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  1. - Top - End - #481
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Mystic Muse's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    No. I just don't see much sense on the dragon being able to pick the element he's tied to.
    No, I mean he can choose either the resistances or cold immunity. To me it just makes more sense for them to be immune to cold.

    Hmm, what books are they in again?
    Dragons of eberron around page 30 I believe.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-05-28 at 04:11 PM.
    Avatar by the wonderful BeckyPages. My OC Curtain Call.

    My Twitter account, where I will mainly post images of minis I've painted.

  2. - Top - End - #482
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    This looks excellent. Seriously, if you can't feel my joy, you must have somehow missed my gloom avatar, who is thrilled as hell at the prospect of becoming an actual PC.

    A couple of questions though. If they seem stupid, forgive me, I know enough rules to DM for my fellow Real Roleplayer types provided I've got the SRD to consult, but I admit to some unfamiliarity with the minutia surrounding the rules for nonstandard attacks. If it comes up in one of my games I can look it up, but that's not an option for homebrew stuff, sadly.

    What is the deal with these monster classes and iterative attacks? Do monsters who use manufactured weapons get them and monsters who use natural weapons not? Are all/most monsters shackled by their natural weapons to an attack per round? Do all monsters now attack like PCs? I ask because the marilith attacked six times per round in the Monster Manual, but people here seem to have referenced various other monsters losing attacks compared to standard classes.

    Would a feat like this be balanced, assuming I was stuck on one primary attack per turn and wanted another? I'm not seeing any major exploits as a result, but my munchkin-fu is weak.

    Extra Attack:

    When making a full attack, you gain a single extra attack with one of your weapons, natural or otherwise. This attack occurs immediately after your normal attacks with that weapon and its attack bonus is that of the attack immediately before it minus 5 (as if it were an ordinary iterative attack).

    Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time adds another attack, but the minus 5 penalty still applies (yes, a character wielding two or more weapons can split the attacks between them and only take -5 to the second extra attack, rather than taking -5 on one weapon's extra attack and -10 on another). This feat may be taken as a fighter bonus feat.

    ...I was actually considering waiving the penalties past -5, as suggested in Races of War (I think it was Races of War anyway; something by Frank and K at least) but I think if I were to do that I should do it across the board for everything that attacks, and I wanted this to be compatible with the standard rule set as much as possible.

  3. - Top - End - #483
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    AustontheGreat1's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    5/28/2010
    Adjusted the ability so that the beholder can fire all 10 but only 3 in any 90 degree arc like is appropriate. Need a better name than "Omni-gaze". Suggestions would be awesome. Schools out so I have some free time now to work on this, but I'm a simpleton so you'll all have to point me in the right direction.
    Last edited by AustontheGreat1; 2010-05-28 at 05:37 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #484

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by CN the Logos View Post
    This looks excellent. Seriously, if you can't feel my joy, you must have somehow missed my gloom avatar, who is thrilled as hell at the prospect of becoming an actual PC.
    Well always great to see another satisfied customer!

    Quote Originally Posted by CN the Logos View Post
    A couple of questions though. If they seem stupid, forgive me, I know enough rules to DM for my fellow Real Roleplayer types provided I've got the SRD to consult, but I admit to some unfamiliarity with the minutia surrounding the rules for nonstandard attacks. If it comes up in one of my games I can look it up, but that's not an option for homebrew stuff, sadly.

    What is the deal with these monster classes and iterative attacks? Do monsters who use manufactured weapons get them and monsters who use natural weapons not? Are all/most monsters shackled by their natural weapons to an attack per round? Do all monsters now attack like PCs? I ask because the marilith attacked six times per round in the Monster Manual, but people here seem to have referenced various other monsters losing attacks compared to standard classes.
    My monsters work with the standard natural weapon rules. Aka just one attack per natural weapon no matter how much Bab you have. The marilith attacks 6 times because it has 6 arms.

    Mind you there's several ways to bypass that. Either use manufactured weapons with your limbs or Lords of Madness provides the mouthpick weapon wich can be wielded by your mouth and deliver iterative attacks.

    Plus, when you have 3 natural attacks, attacking with everything at -2 penalty on the secondary attacks with just a feat is just as good as 4 iterative attacks in my opinions. If you have more than 3 nat attacks it gets better.


    Quote Originally Posted by CN the Logos View Post
    Would a feat like this be balanced, assuming I was stuck on one primary attack per turn and wanted another? I'm not seeing any major exploits as a result, but my munchkin-fu is weak.

    Extra Attack:

    When making a full attack, you gain a single extra attack with one of your weapons, natural or otherwise. This attack occurs immediately after your normal attacks with that weapon and its attack bonus is that of the attack immediately before it minus 5 (as if it were an ordinary iterative attack).

    Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time adds another attack, but the minus 5 penalty still applies (yes, a character wielding two or more weapons can split the attacks between them and only take -5 to the second extra attack, rather than taking -5 on one weapon's extra attack and -10 on another). This feat may be taken as a fighter bonus feat.
    I must say that looks kinda confusing to me. Or perhaps it's just me half-asleep by now.

    Quote Originally Posted by CN the Logos View Post
    ...I was actually considering waiving the penalties past -5, as suggested in Races of War (I think it was Races of War anyway; something by Frank and K at least) but I think if I were to do that I should do it across the board for everything that attacks, and I wanted this to be compatible with the standard rule set as much as possible.
    Frank and K have a taste for very high powered games. -5 cumulative penalties is fine on a regular game as it's quite easy to get very high attack bonus to make sure you hit even with a -10, and then you can do touch attacks like disarm and trip with your last -15 attack.

  5. - Top - End - #485
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    Well always great to see another satisfied customer!


    My monsters work with the standard natural weapon rules. Aka just one attack per natural weapon no matter how much Bab you have. The marilith attacks 6 times because it has 6 arms.

    Mind you there's several ways to bypass that. Either use manufactured weapons with your limbs or Lords of Madness provides the mouthpick weapon wich can be wielded by your mouth and deliver iterative attacks.
    Okay, but glooms, balors, etc... do get iterative attacks because they use weapons, yes? That's what I thought, but I wanted to be sure I was understanding it correctly.

    Plus, when you have 3 natural attacks, attacking with everything at -2 penalty on the secondary attacks with just a feat is just as good as 4 iterative attacks in my opinions. If you have more than 3 nat attacks it gets better.
    This is true.

