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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

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    Default (3.5) [Spell] Like a fish out of water... [PEACH]

    This is pretty off the cuff. Is level 3 across the board because either a creature really needs this (something aquatic) or it doesn't give nearly as fast a movement rate as Air Walk. For the same reason I removed the size limitation (well, that and the fact that flying blue whales are just a dreamy/trippy concept*).

    *Of course, you would ALSO have to cast Air Breathing (or is it a secondary use of Water Breathing?) if you use a Titanic shark instead of a whale.


    Air Swim
    Transmutation [Air, Water]
    Level: Clr 3, Drd 3, Water 3
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature Touched
    Duration: 10 min./level
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: Yes (Harmless)

    You may treat air as water for the purposes of movement(including the swim-by attack feat), allowing you to swim straight upwards, etc. this has no affect on your attacks (except as mentioned above) or respiration. If this spell ends (including if dispelled) you drop (unless another effect would prevent this), generally taking falling damage.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2010-02-18 at 02:13 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Zom B's Avatar

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    Default Re: (3.5) [Spell] Like a fish out of water... [PEACH]

    I'd probably demote this to 2nd level. The reasoning is that its big brother Air Walk, a 4th level spell, has too many advantages over this one to justify a one-level drop in spell level. Compare:

    Quote Originally Posted by Air Walk
    The subject can tread on air as if walking on solid ground. Moving upward is similar to walking up a hill. The maximum upward or downward angle possible is 45 degrees, at a rate equal to one-half the air walker’s normal speed.
    So you have movement of at least 30 feet per round on a single move, but in all probability it's a 4x run for 120 feet.

    Compare: Swim. Unless you have a swim speed, you move one-half your speed with a successful check, so 15 feet, as a full-round action. Now, it is true that your spell allows upward movement, while Air Walk demands you climb at 45 degree angles, but the net upward speed is not that much faster (just did some quick math, and even moving at just 60 feet per round, a 45-degree angle is much more upward distance travelled rather than 15 feet. It works out to something like 40 feet in upward distance travelled, but my math could be wrong [60/sqrt(2)? That right?]). Plus, I don't have to deal with armor check penalties with Air Walk.
    Last edited by Zom B; 2010-02-17 at 09:22 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Latronis's Avatar

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    Default Re: (3.5) [Spell] Like a fish out of water... [PEACH]

    it's pretty awesome if you do have a swim speed though, especially since it's not uncommon for swim speeds to be higher than land speed

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    DracoDei's Avatar

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    Default Re: (3.5) [Spell] Like a fish out of water... [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Latronis View Post
    it's pretty awesome if you do have a swim speed though, especially since it's not uncommon for swim speeds to be higher than land speed
    Was that a vote for keeping it level 3 or just saying it was pretty cool for a level 2?
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  5. - Top - End - #5
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    Default Re: (3.5) [Spell] Like a fish out of water... [PEACH]

    Honestly I think Zom B has a point in that it's a lot worse than air walk. Also seems reasonable for flight attainable at ECL3 if you wanna make it easier to get such at that level.

    Although I think it's too awesome as a 2nd lv for those that do have a swim speed.

    And you have a point too, it's a rather obscure method of flight to be such a low level.

    I'd say overall leave it at 3rd level, we don't really need more ways to fly earlier, and it's too good for swimmers, if you arn't a natural swimmer you can still fly with it, and air walk is just around the corner anyway.

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    DracoDei's Avatar

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    Default Re: (3.5) [Spell] Like a fish out of water... [PEACH]

    Level 3 it is... also put in the mention of the Swim-by Attack feat.
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  7. - Top - End - #7
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    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: (3.5) [Spell] Like a fish out of water... [PEACH]

    I think you should also allow Air 3 in addition to Water 3 especially since you put it in the brackets. You should also mention that this spell does not confer any air-breathing ability to a creature that cannot breathe air.

    Debby
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Latronis's Avatar

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    Default Re: (3.5) [Spell] Like a fish out of water... [PEACH]

    It does say it has no effect on respiration

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    Zom B's Avatar

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    Default Re: (3.5) [Spell] Like a fish out of water... [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Latronis View Post
    It does say it has no effect on respiration
    Which, counter to what the OP probably meant, means that this spell does not grant you any respiratory effects and therefore you cannot suddenly breathe air unless you could before.

    The example the OP gave in later posts was of a flying whale. Whales are air-breathing, not water-breathing, so that works out.
    Zombitar courtesy of Djinn_In_Tonic.

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    Latronis's Avatar

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    Default Re: (3.5) [Spell] Like a fish out of water... [PEACH]

    why would you think it's counter to intent? The first line is you may treat air as water for the purposes of movement.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Zom B's Avatar

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    Default Re: (3.5) [Spell] Like a fish out of water... [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Latronis View Post
    why would you think it's counter to intent? The first line is you may treat air as water for the purposes of movement.
    Read that bolded part and ask yourself, "Is respiration a type of movement?"
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  12. - Top - End - #12
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    DracoDei's Avatar

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    Default Re: (3.5) [Spell] Like a fish out of water... [PEACH]

    Debihuman: The idea with putting it on the Water domain list was to make it easier/more likely for tritons and such to access. I don't want to spread it around too much, but that one list seemed appropriate to add to the basic cleric and druid lists.

    Zom B: Latronis has it right. The whale example implicitly assumes that you also have cast Air Breathing. I will edit to make the example more explicit.
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  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Zom B's Avatar

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    Default Re: (3.5) [Spell] Like a fish out of water... [PEACH]

    You wouldn't have to cast anything on whales. They breathe air anyway.
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

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    Default Re: (3.5) [Spell] Like a fish out of water... [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zom B View Post
    You wouldn't have to cast anything on whales. They breathe air anyway.
    *Sounds of repeated head-desking at own lack of brain-power.*

    Ok, made sort of a kludgy edit to take care of that.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2010-02-18 at 02:13 PM.
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  15. - Top - End - #15
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: (3.5) [Spell] Like a fish out of water... [PEACH]

    Air Swim
    Transmutation [Air, Water]
    That's why I thought it should be Air 3. It is confusing to have it as an "Air" spell if can't be cast by the Air Domain.

    You'll get it eventually.

    Debby
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
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  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

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    Default Re: (3.5) [Spell] Like a fish out of water... [PEACH]

    Yes, I know, but I THINK lots of spells have that descriptor without being on the domain list... Wind Walk itself is one example*. I put that in their so that it comes more strongly to mind if you have a line in a creature entry that says something along the lines of "Pidgeon-folk favor spells with the [Air] descriptor." and, more importantly, so it counts for cases like "Eagle-folk get +1 caster level for the purposes of any spell with the [Air] descriptor."


    *although I do find it odd that Obscuring Mist has NEITHER the [Air] or [Water] type, despite being on the domain list for BOTH the Air and Water domains.

    In either case my previous reasoning still over-rules your (perfectly valid in the abstract) reasoning. What I might consider doing (especially if you think it is a good idea) is removing it from the Water domain.
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