[3.5]Binder/Warlock

[Ishcumbeebeeda]

What do people think of the combination from an RP and/or mechanics point of view, and what do you think a good PrC would be for, say, Binder 5/ Warlock 5. (Or Binder x/ Warlock x, I just picked 5 cuz I'm a little OCD....)

EDIT: Also, considering that a Warlock's invocations and EB give him a CL, do you think there are any PrC that are generally for Sor/Wiz/etc. that would be worth it? (For instance Blood Magus, which doesn't have a Spell requirement, but only a CL requirement... Though Blood Magus itself may not be the best example for a warlock, it's just the first one I could think of that had just a CL requirement)

[SaintRidley]

Warlock with 1 level binder dip for Naberius + Hellfire warlock. A standard combination for them.

[Human Paragon 3]

My read is that it will be mechanically weak. You slow your invocation development and your vestige power down significantly, so that at level 10 you would only have the power level of a 5th level character.

If you had some prestige class that advanced both (I don't believe such a class exists, but somebody will prove me wrong) that could be worth considering.

Alternatively, you could just tip Binder for one or two vestiges that WOULD be really beneficial to a warlock, like the one that heals ability damage for Hellfire Warlock, which is downright broken.

[Thurbane]

I am in the middle of making a homebrew Binder/Warlock theurge PrC, but I believe there is already somewhere on the Homebrew board here - it is keyed to a specific hombrew vestige, from memory.

[Barbarian MD]

It was made by Stycotl:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...57#post4483757

[CockroachTeaParty]

Yeah, seconding the Naberius/Hellfire Warlock combo. You only need a single Binder level to do it, and suddenly you can use hellfire with relative impunity, no doubt pissing off Mephistopheles in the process. Good luck getting insurance.

[Ishcumbeebeeda]

Yeah, seconding the Naberius/Hellfire Warlock combo. You only need a single Binder level to do it, and suddenly you can use hellfire with relative impunity, no doubt pissing off Mephistopheles in the process. Good luck getting insurance.

That does look pretty cool, and pissing off powerful supernatural beings is always fun... now if I could only find a game

[CockroachTeaParty]

You and me both, pal. You and me both.

[Kelb_Panthera]

If you don't mind a little cheese, you could use one of the early entry tricks to qualify for anima mage with only one level of sorc/wiz or some other full casting arcane class, so it'd be for example Wiz1/Warlock2/Binder 3/anima mage x where anima mage advances binder and warlock. I like the improved sigil krau trick for this sort of thing, since the fluff for illumians makes them out to be masters of multiclassing anyway.

[Optimystik]

Anima Mage can indeed advance Warlock - the problem is qualifying for it.

But why would you want to combine them? Just to be an at-will master or something?

[Vizzerdrix]

Warlock with 1 level binder dip for Naberius + Hellfire warlock. A standard combination for them.

This+ Tricklock* can get competitive damaged at higher levels. Sneak attacking with hellfire beams from your fingertips from the sky. Such fun! ^_^



*(warlock+ Arcane Trickster. Obtainable with the spell Hand feat, a few rogue levels OR a 1 level dip in any of the UA generic classes and something like asimar that has a 3rd level or higher spell as a SLA.)

[gorfnab]

Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Hellfire Warlock 3

[Draz74]

Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Hellfire Warlock 3

As standard powergamer builds go, this one is at least chock full of consistent flavor.

[SaintRidley]

Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Hellfire Warlock 3

I like it. I might make use of it sometime, for kicks.

[Optimystik]

As standard powergamer builds go, this one is at least chock full of consistent flavor.

Not quite - Ur-priest can't have a deity, and Eldritch Disciple needs one if there are no dead deities in your campaign, your DM will be all too happy to scupper this.

[Vizzerdrix]

Not quite - Ur-priest can't have a deity, and Eldritch Disciple needs one if there are no dead deities in your campaign, your DM will be all too happy to scupper this.

Simple fix: Kill a god.

