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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Sneak Attack +20d6

    Is there a 20-level build that gets SA+20d6? Just a random thought. There's Rogue1/Wilderness Rogue1/Sneak Attack Fighter1/Spellthief1/?
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    /assassin 1.
    I don't know if it's possible, but I figured I would help with the suggestion of a SA advancing prestige class.

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by Tao the Ninja View Post
    Is there a 20-level build that gets SA+20d6? Just a random thought. There's Rogue1/Wilderness Rogue1/Sneak Attack Fighter1/Spellthief1/?
    ...probably, if you also allow for SA-boosting items and spells.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    You can get more then triple that.

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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    A human Factotum 20 with 30 Int and two flaws and ten instances of Font of Inspiration has 65 inspiration, which can all be blown on a single attack for 65d6 Sneak Attack damage.

    Otherwise? Such a build probably isn't too hard. It'd probably involve Assassin's Stance and Hunter's Eye with a lot of casting PrCs that progress Sneak Attack damage. Spellthief shenanigans could get you a crazy-high caster level to let you get all of that through Hunter's Eye.
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    IIRC PlzbrkmyCampg (sorry If I misspell) did a 20 lvl build that top'd that
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    My level 1 zombie commoner will beat you



    (ok, maybe not)

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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by BenTheJester View Post
    My level 1 zombie commoner will beat you



    (ok, maybe not)
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    Truedeath crystal or Penetrating Strike ACF from dungeonscape
    or UMD a scroll/wand of grave strike
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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by Tao the Ninja View Post
    Is there a 20-level build that gets SA+20d6? Just a random thought. There's Rogue1/Wilderness Rogue1/Sneak Attack Fighter1/Spellthief1/?
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Rogue 2/Swash buckler 2/Wild rogue 2/ Sneak attack fighter 2/ Spell thief 2/Sword sage 2/ Blood line 3/Bloodline 2/ X 3

    Daring outlaw and Assassin stance gets you alot
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by Viletta Vadim View Post
    A human Factotum 20 with 30 Int and two flaws and ten instances of Font of Inspiration has 65 inspiration, which can all be blown on a single attack for 65d6 Sneak Attack damage.

    Otherwise? Such a build probably isn't too hard. It'd probably involve Assassin's Stance and Hunter's Eye with a lot of casting PrCs that progress Sneak Attack damage. Spellthief shenanigans could get you a crazy-high caster level to let you get all of that through Hunter's Eye.
    The ability doesn't say extra points give extra sneak attack. What makes you think they do?
    Last edited by Myou; 2010-02-18 at 07:39 PM.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    From Eldariel, in a post 2 or three weeks ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel
    Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 7/Arcane Trickster 8. +8d6 base dice.

    Feats:
    Extend Spell
    Persistent Spell
    Martial Study: Cloak of Deception
    Martial Stance: Assassin's Stance
    Arcane Disciple: War
    Metamagic School Focus: Evocation
    Practiced Spellcaster

    Trait:
    Spellgifted: Divination.

    Caster Level Boosting:
    UMD Beads of Karma +4
    Orange Prism Ioun Stone +1
    Ring of Arcane Might +1
    Robe of Arcane Might +1 Competence
    Magical Tattoo +1
    Band of Spell Enhancement +2
    Adept Spirit +1 Insight
    Spell Enhancer +2

    This gives you a total of CL 36 for Hunter's Eye. Then you, using normal slots, persist:
    Divine Power (with help from Metamagic School Focus)
    Hunter's Eye
    Sniper's Shot
    Guided Shot
    Golemstrike/Vinestrike/Gravestrike

    No range limit on SAs, able to hit targets with Concealment with SA, etc. Hunter's Eye gives you +1d6 SA per 3 caster levels, so CL 36 means you get +12d6 SA giving you +20d6 SA total. +22d6 with Assassin's Stance. Divine Power means you have full BAB.


    Better caster can beat this rather easily (I didn't, for example, use Shapechange into that one creature with inherent ~+7d6 SA nor did I really optimize the Caster Level; Divine does that better as do tricks), but this is a decent baseline. I also didn't bind anything nor did I use soulmelds. All of those add more too.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by Tao the Ninja View Post
    There's Rogue1/Wilderness Rogue1
    Can't have both.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by Myou View Post
    The ability doesn't say extra points give extra sneak attack. What makes you think they do?
    It's untyped damage without any restriction on how many times you can use it. All the other Factotum abilities are quite pointed; Cunning Insight is a non-stacking insight bonus. Cunning Knowledge is once per day per skill. Cunning Defense specifies that it works once per opponent. Cunning Strike? No such constraints. And, it makes sense in making the ability not suck. 1d6 sneak attack is pretty much irrelevant at all levels, after all.

    Spend a point, get 1d6 sneak attack. Spend a point and spend a point, get 1d6 and 1d6. Spend a point sixty times, get 1d6 sixty times, and it all stacks. There's no associated action type or limit on use, so the question becomes, why couldn't you? After all, if you just blew ten feats and twenty levels on getting 65 inspiration, you deserve that 65d6 sneak attack damage, particularly considering it'd leave you useless for the rest of the fight and it's wasted if it misses.
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by Viletta Vadim View Post
    It's untyped damage without any restriction on how many times you can use it.
    ..
    Spend a point, get 1d6 sneak attack. Spend a point and spend a point, get 1d6 and 1d6.
    You're forgetting the most basic rule here: stacking.
    Stacking

    In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different types (or no type at all), but do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession).
    It's the same source: Cunning Strike. Spend all the inspiration points you want, but they never give you more than 1d6 sneak attack.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by Viletta Vadim View Post
    It's untyped damage without any restriction on how many times you can use it. All the other Factotum abilities are quite pointed; Cunning Insight is a non-stacking insight bonus. Cunning Knowledge is once per day per skill. Cunning Defense specifies that it works once per opponent. Cunning Strike? No such constraints. And, it makes sense in making the ability not suck. 1d6 sneak attack is pretty much irrelevant at all levels, after all.

