[3.5] Tailoring monsters magical/psionic powers

[Barlen]

I seem to recall somewhere that the entries in the MM were for "typical" examples of the creature and in most cases not straight jackets on how they are used.

When using creatures from the Monster manuals that have magical (or psionic) powers listed that don't specifically come from caster levels, what rules are there on swapping out similar or equivelent powers? How do you judge what is equal and how to you judge when to increase (or decrease?) the CR if you tailor your mob this way? I am mostly thinking 3.5 here.

I don't necessarily have a specific example, I was just wondering.

[Sinfire Titan]

I'd like to personally sit down and run through the MMs and retool a monster's stats, spells, and feats to make them viable threats, so I don't have to grab encounters 4-7 levels above my party's ECL just to actually challenge them.


A simple Martial Study on the basic MM1 Orc, for example, turns them into a dangerous foe.

[Kol Korran]

i don't think there are any hard rules on how to do it. i think most times you can swap Spell like powers or super natural ones with similar powers.

frankly, most DMs play the monsters as they are, perhaps with adding class levels or templates to make them different.

small tweaking might be nice, though some players may feel "cheated" that the monster isn't exactly what they think (then boo them!) i'd suggest not to deviate too much of the norm unless you have a good reason for the change. (a fey that has somewhat different spells sounds fine. one that suddenly has the immunities of a construct might be too strange. unless of course you have a great explenation for it )

self promoting note: if you want to see some major monster remakes, mostly out of the fluff angle (but also crunch) follow the link at my sig. warning: loooooooong posts.

hope this helped,
Kol.

[Starbuck_II]

I seem to recall somewhere that the entries in the MM were for "typical" examples of the creature and in most cases not straight jackets on how they are used.

When using creatures from the Monster manuals that have magical (or psionic) powers listed that don't specifically come from caster levels, what rules are there on swapping out similar or equivelent powers? How do you judge what is equal and how to you judge when to increase (or decrease?) the CR if you tailor your mob this way? I am mostly thinking 3.5 here.

I don't necessarily have a specific example, I was just wondering.

There aren't.

The only creatures with authority to swap are ones with natural casting like Dragons have Sorceror known (this can be changed), Nymph, etc.

Those who have special spell-like abilities like 1/2 Fiend, Ogre Mage, have CR based on current spells.
By changing the spells you change the CR by a wide gap.

Heck, when the designers we did the Ogre Mage in an article they lowered the CR.

[Sinfire Titan]

There aren't.

The only creatures with authority to swap are ones with natural casting like Dragons have Sorceror known (this can be changed), Nymph, etc.

Those who have special spell-like abilities like 1/2 Fiend, Ogre Mage, have CR based on current spells.
By changing the spells you change the CR by a wide gap.

Heck, when the designers we did the Ogre Mage in an article they lowered the CR.

Hold up, yes there are. FC2 has rules for a Pit Fiend, and Dungeonscape has them for several iconic Dungeon monsters.

[Starbuck_II]

Did they change CR?
What chapter in FC 2?
I checked FC 2 and didn't find it.

[Sinfire Titan]

Did they change CR?
What chapter?

Dungeonscape CH5, pg 103.

No visible change to CR from the text.

[Starbuck_II]

Dungeonscape CH5, pg 103.

No visible change to CR from the text.

DS only talks about changing feats. That isn't as big as change becuse feats aren't racial: anyone can get them if they quallify.