    I must say that looks kinda confusing to me. Or perhaps it's just me half-asleep by now.
    Eh, the idea was just to add another attack to the character's full attack using the same rules as iterative attacks for ordinary PCs. So something with a +6 BAB with a weapon or natural attack now has two attacks with that weapon/natural attack, and the BAB for them would be +6/+1. It was just me brainstorming a bit, in the unlikely chance I ever wanted to be a melee character without opposable thumbs. It's probably confusing because I was trying to cover any way in which it could break the game in half, and the cold I've got has me too out of it to do so concisely on the first try.

    ...That's a bit of a cop out, I guess, but it's a quasi-legitimate excuse and I'm sticking to it.

    Frank and K have a taste for very high powered games. -5 cumulative penalties is fine on a regular game as it's quite easy to get very high attack bonus to make sure you hit even with a -10, and then you can do touch attacks like disarm and trip with your last -15 attack.
    Yeah, like I said, it's a house rule I was thinking of adopting, but to clarify, if I did decide to use it, it'd only be for a particular campaign I've thought about where physical combat would get a lot of focus and the "mundane" classes might need a boost in that area. Low magic pulp horror where magic items are hard to come by and full casters are laboring under some sort of restriction, something like that.

    ...Now to find a campaign for a gloom/swiftblade gestalt. Maybe a gloom/binder or gloom/warblade. I haven't decided quite yet, gotta figure out the best way to bring the pain while sticking with the whole shadowy, semi-lovecraftian slasher theme.

  6. - Top - End - #486
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Draken's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    EDIT:Woot firbolg!
    You should commemorate by making the Firbolg class.

    Also, working on a really unusual beast. The Angel of Decay. CR 15, almost no actual powers (just one real gimmick), so I had to pump not few Spell-like abilities into the thing.
    Last edited by Draken; 2010-05-28 at 11:49 PM.
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    Homebrewing

  7. - Top - End - #487
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    Aranii:Hmm, looks much better now, but you left a typo on the score increases(granting +2 dex at 3rd and 5th level). Also I must point out that few races gives +2 to two stats with a single penalty. Also image or else I'll have to copy-pasta your work.
    I'll fix the typo. And the reason that I left in the +2 bonuses at first level is because no race only gets a +1 bonus at first level. And considering that taking pixie 1 is basically like taking a +1 LA race, which doesn't increase casting, and puts some penalties on it; considering that, I think that +2 to two abilities and -2 to one is perfectly justified.

    Also, go ahead and copy and paste. I don't mind at all. Though I do plan on working out that pixie paragon class today, so you might want to wait to copy and paste it until you look that paragon over.

  8. - Top - End - #488
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    demidracolich's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Also, working on a really unusual beast. The Angel of Decay. CR 15, almost no actual powers (just one real gimmick), so I had to pump not few Spell-like abilities into the thing.
    Hooray! More undead!
    Really really really awesome avatar thanks to neoseph7

  9. - Top - End - #489

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Firbolg

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    HD:d8
    {TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
    1 | +0 | +2|+0 |+0|Firbolg body, Wilderness initiate.
    2| +1| +3|+0 |+0 | Powerfull build, Str+1, Con+1
    3| +2| +3|+1| +1| Wilderness link, Str+1, Con+1
    4| +3| +4| +1|+1 | Growth, Str+1, Con+1
    5| +3| +4| +1| +1| Wilderness adept, Str+1, Con+1
    6| +4|+4|+2|+2|Fast Healing, Str+1, Con+1
    7| +5|+4|+2|+2|Throw Rock, Smart Catch, str+1, con+1
    8| +6|+5|+2|+2|Trample, Wilderness Specialist, Str+1, Con+1
    9| +6|+5|+3|+3|Wilderness companion, Str+1, Con+1
    10|+7|+6|+3|+3|Wilderness Master, Str+1, Con+1
    11|+8|+6|+3|+3|Eternal Watcher, Str +1, Con+1
    12|+9|+7|+4|+4|Wilderness Lord, Str+1, Con+1

    [/TABLE]
    Skills: 4+int modifier per level, quadruple at first level. Class skills are Climb, Jump, Listen, swim, handle animal, knowledge(nature, dungeonoring), diplomacy, bluff, hide, move silently, craft(any), profession(any), swim, and Spot

    Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons and light armor.

    Features:
    Firbolg body: the Firbolg loses all other racial bonuses, and gains giant traits (Mainly low light vision), a base speed of 30 foot and a +1 racial bonus on thrown rocks. Lastly, he gains natural armor equal to his Con bonus.

    Wilderness initiate:
    The firbolg have a deep connection with nature wich grants them natural magic powers. This grants him some SLAs he may choose to use as swift actions a certain number of times per day. Save DCs are 10+1/2HD+Wis modifier.

    At 1st level the available SLAs are ghost sound, silent image and detect magic 2/day for each HD. He can also choose to keep concentration of the silent image with a swift action.

    In adition, if the firbolg multiclasses into a casting class, he can choose to count his firbolg levels for purposes of CL and learning new spells and gaining new spell slots. Firbolg levels don't count for any other class ability.

    So for example a firbolg 2/druid 1 he could choose to gain one 2nd level spell slot instead of one 1st level spell slots and three zero level slots.


    Ability score increase: a Firbolg gains +1 Str and +1 Con for each level in this class except the first.

    Powerful Build: At first level, a Firbolg gains Powerful Build. The physical stature of firbolgs lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever the Giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the firbolg is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A firbolg is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A firbolg can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

    Wilderness link:
    The firbolg can now use alter self, know direction and ventricolism 1/day as a swift action for each HD it has.


    Growth: At fourth level, the Firbolg finishes growing to large size but loses Powerful Build. His base movement speed increases by 10' (This movement boost occurs again at 16HD and 22HD, as the giant increases in size again).

    Firbolgs keep growing as they age, altough the oldest individuals normaly retreat into specially secluded areas are thus rarely seen.

    At 8HD, the Firbolg reacquires Powerful Build, granting partial benefits of Huge size.
    At 12HD, the Firbolg grows to Huge size and loses Powerful Build.
    At 16HD, the Firbolg reacquires Powerful Build, granting partial benefits of Gargantuan size.
    At 20HD, the Firbolg grows to Gargantuan size and loses Powerful Build.



    Wilderness adept:The firbolg can now use displacement, major image and whispering wind as SLAs 1/day for each 2HD it has.


    Fast healig:
    Equal to 1/2 of the HD of the firbolg, rounded down.

    Throw Rock: The Firbolg may begin throwing boulders or other large objects. A firbolg of at least Large size can hurl rocks weighing 40 to 50 pounds each (Small objects) up to 600 feet. A Huge Firbolg can hurl rocks of 60 to 80 pounds (Medium objects). A Gargantuan firbolg can hurl rocks of 90 to 120 pounds (large objects). Inanimate objects of similar size and heft may be substituted, but you lose the racial bonus to attack rolls and have half the range.