    Spend a point, get 1d6 sneak attack. Spend a point and spend a point, get 1d6 and 1d6. Spend a point sixty times, get 1d6 sixty times, and it all stacks. There's no associated action type or limit on use, so the question becomes, why couldn't you? After all, if you just blew ten feats and twenty levels on getting 65 inspiration, you deserve that 65d6 sneak attack damage, particularly considering it'd leave you useless for the rest of the fight and it's wasted if it misses.
    It's not untyped, it's sneak attack damage, not that that's relevant. Abilities like this only stack if stated to do so. If it could be expanded on it would ay that for each extra inpiration point spent beyond the first, you gain an additional 1d6 sneak attack damage.

    Anyway, you could read it either way. I'd let it stack in a game, but by RAW I don't think it does.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    You're forgetting the most basic rule here: stacking. It's the same source: Cunning Strike. Spend all the inspiration points you want, but they never give you more than 1d6 sneak attack.
    But it's not a modifier to a roll; it's an untyped damage source.

    If you do manage to get +20d6 Base SA damage from classes alone, you'd have, in all probability, 0 Base Attack Bonus (Perhaps +1 if you take SA fighter).
    Last edited by Wreckingrocc; 2010-02-19 at 04:34 PM.
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by Myou View Post
    I'd let it stack in a game, but by RAW I don't think it does.
    QFT. By RAW it probably doesn't stack. By RAI I'm pretty sure it does, and I think it's a silly houserule not to implement.
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    IIRC PlzbrkmyCampg (sorry If I misspell) did a 20 lvl build that top'd that
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    Last edited by PlzBreakMyCmpAn; 2010-02-19 at 04:44 PM.

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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by PlzBreakMyCmpAn View Post
    Regarding the max SA build, it's worth noting that Consumptive Field doesn't stack with itself and thus effectively caps out at twice your standard CL after repeated castings, which in turn makes it relevant for scientific curiosity to see how far Hunter's Eye-abuse gets one.
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by Tired N' Drowzy View Post
    But it's not a modifier to a roll; it's an untyped damage source.

    If you do manage to get +20d6 Base SA damage from classes alone, you'd have, in all probability, 0 Base Attack Bonus (Perhaps +1 if you take SA fighter).
    Either insist on fractional BAB or dip Pyro for infinite touch attacks.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by Tao the Ninja View Post
    Is there a 20-level build that gets SA+20d6? Just a random thought. There's Rogue1/Wilderness Rogue1
    Why not just go Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1?

    Multiclassing XP will kill ya with this build though.

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    Flickerdart's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by DementedFellow View Post
    Why not just go Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1/Rogue1?

    Multiclassing XP will kill ya with this build though.
    a) You don't get the XP penalty unless your multiclasses are levels apart from one another
    a1) If your favoured class was Rogue, you wouldn't have to worry about it
    b) You can't multiclass into a class you already have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    a) You don't get the XP penalty unless your multiclasses are levels apart from one another
    a1) If your favoured class was Rogue, you wouldn't have to worry about it
    b) You can't multiclass into a class you already have.
    I was joking. It wasn't a terribly funny joke, but an attempt at humor nonetheleess.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Yeah, due to the fact that Consumptive Field can't actually get that high, the best sneak attack you can get in 20 levels is probably Human Rogue 16/Factotum 4 with two flaws, spending all your feats (including the Rogue bonus ones) on Fonts of Inspiration. Then use inspiration points to get triple digit sneak attack once per encounter.

    You can UMD Hunter's Eye for a little more.

    JaronK

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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by JaronK View Post
    Yeah, due to the fact that Consumptive Field can't actually get that high, the best sneak attack you can get in 20 levels is probably Human Rogue 16/Factotum 4 with two flaws, spending all your feats (including the Rogue bonus ones) on Fonts of Inspiration. Then use inspiration points to get triple digit sneak attack once per encounter.

    You can UMD Hunter's Eye for a little more.

    JaronK
    Hm, well, it still doubles your CL. I think you could get at least CL 90 with some work, without looping anything. That's already +30d6 to your SA. After that, your levels can still grant you ~+10d6, and various other sources are ~20-30. You should be able to get +60d6-+70d6, which is respectable, at least.
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by Tired N' Drowzy View Post
    But it's not a modifier to a roll; it's an untyped damage source.
    It's a modifier to your damage roll.
    Damage Rolls

    If the attack roll result equals or exceeds the targetís AC, the attack hits and you deal damage. Roll the appropriate damage for your weapon. Damage is deducted from the targetís current hit points.
    Last edited by Curmudgeon; 2010-02-19 at 05:52 PM.

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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Hm, well, it still doubles your CL. I think you could get at least CL 90 with some work, without looping anything. That's already +30d6 to your SA. After that, your levels can still grant you ~+10d6, and various other sources are ~20-30. You should be able to get +60d6-+70d6, which is respectable, at least.
    Yeah, but that's not going to beat the Factotum, who easily hits triple digits without all those rats dying.

    JaronK

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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack +20d6

    Quote Originally Posted by JaronK View Post
    Yeah, but that's not going to beat the Factotum, who easily hits triple digits without all those rats dying.

    JaronK
    True enough. If we compare the composite SA output rather than the nova capability though, I do think casting edges out.
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