Races of War type Monsters? [3.5]

[Kobold-Bard]

I'm wondering what peoples opinion of the Races of War method (method 1) for playing monsters.

1. Take the Monster's CR and add 1. This is your ECL.

2. Take the Elite Stat Array, and subtract them from the Monster's in-book Stats, taking the highest number from the highest Stat (the 15 from a Succubus' Cha score etc.). The number that's left = the bonus you get for that stat.

I like it, but I am pretty bad at judging balance. Like/dislike/etc?

[PairO'Dice Lost]

The only real issue with that method is arbitrary assignment of CR; as long as you take a look at the monster and ensure that the CR is mostly accurate before going through the process (so you don't, for instance, work up an ECL 10 adamantine horror), it should work fine.

[Eurus]

My suggestion would be to also make hit dice equal ECL so you don't end up with ECL 8 but 16 HD elementals, but it seems better than the normal method.

[bosssmiley]

Like. The RoW system shows LA up for the hideous kludged mess it is.

Of course, RoW monster races do require a modicum of sense from the DM, and good manners from the players, to avoid outbreaks of 'puzzle monster' or 'invisible [awesome] typed race' PCs. That in itself makes it an advanced play option.

[Kobold-Bard]

The only real issue with that method is arbitrary assignment of CR; as long as you take a look at the monster and ensure that the CR is mostly accurate before going through the process (so you don't, for instance, work up an ECL 10 adamantine horror), it should work fine.

This is where the [Awesome] subtype comes into play, you add it to monsters that are obviously under-CR'd. So yes, the system does need some arbitration, but at least it's a step in the right direction

My suggestion would be to also make hit dice equal ECL so you don't end up with ECL 8 but 16 HD elementals, but it seems better than the normal method.

Hmmm...The one that jumps out at me here is LA0 Pixies, but this could work. More investigation is needed (yay Science )

[PairO'Dice Lost]

This is where the [Awesome] subtype comes into play, you add it to monsters that are obviously under-CR'd. So yes, the system does need some arbitration, but at least it's a step in the right direction

The [Awesome] tag thing is a good step, but to my knowledge F&K never put out a list of what they considered awesome (aside from rules of thumb like "most true dragons and high-HD outsiders"), hence my warning to analyze critters carefully before PC-ifying them.

[Starbuck_II]

I'm wondering what peoples opinion of the Races of War method (method 1) for playing monsters.

1. Take the Monster's CR and add 1. This is your ECL.

2. Take the Elite Stat Array, and subtract them from the Monster's in-book Stats, taking the highest number from the highest Stat (the 15 from a Succubus' Cha score etc.). The number that's left = the bonus you get for that stat.

I like it, but I am pretty bad at judging balance. Like/dislike/etc?

Hmm, Ogre: ECL (3+1)= 4
Normal stats: +10 Strength, -2 Dexterity, +4 Constitution, -4 Intelligence, -4 Charisma.
RoW stats: Str +6, Dex -4, Con +0, Int -4, Wis +2, Cha -2

Well, you get better Wisdom, but lower dex/Str/Con.

Hmm, Ogre Mage: ECL (8+1)= 9
Normal stats: +10 Strength, +6 Constitution, +4 Intelligence, +4 Wisdom, +6 Charisma.
RoW stats: Str +6, Dex -2, Con +2, Int +4, Wis +2, Cha +4 (both Int or Wisdom are same stat so they can be switched)

Lower Str, Con, Dex, Cha: depending on choice Int or Wisdom will be lower.

But I think Ogre Mage is better balanced at ECL 9 than 12.

Pixie's (Awesome tag or no?) ECL = 4 +1 (5) or 5+1 (6)
Normal Stats: -4 Strength, +8 Dexterity, +6 Intelligence, +4 Wisdom, +6 Charisma.
RoW stats: Str +0, Dex +2, Con +0, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +2

Pixie doesn't lose much. They gain +4 Str (since they used to lose it), but lose Dex, Int, Cha, and Wisdom bonus (though they they still make it +2's).

Pixie's CR equal LA so you don't win by using this method.