    Smart Catch: A firbolg that would normally be hit by any projectile (not only rocks) can make a Reflex save to catch it as a free action. The DC is 15 for a Small projectile, 20 for a Medium one, and 25 for a Large one. (If the projectile provides a magical bonus on attack rolls, the DC increases by that amount.) The firbolg must be ready for and aware of the attack in order to make a smart catching attempt.

    Trample: The Firbolg can move up to twice his speed and literally run over any opponents at least one size category smaller than itself. The Firbolg merely has to move over the opponents in its path; any creature whose space is completely covered by the Firbolg's space is subject to the trample attack. If a target’s space is larger than 5 feet, it is only considered trampled if the Giant moves over all the squares it occupies.

    A trample attack deals bludgeoning damage (2d6 damage + 1½ times its Str modifier, increase the die size if the firbolg also increases his size).

    Trampled opponents can attempt attacks of opportunity, but these take a -4 penalty. If they do not make attacks of opportunity, trampled opponents can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage.

    The save DC against the firbolg’s trample attack is 10 + ½ creature’s HD + firbolg’s Str modifier. The firbolg can only deal trampling damage to each target once per round, no matter how many times its movement takes it over a target creature.

    Wilderness Specialist:
    The firbolg can now use Hallucinatory terrain, Shaddow conjuration and reduce person as SLAs 1/day for each 4HD it has. In adition, his reduce person SLA can affect any creature, not just humanoids.

    Wilderness companion:
    As the druid ability, except that the firbolg may replace it with a 10min ritual and it gains a bonus to AC, attack and damage rolls and saves equal to the Firbolg's Wis modifier. The firbolg is still expected to treat his animal companion with respect, and if he willingly sends it to his death (like ordering him to pass trough a traped tunnel or sacrificing it for some ritual), the firbolg must receive an atonement spell before being able to summon a new animal companion. Death in combat is considered honorable as long as the firbolg fighted at his animal companion's side. Druid levels stack with this ability.

    Wildernss Master:The Firbolg can now use feeblemind, persistent image and shaddow evocation as SLAs 1/day for each 4HD it has.

    Eternal Watcher:
    The firbolg gains an extra swift action per turn and may catch any number of projectiles per turn with his Smart Catch ability, altough each projectile beyond the first has his DC increased by +2, cumulative.


    Wilderness Lord:
    The firbolg can now use animal growth, mislead and veil as SLAs 1/day for each 4 HD it has.



    Comments:
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    The firbolg is a more obscure giant, wich curiously fits right on with their fluff of being giants who like to live in isolation and keep contact with other races and species at minimum.

    They're suposed to at the same time having a deep connection with nature and a big love for trickery, thus all the wilderness magic stuff. Do notice he can use ALL his class SLAs as swift actions wich allow him to use his tricks while unleashing the pain in melee.

    Kinda running out of ideas for the higher levels so gave him an animal companion since he's pictured with a big badass bear and extra swift action to help using the SLAs.

    He gets solid skills and a whooping +11 to Str and Con, altough he only has one good save and medium Bab. Also no natural slam attack. He does gets a small fast healing.

    The end result is a powerfull gish wich uses a variety of illusion powers to slow down his oponents while either crushing them in melee or at ranged with rocks.

    Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-08-16 at 08:26 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #490
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Draken's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    There is a somewhat large gulf between the speed increases... I mean. You get one at level 16 and then the next one only at level 222?

    Edit: Looks fixed. By the way, it says Hill Giant on the Ability Score increase list.
    Last edited by Draken; 2010-05-29 at 02:06 PM.
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    Homebrewing

  11. - Top - End - #491
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Hyudra's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    I'd rename chuck rock, perhaps. I deliberately chose primitive sounding utterances (ie. Hulk smash! Hulk crush! Hulk chuck rock!) to emphasize the Hill Giant flavor - they're like massive cavemen.

    Also, while I'm procrastinating on it, I was planning on giving other giants different abilities than smash, crush & trample, so the Hill Giant feels distinct. I don't know where the Firbolg is from, but if it doesn't get trample normally, then perhaps something else? It seems as though it has enough druidic background to keep it interesting without adding such.

    But I'm open to suggestions or OP's oversight as far as the design of the giant line goes.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-05-29 at 02:42 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #492

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Also, while I'm procrastinating on it, I was planning on giving other giants different abilities than smash, crush & trample, so the Hill Giant feels distinct. I don't know where the Firbolg is from, but if it doesn't get trample normally, then perhaps something else? It seems as though it has enough druidic background to keep it interesting without adding such.
    It has trample at 8th level on my class as well on the MM II entry from where it came. Mind you the original monster isn't that hot since like all giants the normal version barely has abilities.

    Also, well, trample is kinda of an iconic giant ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    But I'm open to suggestions or OP's oversight as far as the design of the giant line goes.
    Giants should have powers related to their theme (fire, earth, wind, water, heart, by your powers combined I'm captain giant planet!eerr, nevermind the last one).

    But they also should get a touch of GIANT SMASH! on them since giants shouldn't be big for nothing. When you see a giant, regardless of it's race, you should fear he can literally run over you!

  13. - Top - End - #493
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    The pixie paragon is done. Please evaluate, and if everything looks fine, go ahead and copy and paste the class.

    The class is here.

  14. - Top - End - #494
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Stone Giant

    Monster Class
    Monster Manual/SRD

    Class:
    Spoiler
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    HD: D8

    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|
    Special

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Stone Giant Body, Powerful Build, Str+1, Con+1

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Fling, Incredible Stride, Str+1, Con+1

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Inexorable Momentum, Str+1, Con+1

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Growth, Throw Boulder, Catch, Str+1, Con+1

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Trample, Stone Heart, Str+1, Con+1

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Imposing, Str+1, Con+1

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Stony Grip, Indomitable, Str+1, Con+1

    8th|
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Waylay, Str+1, Con+1[/table]

    Skills Points: (2+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
    Class Skills: The Stone Giant’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Handle Animal (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis).

    Proficiencies: The Stone Giant gains proficiency with all simple and marital weapons and with light and medium armor.

    Stone Giant Body: The Stone Giant loses all other racial bonuses and gains Giant traits, granting it Darkvision 60'. Stone Giants are initially Medium sized creatures with a base movement speed of 30', possessing two slam attacks that deal 1d4 + Str mod damage each and natural armor equal to their Con mod. The Stone Giant gains a racial bonus to hide in any terrain featuring a predominance of rock, but only if the rock is natural or rough hewn.

