjurer 7/Initiate 7/Master Abjurer 3/Archmage 1 pre-epic. Precocious Apprentice with FS enables Master Specialist entry on 3. That buys you one level for Archmage, though you'd really want two levels to pick up Arcane Reach too. It's really the best high arcana and goes great with Master Abjurer 10 ability. But meh, you can't fit more than 1 level of Archmage no matter what if you want both, Initiate and Master Abjurer capstones (both of which are awesome).

[CTLC]

Well, you can go Wizard 2/Master Abjurer 7/Initiate 7/Master Abjurer 3/Archmage 1 pre-epic. Precocious Apprentice with FS enables Master Specialist entry on 3. That buys you one level for Archmage, though you'd really want two levels to pick up Arcane Reach too. It's really the best high arcana and goes great with Master Abjurer 10 ability. But meh, you can't fit more than 1 level of Archmage no matter what if you want both, Initiate and Master Abjurer capstones (both of which are awesome).

And it is impossible to get that second level of archmage in there somehow?

Edit: its unnecessary really, doubt id get to level 20 anyways. What should i do for stats, obviously i want 18 int, and a high con. Does anything else really matter?

Also, feats, i have one for human, one for creation, and one for level 3. Im taking precocious apprentice, and possibly improved initiative, anything else worth taking?