Sound Lance (Spell Compendium)

[magic9mushroom]

This looks like a really fricking awesome spell for 3rd level, doing 1d8 per caster level to max 10d8, of sonic damage no less, and it can't be Evaded. Even if saved against, it still does almost as much damage as an Orb of Sound.

But I'd never heard of it until I noticed it browsing through Spell Compendium just then.

Is there something I'm missing?

[Mystic Muse]

yes there is.

Uberchargers are better.

[Hallavast]

This looks like a really fricking awesome spell for 3rd level, doing 1d8 per caster level to max 10d8, of sonic damage no less, and it can't be Evaded. Even if saved against, it still does almost as much damage as an Orb of Sound.

But I'd never heard of it until I noticed it browsing through Spell Compendium just then.

Is there something I'm missing?

Compare it to fireball. It is higher damage dice, but only single target. It requires a fort save (which sucks because most big monsters have good fort saves). It can be "evaded" with mettle. It is still capped at 10d8. It is still a low level spell that requires a save. It is still direct damage.

Edit: The range is medium compared to Fireball's long. It is explicitly cancelled by silence.
On the other hand, it's pretty good for blastin' unattended objects.

[magic9mushroom]

yes there is.

Uberchargers are better.

Direct damage spells can be useful, though. *points to Orb spells*

And this does almost as much damage as an Orb (more, if you haven't maxed out the CL cap), out of a lower level slot.

Comparing Maximised Sound Lance to Empowered Orb of Sound (and we all know that Maximise is suboptimal for its power boost) gives 80 damage compared to 56.25.

Useful for disrupting casting, wouldn't you say?

[Hallavast]

Direct damage spells can be useful, though. *points to Orb spells*

And this does almost as much damage as an Orb (more, if you haven't maxed out the CL cap), out of a lower level slot.

The reason orbs are so saucy is because they deal damage on a touch attack regardless of saves, and they ignore SR. Soundlance falls short of meeting these key features.

[Adumbration]

Compare it to fireball. It is higher damage dice, but only single target. It requires a fort save (which sucks because most big monsters have good fort saves). It can be "evaded" with mettle. It is still capped at 10d8. It is still a low level spell that requires a save. It is still direct damage.

Edit: The range is medium compared to Fireball's long. It is explicitly cancelled by silence.
On the other hand, it's pretty good for blastin' unattended objects.

It is a lower level spell, though. And I can't remember a single monster that has Mettle, and it's very rare even for PCs. So 99% of the time you're automatically dealing 5d8 damage, even against monsters with good fort saves.

I think it's a good spell. I've used it myself in arena type of games, especially against casters.

[Temotei]

It is a lower level spell, though. And I can't remember a single monster that has Mettle, and it's very rare even for PCs. So 99% of the time you're automatically dealing 5d8 damage, even against monsters with good fort saves.

I think it's a good spell. I've used it myself in arena type of games, especially against casters.

Fireball is a 3rd level spell.

Automatic 5d8 is assuming you're at least level ten. You get the spell at level five (minimum), so you could be doing 2d8.

[magic9mushroom]

Fireball is a 3rd level spell.

Lower than Orbs, that is.

[Adumbration]

Fireball is a 3rd level spell.

Huh. That's funny, could've sworn it was 4th. Ah well, never used it. My other points stand, though.

[Temotei]

Huh. That's funny, could've sworn it was 4th. Ah well, never used it. My other points stand, though.

Mettle is indeed rare. Evasion is more common, but monsters often are missing that as well. They more commonly have high Fortitude saves.

Fireball does less damage, but not by much, and it hits several enemies. It's not canceled by silence, and it uses Reflex as its half-damage save.

Against casters, this sound spell is probably better. Against everything else, there's Master Card fireball is pretty much better. Unless your enemies happen to have fire resistance.

[Hallavast]

Huh. That's funny, could've sworn it was 4th. Ah well, never used it. My other points stand, though.

They do stand.

As a DM I've made more than one NPC with mettle. My point was that if fireball is counteracted by evasion, then soundlance is counteracted by mettle.

At level 10+, 5d8 is not enough against a single monster. 5d6 against 4 or more mooks is more reasonable.

[magic9mushroom]

They do stand.

As a DM I've made more than one NPC with mettle. My point was that if fireball is counteracted by evasion, then soundlance is counteracted by mettle.

Evasion IS more common than mettle, though, by a long way.

At level 10+, 5d8 is not enough against a single monster. 5d6 against 4 or more mooks is more reasonable.

Still quite useful as an easy concentration disrupter. It's also Sonic damage, which is less resisted IIRC.

[PhoenixRivers]

It is a lower level spell, though. And I can't remember a single monster that has Mettle, and it's very rare even for PCs. So 99% of the time you're automatically dealing 5d8 damage, even against monsters with good fort saves.

I think it's a good spell. I've used it myself in arena type of games, especially against casters.

5d8 damage averages to 22.5 damage.
10d8 damage averages to 45 damage.

Compare to Empowered Magic Missile.

(5d4+5) x1.5 (at caster level 9) = 26.25 average damage. Splittable, not subject to resistances or immunities (against 99.99% enemies). No attack roll required, no save allowed. Hits incorporeal/ethereal reliably. Stopped only by short duration spells that are less likely to be memorized.

This is why Sound Lance is only 'ok'.

[magic9mushroom]

5d8 damage averages to 22.5 damage.
10d8 damage averages to 45 damage.

Compare to Empowered Magic Missile.