    Stone Giants have Giant and Common as starting languages, with additional languages for a high intelligence score as normal.

    Attribute Bonus: The Stone Giant gains +1 to Strength and +1 to Constitution with every level in the class, for a total bonus of +8 Str and +8 Con at eighth level.

    Powerful Build: At first level, a Stone Giant gains Powerful Build, representing the disproportionate amount of strength that he can bring to bear. The physical stature of Giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever the Giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the Giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A Giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A Giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

    Fling: At third level, the Stone Giant may leverage his great strength to toss his opponents about like rag dolls, a tactic favored by those mountain dwelling giants who can send foes flying off the mountainside and into the open air. To fling an opponent, the Giant must first grab them, using the first three stages of a standard grapple (He takes an attack of opportunity, makes a melee touch attack, and makes an opposed grapple check). Feats, spells and magic items that benefit grapples serve to aid this stage of the Fling, as appropriate.

    If successful in grabbing the foe, the Stone Giant does standard slam damage and may throw the opponent 10 feet, plus five feet for every 4 points he beat their grapple check result. Thrown foes take 1d6 damage for every 10 feet thrown (or distance they would have be thrown had they not hit something en route), plus twice the Giant's Str mod. If the victim collides with an obstacle or another individual, they stop in an adjacent square and the same amount of damage is dealt to the obstacle or individual in the target square. If there is a vertical drop as a consequence of the fling, the thrown foe and any struck foes suffer the appropriate falling damage.

    Individuals who would be struck by a thrown foe may make a reflex save (DC is 10 + ½ Giant's HD, plus Giant's Str mod) to avoid being struck.

    Incredible Stride: At second level, the Stone Giant draws from his experience traversing the crumbling mountainsides, mossy cave floors and snow covered peaks to step across those threats that lay underfoot. The Stone Giant ignores difficult terrain. Further, if the Stone Giant would have to make a saving throw or skill check as part of a move action (such as stepping through webs, avoiding a pit that opens underfoot or keeping his balance on ice/grease) he may add his Str bonus to the roll.

    Inexorable Momentum: At third level, the Stone Giant moves and strikes with the momentum of a rock slide. He gains a deflection bonus to his armor class equal to his HD when receiving attacks of opportunity. Further, when you make a combat maneuver, a failed attempt does not allow reactive attempts by the opponent (as with the disarm or trip maneuvers).

    Growth: At fourth level, the Stone Giant finishes growing to large size but loses Powerful Build. His reach, grapple modifiers, natural attack damage and skills change accordingly, but he doesn't gain any ability score bonuses or penalties. His base movement speed increases by 10' (This movement boost occurs again at 12HD and 20HD, as the giant increases in size again).

    Stone Giants continue to grow throughout the course of their lives:
    At 8HD, the Stone Giant reacquires Powerful Build, granting partial benefits of Huge size.
    At 12HD, the Stone Giant grows to Huge size and loses Powerful Build.
    At 16HD, the Stone Giant reacquires Powerful Build, granting partial benefits of Gargantuan size.
    At 20HD, the Stone Giant grows to Gargantuan size and loses Powerful Build.

    Throw Boulder: At fourth level, the Hill Giant may begin throwing boulders or other large objects. Boulders are simple weapons that deal 2d6 damage when small, with damage increasing a step with every size category, as normal.

    A giant of at least Large size can hurl rocks weighing 40 to 50 pounds each (Small objects) as thrown weapons with a range increment of 180', with a maximum range of 900'. A Huge giant can hurl rocks of 60 to 80 pounds (Medium objects). A Gargantuan giant can hurl rocks of 90 to 120 pounds (large objects). Inanimate objects of similar size and heft may be substituted, but the Giant loses the racial bonus to attack rolls and has the range increments and maximum range halved in distance.

    Catch: At fourth level, a giant that would normally be hit by a rock can make a Reflex save to catch it as a free action. The DC is 15 for a Small rock, 20 for a Medium one, and 25 for a Large one. (If the projectile provides a magical bonus on attack rolls, the DC increases by that amount.) The giant must be ready for and aware of the attack in order to make a rock catching attempt.


    Trample: At fifth level, as a full-round action, The Giant can move up to twice his speed and literally run over any opponents at least one size category smaller than itself. The Giant merely has to move over the opponents in its path; any creature whose space is completely covered by the Giant’s space is subject to the trample attack. If a target’s space is larger than 5 feet, it is only considered trampled if the Giant moves over all the squares it occupies.

    A trample attack deals bludgeoning damage (the Giant’s slam damage + 1½ times his Str mod).

    Trampled opponents can attempt attacks of opportunity, but these take a -4 penalty. If they do not make attacks of opportunity, trampled opponents can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage.

    The save DC against the Giant’s trample attack is 10 + ½ Giant's HD + Giant’s Str modifier. The Giant can only deal trampling damage to each target once per round, no matter how many times its movement takes it over a target creature.

    Class Feature: At fifth level, the Stone Giant has become one with the craggy peaks. He may influence the stones around him with innate magics. He gains the following SLAs:
    At 5 HD, the Stone Giant can cast Stone Shape once a day for every 3 HD he has.
    At 8 HD, the Stone Giant may cast either Transmute Rock to Mud or Transmute Mud to Rock once a day for every 4 HD he has.
    At 10 HD, the Stone Giant can cast Stone Tell once a day for every 5 HD he has.
    At 15 HD, the Stone Giant can cast Earthquake once a day for every 6 HD he has.
    A Stone Giant who multiclasses into an arcane caster class can count his Stone Giant levels as levels of that class for purposes of Caster level, for the purposes of learning new spells and getting new spell slots. However, he does not retroactively gain spell slots or new spells for caster levels he did not take, nor does he add his Stone Giant level to his character level for the purpose of class features, such as familiars. Stone Giants cast non-SLA earth spells at +1 caster level.

    Imposing: At sixth level, the Stone Giant is truly a presence on the battlefield, towering over many foes. Foes who wish to move into the stone giant's threatened area must make a Will save (DC 10 + ½ Giant's HD + Giant's Cha mod) or be shaken for 1d4 rounds. An opponent smaller than the giant who fails this save must halt their movement outside the giant's threatened area. If this is not possible (such as with flying creatures with poor enough maneuverability that they cannot turn), the foe cannot take further actions and provokes an attack of opportunity from the giant.

    An opponent who is already inside the giant's threatened area has no need to make the save again (unless they leave and re-enter it), but the shaken condition persists indefinitely on foes inside the giant's threatened area (the duration of the shaken condition does not decline until they leave the area).

