Confusion about the ability-gain Tomes

[Vorpalbob]

We all know and love the Tomes/Manuals of gain X ability +1-5, and I have a question;

If you read a +1 tome, then a +2, then +3, Then +4, then +5, all for the same ability, would you gain a +15 bonus?

[Xenogears]

No. Inherent Bonuses don't stack. You would only gain the largest bonus.

[drengnikrafe]

Based on how that's never suggested, I am left to assume that the bonuses are treated as non-stacking bonuses, in which only the highest would apply. So if you you used a +1 Tome and then a +2 Tome, your bonus would be +2.

EDIT: Ninja. Figures.

[Grumman]

If it was me, I'd say that reading a +1 Tome and then a +2 Tome would give you a +3 bonus. They are priced linearly instead of quadratically anyway, and it avoids the annoying incentive to hold out for a +4 or +5 Tome.

[TheOOB]

Inherent bonuses, like all other named bonuses, do not stack, only the greater bonus applies. Also, inherent bonuses are capped at 5. The Wish spell elaborates on the rules.

[KillianHawkeye]

Yeah, the only named bonuses that stack are Dodge and (occasionally) Circumstance.

[lsfreak]

A good DM, however, should hopefully let you buy a +1 tome, and then pay the difference to increase the bonus to +2, rather than having to buy the whole cost of the +2 and wasting the money you spent on +1.

[TheOOB]

A good DM, however, should hopefully let you buy a +1 tome, and then pay the difference to increase the bonus to +2, rather than having to buy the whole cost of the +2 and wasting the money you spent on +1.

That is certainly a valid houserule, though I don't think a DM is bad if they don't enforce it. The Tomes are just like any other magic item. You can buy a +5 flaming longsword now, or wait until you have more money to purchase a +5 holy flaming longsword. Saving money now helps in the future, same with the manuals and tomes.

And as Hawkeye mentioned, dodge bonuses always stack, and circumstances stack when they come from different circumstances. All other named bonuses do not stack.

[FishAreWet]

That is certainly a valid houserule, though I don't think a DM is bad if they don't enforce it. The Tomes are just like any other magic item. You can buy a +5 flaming longsword now, or wait until you have more money to purchase a +5 holy flaming longsword. Saving money now helps in the future, same with the manuals and tomes.

Except weapon enchantments are quadratic and tomes are linear.

[lsfreak]

That is certainly a valid houserule, though I don't think a DM is bad if they don't enforce it. The Tomes are just like any other magic item. You can buy a +5 flaming longsword now, or wait until you have more money to purchase a +5 holy flaming longsword. Saving money now helps in the future, same with the manuals and tomes.

Except that nothing keeps you from taking that +5 flaming longsword and adding holy to it at a later date. Same with taking your cloak of resistance +1 and making it +2, +3, +4, and +5 once you can afford it. Tomes are one of the only things without rules explicitly laid out for upgrading.

[sonofzeal]

That is certainly a valid houserule, though I don't think a DM is bad if they don't enforce it. The Tomes are just like any other magic item. You can buy a +5 flaming longsword now, or wait until you have more money to purchase a +5 holy flaming longsword. Saving money now helps in the future, same with the manuals and tomes.

And as Hawkeye mentioned, dodge bonuses always stack, and circumstances stack when they come from different circumstances. All other named bonuses do not stack.

Except with swords, you can get them upgraded and pay the difference. Every magic item with a variable bonus works that way, actually. Check your local MIC for details.

[magic9mushroom]

That is certainly a valid houserule, though I don't think a DM is bad if they don't enforce it. The Tomes are just like any other magic item. You can buy a +5 flaming longsword now, or wait until you have more money to purchase a +5 holy flaming longsword. Saving money now helps in the future, same with the manuals and tomes.

And as Hawkeye mentioned, dodge bonuses always stack, and circumstances stack when they come from different circumstances. All other named bonuses do not stack.

Except you can't sell or improve a Tome.

[Xenogears]

Except you can't sell or improve a Tome.

Well it is still a regular book afterwards so you can sell it for the price of a mundane book. With an amazing bluff you might convince an absent-minded nobleman to buy it after you use it....

But then you have a nobleman for an enemy...

[Frosty]

Well it is still a regular book afterwards so you can sell it for the price of a mundane book. With an amazing bluff you might convince an absent-minded nobleman to buy it after you use it....

But then you have a nobleman for an enemy...

If you are at a level where you can get Tomes of ability increase, then the nobleman is not at the top of your list of "People I'm afraid of."

[Xenogears]

If you are at a level where you can get Tomes of ability increase, then the nobleman is not at the top of your list of "People I'm afraid of."

The guild of wizardly assassins (as in wizards who are assassins not assassins who kill wizards) they hire are on the top of that list however.

[Frosty]

The guild of wizardly assassins (as in wizards who are assassins not assassins who kill wizards) they hire are on the top of that list however.

You're a high level caster. Kill/Charm/Dominate/Do whatever to the nobleman beforehand. Heck, why are you selling stuff to him anyways? Go into his house and loot his vault.

[Xenogears]

You're a high level caster. Kill/Charm/Dominate/Do whatever to the nobleman beforehand. Heck, why are you selling stuff to him anyways? Go into his house and loot his vault.

What part of "awesome bluff check" says I'm a caster?

[Frosty]

What part of "awesome bluff check" says I'm a caster?

Sorcerer or Beguiler or Bard or Warlock?

Also, lotsa classes with awesome bluff abilities also have awesome Disguise abilities.

[Xenogears]

Sorcerer or Beguiler or Bard or Warlock?

Also, lotsa classes with awesome bluff abilities also have awesome Disguise abilities.

Well I know a lot of caster-classes can have high bluff scores but so can a lot of mundane classes. Also even if you kill/charm/dominate etc. the noble whose to say his uncle doesn't get pissed?

[magic9mushroom]

Well it is still a regular book afterwards so you can sell it for the price of a mundane book. With an amazing bluff you might convince an absent-minded nobleman to buy it after you use it....

But then you have a nobleman for an enemy...

It doesn't change the fact that you cannot legitimately sell Tomes and recoup a large portion of your investment like you can a Cloak of Charisma.

[ericgrau]

Ah, but that's part of the invisible cost of the +1 to +4 tomes. Sure, you'll save money in the long run if you wait, but the lesser tomes let you be more powerful now. Allowing tomes to stack (up to +5 max total) is fine as a houserule, but warning your players that they might want to wait is also fair. And be aware that if you let them stack you are in fact giving PCs free money in the form of early power.

[Tequila Sunrise]

This is why I ban inherent bonuses. +10 ability enhancers instead!

/non sequitur

[faceroll]

Tomes are exceptionally powerful items, as they offer a unique and permanent way to boost scores in the game that, after character creation, are hard to change. Their pricing structure isn't surprising.