(5d4+5) x1.5 (at caster level 9) = 26.25 average damage. Splittable, not subject to resistances or immunities (against 99.99% enemies). No attack roll required, no save allowed. Hits incorporeal/ethereal reliably. Stopped only by short duration spells that are less likely to be memorized.

This is why Sound Lance is only 'ok'.

Shield.

Also, Sound Lance doesn't require an attack roll either.

[Hallavast]

Shield.

How many monsters have shield active vs. have a good fort save?

Harumph!

[PhoenixRivers]

Shield.

Also, Sound Lance doesn't require an attack roll either.

But it allows a save. Magic Missile allows neither a save nor an attack roll.
It's just: Cast. Damage. That's all.

Shield is a short duration spell. Not highly likely to be cast by a typical caster (as compared to, say, mage armor).

[Temotei]

And there's no such thing as force resistance.

[Adumbration]

It is a cleric spell, though, unlike Magic Missile. Clerics get none too many blasty spells.

(I personally used it Sudden Maximized with an Ur-priest, so my stance may be biased.)

[sonofzeal]

The comparison is Sound Lance vs Fireball.


Fireball has longer range, hits several people, and targets a better save.

Sound Lance does more damage, is harder to completely negate, and is a far better energy type.



.....eh, seems balanced to me.

[Temotei]

It is a cleric spell, though, unlike Magic Missile. Clerics get none too many blasty spells.

(I personally used it Sudden Maximized with an Ur-priest, so my stance may be biased.)

True that it is a cleric spell, which basically proves that it's inferior.

[PhoenixRivers]

It is a cleric spell, though, unlike Magic Missile. Clerics get none too many blasty spells.

(I personally used it Sudden Maximized with an Ur-priest, so my stance may be biased.)

Also, unlike fireball. But you've not had a problem comparing it to one of the worse wizard evocation spells out there.

Magic Missile is available to clerics via domain. Domain Spontanaety will allow it to be spamcast.

[KellKheraptis]

Cast Triplecast or whatever the one is that splits one slot into three if you really wanna spam it up. I was trying to find a nice blast spell yesterday and found the same problem...all the good ones are either medium range no save/SR, or medium range and allowed a save. And I still could have sworn there was a blast somewhere that did automatic damage on a RTA to the primary target and then burst for AoE that was Ref half for anyone who happened to be near the poor dude who ate it in the face.

[Superglucose]

I think I've sufficiently proven that Magic Missile is indeed on the Cleric spell list if you get creative enough

[magic9mushroom]

Cast Triplecast or whatever the one is that splits one slot into three if you really wanna spam it up. I was trying to find a nice blast spell yesterday and found the same problem...all the good ones are either medium range no save/SR, or medium range and allowed a save. And I still could have sworn there was a blast somewhere that did automatic damage on a RTA to the primary target and then burst for AoE that was Ref half for anyone who happened to be near the poor dude who ate it in the face.

Meteor Swarm?

[KellKheraptis]

Meteor Swarm?

Meteor swarm functions now as the Druid 9 spell of similar form (only it's electric based)? And besides...it's sadly set at 24d6 max, which when I can uncap a lowly kelgore's firebolt to do full CL, seems kinda piddly :P

[magic9mushroom]

Meteor swarm functions now as the Druid 9 spell of similar form (only it's electric based)? And besides...it's sadly set at 24d6 max, which when I can uncap a lowly kelgore's firebolt to do full CL, seems kinda piddly :P

Hey, you said you'd swear there was a spell which acted Meteor Swarmishly, so I pointed it out. Don't get cranky at me for answering your question.

Also, what is the Druid 9 spell you mention? And from whence does Kelgore's Firebolt come?

[Hallavast]

Hey, you said you'd swear there was a spell which acted Meteor Swarmishly, so I pointed it out. Don't get cranky at me for answering your question.

Harumph!

Also, what is the Druid 9 spell you mention? And from whence does Kelgore's Firebolt come?

PHB2. I'd be interested in knowing how one would go about "uncapping" it. It looked like a pretty crappy spell to me (plus you'd have to be at least CL 25 to beat the swarm).

[magic9mushroom]

Harumph!

PHB2. I'd be interested in knowing how one would go about "uncapping" it. It looked like a pretty crappy spell to me (plus you'd have to be at least CL 25 to beat the swarm).

No ideas as to the Druid 9 spell?

[KellKheraptis]

Hey, you said you'd swear there was a spell which acted Meteor Swarmishly, so I pointed it out. Don't get cranky at me for answering your question.

Also, what is the Druid 9 spell you mention? And from whence does Kelgore's Firebolt come?

I hadn't realized meteor swarm had direct fire capability...Kelgore's firebolt is PHB II, and the druid spell in question isn't up on the spell database, as Masters of the Wild wasn't completed on there. I'll have to go digging for my copy and then see if it was reprinted. Functionally, it was meteor swarm, only electricity damage.

EDIT : Uncapping is accomplished via Reserves of Strength, from Dragonlance Campaign Setting. +1-3 CL (for 1d6/3d6/5d6 damage if you're immune to stunning, which you are if you're a good little caster and have elemental body 24/7) and removal of dice caps on spells. If you have a ridiculous caster level, stuff like phantom steed is fun too, since mathematically you can fly at Mach 1+ :D

[Dhavaer]

Hey, you said you'd swear there was a spell which acted Meteor Swarmishly, so I pointed it out. Don't get cranky at me for answering your question.

Also, what is the Druid 9 spell you mention? And from whence does Kelgore's Firebolt come?

Kelgore's Firebolt is from PHB2. 1d6/lvl, max 5d6, Ref half, single target at medium range. A good level 1 blasty spell because it scales so quickly.