    Stone Grip: At seventh level, the Stone Giant is more secure in grabbing and throwing his foes. He ignores any freedom of movement effects and enemies cannot make escape artist checks to slip out of his grasp - only raw strength will do. Further, he may now elect to either throw foes three times the distance (30 feet plus 15 feet for every 4 points he beat the check result, dealing the listed damage for every 30 feet thrown) or twice as hard (2d6 damage + 4x the Giant's Str bonus for every 10 feet thrown).

    Indomitable: At seventh level, the Stone Giant can no longer be flanked by foes smaller than it.

    Waylay: At eighth level, the Stone Giant can thrust his hand through a surface to grab an opponent on the other side. The Stone Giant must make a Strength check, beating the hardness of whatever cover the opponent has. If he succeeds, and the opponent is both adjacent to the cover and within the Stone Giant's reach, he may make a touch attack to initiate a grapple, pulling the opponent into his space if he suceeds, segueing into a Fling attack if he so wishes.

    Furthermore, opponents only get half the benefit for concealment against the Stone Giant (this applies to the touch attack to initiate the grapple, above).


    Comments
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    With the Stone Giant, I chose to emphasize different aspects of fighting a Giant. In this case, those areas that overlap with the element of stone and the mountains - reliable, nigh unstoppable, intimidating. Where the Hill Giant is really good at smashing face, the Stone Giant is a real presence on the battlefield. When a giant charges at you, there's not a lot you can do about it. When a giant reaches down to pick you up, your first thought isn't going to be "I'm going to stab him!", it's going to be "How badly is he going to hurt me?"

    In terms of raw physical power, the Stone Giant isn't quite as good as the Hill Giant, but he gets SLAs (drawn from the details on stone giant elders, with embellishment) and a few minor boosts in terms of hiding, rock throwing and maneuvers. I think this fits, since the stone giant is described as a little more playful and reticent, favoring long range rock throws over up close confrontation, and choosing ambush and cunning over raw brutality.

    I'm keen on feedback for this, because I want to be sure I delivered on the feel I was aiming to convey. Also, anyone with a better pic to contribute is encouraged to do so.


    Changelog
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    Changes, May 29, 2010:
    • Still tidying up wording in fling (re: appropriate falling damage).
    • Tidied up wording under Imposing, re: what happens when a creature can't avoid moving into the giant's reach.
    • Further tidying up of wording in Fling.
    • Tentatively increased fling throw distance to '+5 feet for every four points you beat the check by' (from every three points), because D&D likes even numbers.
    • Clarified on falling damage in Fling.
    • Tidied up writing in 'stone giant body'.
    • Tidied up writing in fling.
    • Simplified fling, gave it a leg up in damage.
    • Noted that the HD-to-AC is a deflection bonus.
    • Stone giants now get darkvision.

    Changes, June 18th, 2010:
    • Added seventh and eighth levels, with Stone Grip, Indomitable and Stonecanny abilities.

    Changes, March 2nd, 2011:
    • Replaced old image, as the previous image was scanned poorly and had the vague shadows of text from the opposite page showing through it.
    • Fling and Inexorable Momentum changed places, for more active ability & fun earlier on.
    • Wording changed throughout, format altered to meet current standards.
    • Removed Stonecanny, which gave the ability to hide in plain sight in stony areas, and gave the Stone Giant the ability to initiate grapples through walls/cover.
    • Gave the giant more skills that fit.
    • Changelog fixed from ugly & inverse-order jumble of text to the tidy list you see here.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-03-08 at 01:29 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Be in terror and awe! Behold the...

    Angel of Decay
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    HD: d12
    {table=head]
    Level
    |
    BAB
    |
    Fort
    |
    Ref
    |
    Will
    |Features
    1|+0|+0|+0|+2|Dead Angel, Rotting Touch
    2|+1|+0|+0|+3|Unholy Grace, Str +1, Cha +1
    3|+1| +1| +1| +3| Fallen Orisons, Str +1, Wis +1
    4|+2| +1| +1| +4| Rotting Aura, Str +1
    5|+2| +1| +1| +4| Profane Resilience, Str +1, Cha +1
    6|+3| +2| +2| +5| Fallen Initiate, Str +1, Wis +1
    7|+3| +2| +2| +5| Wings, Str +1
    8|+4| +2| +2| +6| Size Increase, Str +1, Cha +1
    9|+4| +3| +3| +6| Profane Presence, Str +1, Wis +1
    10|+5| +3| +3| +7| Fallen Adept, Str +1
    11|+5| +3| +3| +7| Str +1, Cha +1
    12|+6/+1 |+4| +4| +8| Str +1, Wis +1
    13|+6/+1 |+4| +4| +8| Unhallowed Presence, Str +1
    14|+7/+2 |+4| +4| +9| Fallen Magus, Str +1, Cha +1
    15|+7/+2 |+5| +5| +9| Damned Magic, Str +1, Wis +1[/table]
    Class Skills (2+ Int Modifier): None.

    Proficiencies: An angel of decay is proficient with his natural weapons only.

    Dead Angel: The angel of decay loses all racial modifiers and receives the following:
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    • Type: Undead.
    • Land speed: 30 feet.
    • Size: Medium.
    • Natural attacks: Two claws dealing 1d6 + strength modifier damage.
    • Wings: The angel of decay has undeveloped wings on his back, which cannot be used to hover or fly, but reduce the damage of any fall by 2d6, to a minimum of no dice of damage dealt.


    The angel of decay has all the characteristics of the undead type, which includes:
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    • No Constitution score.
    • Darkvision out to 60 feet.
    • Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
    • Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
    • Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
    • Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.
    • Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
    • Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.
    • Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.
    • Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
    • Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
    • Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
    • Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.


    Lastly, all past and future HD the Angel of Decay might receive from class levels become 12-sized die, and he gains natural armor bonus equal to his wisdom modifier. This natural armor bonus increases by 1 when the angel's size increases.

    Rotting Touch (Su): Whenever the Angel of Decay hits a corporeal opponent with both claws, he rots the victim’s flesh dealing 1d6 extra damage, +1 for every 3 HD the angel of decay has. In addition, the angel heals a number of hit points equal to the damage dealt, up to his maximum normal hit points.

    Once per day per HD, the Angel of decay can perform a touch attack, this attack deals damage equal to twice the normal damage of the rotting touch.

    Ability Score Increases: At every level except 1th, the angel of decay’s strength increases by 1. At levels 2, 5, 8, 11 and 14, his charisma increases by 1. At levels 3, 6,9 12 and 15, his wisdom increases by 1.

    Unholy Grace (Su): An angel of decay of 2nd level adds his charisma modifier as a bonus on all saving throws and as a deflection bonus to his armor class.