[SaintRidley]

Not quite - Ur-priest can't have a deity, and Eldritch Disciple needs one if there are no dead deities in your campaign, your DM will be all too happy to scupper this.

If it's a campaign with Mind Flayers or Orcus as major antagonists, Maanzecorian makes for a solid choice.

[Optimystik]

Simple fix: Kill a god.

Of course... Now why on earth didn't I think of that...

If it's a campaign with Mind Flayers or Orcus as major antagonists, Maanzecorian makes for a solid choice.

...Who?

[Starbuck_II]

Not quite - Ur-priest can't have a deity, and Eldritch Disciple needs one if there are no dead deities in your campaign, your DM will be all too happy to scupper this.

No, Ur-Priest can't have living deity. Orcus qualifies as he was a diety and died. So as long as the demons exist you have a dead diety.

[LichPrinceAlim]

I'd suggest Warlock 7/Ur Priest 5/Eldritch Disciple 5/Binder 1/Hellfire Warlock 3

Seriously? Full Divine Spells, Hellfire Abuse, AND blending the two into one blast?!

[hamishspence]

Wasn't Orcus killed, came back as an undead deity, and then brought back to life by a cleric of his?

In the process, losing his godhood, which became, not a "dead deity" but a vestige, in Tome of Magic?

(though Tome of Magic does have rules for clerics of Tenebrous (Orcus's divine form- maybe being turned into a vestige counts as being "killed" for this purpose.)

[Draz74]

I'd suggest Warlock 4/Ur Priest 5/Eldritch Disciple 5/Binder 1/Hellfire Warlock 5

Seriously? Full Divine Spells, Hellfire Abuse, AND blending the two into one blast?!

Uh ... since when does Hellfire Warlock have more than 3 levels?

[SaintRidley]

...Who?

A dead Mind Flayer god that Orcus killed during his time as Tenebrous.

[gorfnab]

Not quite - Ur-priest can't have a deity, and Eldritch Disciple needs one if there are no dead deities in your campaign, your DM will be all too happy to scupper this.

Depending on what time line you're going with Amaunator, Mystra, Ibrundul, Leira, Moander, Bhaal, can all be considered dead gods.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Ur-Priest is fun, but if the GM deep-6's it, here's a fun one for ya:

Binder1/Warlock6/Mindbender1/Warlock1/Hellfire Warlock3/Legacy Champion 8

Nothing says 'screw you' like +20d6 Hellfire... plus Mindsight to make sure you know where they are. Eldritch Glaive FTW!

[Optimystik]

No, Ur-Priest can't have living deity. Orcus qualifies as he was a diety and died. So as long as the demons exist you have a dead diety.

In that case you would be worshipping Tenebrous, not Orcus (who became a separate entity, and a vestige, and therefore may not count.)

Depending on what time line you're going with Amaunator, Mystra, Ibrundul, Leira, Moander, Bhaal, can all be considered dead gods.

And of those, only two would sponsor an evil ED.

And of those two, one's power is already being siphoned by a living deity (Moander -> Finder Wyvernspur)

And of course, all are FR, while your DM's campaign may not be.

But if you bypass all of that... then yes, there are dead gods to choose from in Faerun, hopefully.

(I would allow it, personally.)

[Chrono22]

I honestly think the two classes could be combined (class features, binder level, all of it) and the result would still not be overpowered in a standard D&D party.

[Ishcumbeebeeda]

Anima Mage can indeed advance Warlock - the problem is qualifying for it.

But why would you want to combine them? Just to be an at-will master or something?

I'm not really sure, it's just an idea that got stuck in my head. I think I like the possible RP applications of being someone who's ancestors made a pact with some horrifyingly powerful creature to get some power and who now binds the essences of all but forgotten creatures of similar (or greater) power. I think that when this concept first rooted itself in my mind I had some vague idea about binding the vestige of the creature that my great-great-and-so-on grandfather made a pact with to gain his warlock powers. Idk, it just sounds like a cool combination to me. (Also, it might be fun to eldritch blast a village full of people trying to burn me at the stake.)