    Fallen Orisons (Sp): At 3rd level the angel of decay gains the power to use a number of spell-like abilities. These spell-like abilities have a caster level equal to his HD and their save DCs, when applicable, are equal to 10 + spell level + wisdom modifier.

    Starting at 3rd level, the angel of decay can use Bane, Inflict Light Wounds, Curse Water , Spectral Hand and Death Watch, each of these spell-like abilities can be used once per day per HD.

    Rotting Aura (Su): When an angel of decay is not flying, rivulets of vile corruption stream from his body, constantly regenerating and renewing a pool of odiferous rot around him.
    The pool of rot is a 5 foot radius spread, which increases to 10 feet at level 8 and 15 feet at level 12. Any corporeal creature standing on the ground over the pool of rot must make a reflex save (DC 10 + half HD + charisma modifier) each round or take 1d6 damage per three HD of the angel of decay. Whenever a creature takes damage from the rotting aura, she must make a will save (same DC) or be sickened for one round. At 15 level, creatures failing their will saves are instead nauseated for 1 round.
    Whenever a creature takes damage from the rotting aura, the angel of decay is healed of a number of hit points equal to the number of die of damage dealt.

    Profane Resilience (Su): Starting at 5th level, the Angel of Decay gains damage reduction equal to half his HD, this damage reduction is defeated by magic and adamantine weapons. He also gains spell resistance equal to 10 + HD + charisma modifier.

    Fallen Initiate (Sp): At 6th level, the angel of decay can use Inflict Moderate Wounds, Darkness, Death Knell and Crushing Despair, each once per day per two HD.

    Wings: At 7th level, the Angel of decay’s wings are fully developed, he can fly with a speed of 50 feet and poor maneuverability. In addition, the angel of decay can perform two wing slams as secondary natural attacks, dealing 1d4 + ½ strength modifier damage each.

    Size Increase: At 8th level the angel of decay’s size increases to large. It is considered a tall creature. The base damage dealt by the claws of the angel of decay increases to 2d6 + strength modifier, instead of the normal increase.

    Profane Presence (Sp): At 9th level, the angel of decay is constantly surrounded by the effect of the Desecrate spell. The angel of decay is considered an altar to an evil deity for the purpose of the spell.

    Fallen Adept (Sp): At 10th level, the angel of decay can use Inflict Serious Wounds, Bestow Curse, Animate Dead and Contagion, each once per day per three HD.

    Unhallowed Presence (Sp): At 13th level, the angel of decay generates the effect of the Unhallow spell with a radius of 100 feet. No secondary spell is attached to this effect, which can be activated or suppressed as a swift action.

    Fallen Magus (Sp): At 14th level, the angel of decay can use Inflict Critical Wounds, Antilife Shell, Create Undead and Unholy Blight, each once per day per four HD.

    Damned Magic (Sp): At 15th level, the angel of decay can use Harm, Finger of Death, Avasculate, Energy Drain and Soul Bind, each once per day per five HD. Additionally, once per day per ten HD he can use Despoil, Etherealness and Avascular Mass.



    Comments:
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    Fourteen extra strength. Let me sink that in. Fourteen. Sounds like a big number. But the Angel of decay is a frontliner with half BAB, so he needs those extra fourteen points of strenght to even up the attack bonus.

    The angel of decay is a monstrous machine of debuffing and bringing the hurt. A paladin gone horribly wrong, and he even keeps the MAD, depending on strenght, charisma and wisdom (which he gains bonuses in at least!). An unholy avatar of all that is corrupt, with vast necromantic powers. And he is no slouch in melee either.

    Flight is quite poor, does not scale and comes in somewhat late, this is intentional, because the angel is supposed to stay on ground to make use of his Rotting Aura, the prime gimmick of the class, the defining feature, I should say (because Rotting Rend Touch isn't all that unique, really).

    So, if you feel like playing something that is gruesome for the sake of being gruesome, open your arms wide and give a big hug to the Angel of Decay. Because like Tsukiko says, all the undead really want is someone to love them.
    Last edited by Draken; 2010-07-11 at 01:50 PM.
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  16. - Top - End - #496

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    It's an undead. It gets no class skills and no good saves. I believed I already had made that clear with every other undead done so far.

    Hyudra:Great work with the stone giant there! At first glance I can't really spot anything wrong on it. Nice touch with all the intimidating theme!

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Aw.

    Ok, changing that.

    Edit: Changed that.

    Next on the undead project. The Atropal (Scion) and the all-mighty Brain in a Jar.
    Last edited by Draken; 2010-05-29 at 06:58 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Hooray! The more undead monster classes the better. I also request the boneclaw from MM3.
    Really really really awesome avatar thanks to neoseph7

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Is there any particular reason the Dragons don't get immunity to paralysis and magic sleep effects? I'm not really in the mood to look through 500+posts for an answer.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Oh yes, I forgot the third undead I was planning to make, the Visage.

    I'm on a a Libris Mortis rush here.
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  21. - Top - End - #501

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    Is there any particular reason the Dragons don't get immunity to paralysis and magic sleep effects? I'm not really in the mood to look through 500+posts for an answer.
    They do, it's part of dragon traits as per the srd.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    They do, it's part of dragon traits as per the srd.
    Ah. Don't know how I missed that.

    I'll just shut up now.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    I want to fit something into the stone giant so that fling is still a possibility at a later level when enemies can get freedom of movement easy peasy. (Which means they can't be grappled and can't be flung)

    All in all, I just want the giants to feel fun. I gave the hill giant a dungeon-crasher-esque charge, the Stone Giant gets to knuckleball gnomes into walls (or each other, or over a cliff), the others... well, you'll see.

    Angel of Decay
    • I think you fell into the trap of giving the angel too many ability score increases.
      Edit: Either way, I'd move the +1 strength from first level to 8th. This makes the AoD more on par with other undead. Not entirely there, but closer.
    • Natural armor should probably stick to the trends thus far in this thread, with simply +Wis to nat armor.
    • Claws do a lot of damage for 1st level. They do 1d10 when he's at large size? I mean, even if you start with 10 strength, you're packing a +8/+8 attack for 1d10+4 each, with potential rend and two +6 wing attacks for 1d6+2 each. It's a paladin-esque melee-ish creature, true, but I have to wonder.
      Edit: Ok, dug up my Libris Mortis. AoD's really do have big claw damage. I'd consider toning down the claws at first level and introducing an ability later that bumps them up a tad, if we're sticking to the overarching concept of 'melee plus aura of bad.'
    • Rotting touch is unclear re: how double damage works. Does it deal the base attack (1d8) damage? If so, does it double the base damage and the rend damage?
    • Rotting Aura - Would be easier to read/scale if you just said the area was 5' for every 4HD.
    • The Angel-of-decay-to-caster-level shift is confusing with the specific 'necromancy spell' limit. This is made more confusing by the fact that you make this 'angel of decay as a caster' statement near the end of the class. Address the potential when it first gets SLAs.
    • The angel of death can heal itself a great deal with it's own inflict spells. This bears noting, but may not be bad for balance.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-05-29 at 07:47 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Angel of Decay
    • I think you fell into the trap of giving the angel too many ability score increases.
      Edit: Either way, I'd move the +1 strength from first level to 8th. This makes the AoD more on par with other undead. Not entirely there, but closer.
    • Natural armor should probably stick to the trends thus far in this thread, with simply +Wis to nat armor.
    • Claws do a lot of damage for 1st level. They do 1d10 when he's at large size? I mean, even if you start with 10 strength, you're packing a +8/+8 attack for 1d10+4 each, with potential rend and two +6 wing attacks for 1d6+2 each. It's a paladin-esque melee-ish creature, true, but I have to wonder.
      Edit: Ok, dug up my Libris Mortis. AoD's really do have big claw damage. I'd consider toning down the claws at first level and introducing an ability later that bumps them up a tad, if we're sticking to the overarching concept of 'melee plus aura of bad.'
    • Rotting touch is unclear re: how double damage works. Does it deal the base attack (1d8) damage? If so, does it double the base damage and the rend damage?
    • Rotting Aura - Would be easier to read/scale if you just said the area was 5' for every 4HD.
    • The Angel-of-decay-to-caster-level shift is confusing with the specific 'necromancy spell' limit. This is made more confusing by the fact that you make this 'angel of decay as a caster' statement near the end of the class. Address the potential when it first gets SLAs.
    • The angel of death can heal itself a great deal with it's own inflict spells. This bears noting, but may not be bad for balance.
    1. Changed the strength bonus from first level to 8th, this does make a nice change that the attack bonus always increases after level 1, either from BAB or strength modifier. The large strength hails both from the fact that the original monster is incredibly strong and the fact that this is a meleer with bad BAB.

    2. A few monsters have the natural armor be different like that. Including the increase when the size goes up. One example is the Vasuthant.

    3. Reduced claw damage at level 1 to 1d6. It now goes straight up to 2d6 at 8th level when the size increases.

    4. Clarified Rotting Touch touch attack option a bit.

    5. Personal thing. The aura of the original stops at 15 feet radius, which is pretty damn big and the effect is quite powerful.

    6. That line in Damned magic only refers to Spells, not spell-like abilities. It is there for those AoD who multiclass into cleric or dread necromancer (for whatever reason), or for a more likely possibility, Blackguard. The angel doesn't give spells known or spells per day, but it does give Caster Level, if only for necromancy spells. He also, of course, counts towards domain powers. So if you take one level of cleric after taking your 15th level in AoD and select... The destruction domain, you will smite like a 16th level cleric.

    7. Self-healing should easily balance out with the lack of a constitutition score, d12 HD and desecrate can't really measure up to a constitution score. And the Angel does not have Unholy Toughness (Cha to HP), like a few of the other undead. Self-healing is also fairly common around these parts.
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  25. - Top - End - #505
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    1. Changed the strength bonus from first level to 8th, this does make a nice change that the attack bonus always increases after level 1, either from BAB or strength modifier. The large strength hails both from the fact that the original monster is incredibly strong and the fact that this is a meleer with bad BAB.
    Fair.

    2. A few monsters have the natural armor be different like that. Including the increase when the size goes up. One example is the Vasuthant.
    Vasuthant, at a glance, gets nat armor equal to his Cha mod.

    3. Reduced claw damage at level 1 to 1d6. It now goes straight up to 2d6 at 8th level when the size increases.
    Could be more gradual, but sure.

    5. Personal thing. The aura of the original stops at 15 feet radius, which is pretty damn big and the effect is quite powerful.
    It is powerful, but by 16th level, IMHO, game balance is already borked, and battles aren't won by damage anyways.

    6. That line in Damned magic only refers to Spells, not spell-like abilities. It is there for those AoD who multiclass into cleric or dread necromancer (for whatever reason), or for a more likely possibility, Blackguard. The angel doesn't give spells known or spells per day, but it does give Caster Level, if only for necromancy spells. He also, of course, counts towards domain powers. So if you take one level of cleric after taking your 15th level in AoD and select... The destruction domain, you will smite like a 16th level cleric.
    I think it would be far more elegant to simply stick with Oslecamo's method and then encourage necromancy spells with a flat caster level boost or a passive effect. It looks like a flat out headache should a player go with any class that has both necromancy and other spells, and gets significant boosts to some while others remain useless.

    7. Self-healing should easily balance out with the lack of a constitutition score, d12 HD and desecrate can't really measure up to a constitution score. And the Angel does not have Unholy Toughness (Cha to HP), like a few of the other undead. Self-healing is also fairly common around these parts.
    Aye. I draw an analogue between the AoD and the paladin. Pally can self heal, so it makes sense.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Vasuthant, at a glance, gets nat armor equal to his Cha mod.
    Check again, the Vasuthant's natural armor increases by one every time he increases in size (3 size increases total IIRC, small>medium>large>huge). That offsets (a bit) the size increase penalty to AC.

    I think it would be far more elegant to simply stick with Oslecamo's method and then encourage necromancy spells with a flat caster level boost or a passive effect. It looks like a flat out headache should a player go with any class that has both necromancy and other spells, and gets significant boosts to some while others remain useless.
    That ability is not meant to actually encourage taking a spellcasting class. Only help out just a bit if the player does take one. It basically amounts to a +15 Caster level on all spells of the necromancy school (again: Spells. Not spell-like abilities).

    Most spells that fit the theme are necromancy spells anyway. WotC likes to tack anything that looks mostly evil in Necromancy.

    And I see why you might draw an analogue to the paladin. I mentioned it in the comments part.
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  27. - Top - End - #507
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Check again, the Vasuthant's natural armor increases by one every time he increases in size (3 size increases total IIRC, small>medium>large>huge). That offsets (a bit) the size increase penalty to AC.
    I did see that. It makes a degree of sense in terms of growth and progression. I would probably not have batted an eye had you done the same. An arbitrary 1+Wis doesn't make sense, really. Why not just make it +Wis? As I originally said, I feel it stands out and makes the AoD mesh less with the other entries in this thread. We don't want a mess of insignificant and ultimately pointless differentiation between entries that force a reader to pore over every entry. Streamlining the design process from entry to entry is best.

    That ability is not meant to actually encourage taking a spellcasting class. Only help out just a bit if the player does take one. It basically amounts to a +15 Caster level on all spells of the necromancy school (again: Spells. Not spell-like abilities).

    Most spells that fit the theme are necromancy spells anyway. WotC likes to tack anything that looks mostly evil in Necromancy.
    I gathered as much the first time you said it. I maintain it feels awkward and lopsided, when there's more elegant and streamlined ways to go about doing the same thing.

    Whatever the case, it would make far more sense if the ability was granted when you first got SLAs, so one wasn't forced to go all the way to AoD15 to get bonuses to spellcasting, should they be so inclined. It makes little sense that you'd be so naturally inclined to the arcane/divine that you'd be able to use SLAs, but you don't get bonuses to such (in the form of caster levels or other features) until really late in the game.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-05-29 at 10:44 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #508
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    It's not really a bonus you should be looking for, that one. More of a proto capstone (one I could just remove since I stuck a lot of spell-like abilities there).

    Really, all it does is compensate for the fact that you didn't take 15 levels of the actual spellcasting clases. And... It also encourages looking out for ways to grab domains with scaling powers I guess, like the destruction and entropy domains or domains that grant special turn/rebukes (Fire and Water domains, for instance).

    And the arbitrary +1 + wis mod armor is because the AoD has something that other monster classes don't really deal with when considering their natural armor. A somewhat severe MAD.
    Last edited by Draken; 2010-05-29 at 10:59 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Frost Giant


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    HD:d8
    {TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
    1| +0 | +2| +0| +0| Frost Giant body, Powerful Build, Str+1, Con+1
    2| +1| +3| +0| +0| Cold Comfort, Demolish, Str+1, Con+1
    3| +2| +3| +1| +1| Howl, Frostbite, Str+1, Con+1
    4| +3| +4| +1| +1| Growth, Throw Stone, Catch, Str+1, Con+1
    5| +3| +4| +1| +1| Trample, Cold Forged Steel, Str+1, Con+1
    6| +4| +5| +2| +2| Lay Waste, Chilling Implications, Str+1, Con+1
    7| +5| +5| +2| +2| Shiverguard, Str+1, Con+1
    8| +6| +6| +2| +2| Harbinger of Ragnarök, Str+1, Con+1
    9| +6| +6| +3| +3| Rime, Str+1, Con+1

    [/TABLE]
    Skills: 2+int modifier per level, quadruple at first level. Class skills are Climb, Craft, Jump, Listen and Spot.

    Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons and his own natural weapons, plus light and medium armor.

    Features:
    Frost Giant body: The Frost Giant loses all other racial bonuses, and gains giant traits (mainly low light vision), a base speed of 30 feet, two natural slam attacks doing 1d4+Str each and a +1 racial bonus on thrown rocks. Lastly, he gains natural armor equal to his Con bonus.

    Ability score increase: a Frost Giant gains +1 Str and +1 Con for each level in this class. By ninth level, a Frost Giant has +9 Str and +9 Con.

    Powerful Build: At first level, a Frost Giant gains Powerful Build. The physical stature of Giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever the Giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the Giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A Giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A Giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

    Cold Comfort: At second level, the Frost Giant gains a resistance to cold equal to double his HD, but takes 1 extra damage for every HD whenever he takes fire damage. The Frost Giant is comfortable in cold climates and ignores any penalties or damage from cold weather, slippery ground and cold weather effects (snowfall, hail, sleet).
    At 8HD, the frost giant is instead immune to cold and is vulnerable to fire.

    Demolish: At second level, the Frost Giant may strike at a solid object with a sweep of his weapon or fist, crushing stone and wood in a shower of splinters and rock shards, oftentimes as devastating to the enemy as a strike of his weapon. The targeted object, which must be of at least small size, takes 1d12 structural damage for every 2HD of the giant, plus his Strength bonus. The shower of stone shards and splinters emanates in a cone originating at the point of impact, in a direction of the Giant's choosing. The cone is 10' in length, plus 5' for every 2HD of the Giant. For every enemy within the cone, roll a 1d8 and consult the following chart:
    {TABLE]Result | Effect | Mechanic
    1| Dust | Foe is blinded.
    2| Splinters | Foe suffers piercing damage.
    3| Shards | Foe suffers slashing damage.
    4| Concussive Force| Foe suffers sonic damage and is deafened.
    5| Rubble | Foe suffers blunt damage and is knocked 1d3 squares (5'-15') back.
    6| Detritus | Foe suffers blunt damage and loses 10' of land movement (min 5'). Flying foes drop 1 step in maneuverability, becoming flightless if they drop below clumsy.
    7| Crushing Wreckage | Foe suffers blunt damage and takes 2 Con damage.
    8| Devastating Strike | Roll twice for this target
    [/table]
    Results 2-7 deliver 1d4+½Str damage. Blindness, Deafness and Con damage may be prevented with a Fortitude save (DC is 10 + ½ Giant's HD + Giant's Str bonus). The incidental damage and the structural damage increase one die in size as the giant changes size categories. Blindness, deafness and mobility loss may be healed with a DC15 heal check or 1 hour of time. Ability score damage is healed as normal.

    Howl: At third level, the Frost Giant may howl as a move action, filling the area with a tooth rattling roar that carries echoes of the frigid northern winds. All enemies within 50' must make a Fortitude save or stumble 5' away from the Giant and suffer the Shaken condition until the end of their next turn. All casters in earshot must make a concentration check as though they were distracted by a nondamaging spell. The DC for these saves is 10 + ½ Giant's HD + Giant's Con bonus.
    When the Giant increases in size category to Huge, targets are pushed 1d2 squares back (5-10 feet). Increase the radius to 75'.
    When the Giant increases in size category to Gargantuan, targets are pushed 1d3 squares back (5-15 feet). Increase the radius to 100'.
    If the Giant increases to Colossal size, targets are pushed 1d6 squares back (5-30 feet). Increase the radius to 150'.

    Frostbite: At third level, the Frost Giant attunes to the cold and focuses this to better hurt and maim his enemies. When the Frost Giant inflicts cold damage, he inflicts the Frostbite status on the foe. Frostbitten foes are treated as fatigued, and the condition is removed when the damage is healed.

    To these ends, the Frost Giant gains a SLA called 'Icy Weapon', which functions as the spell Magic Weapon, only it grants the Icy effect instead of an enhancement bonus (+1d6 cold damage) and it may instead affect 1d6 boulders with the same bonus. He may use Icy Weapon 1/day for every three HD he has.

    At 9HD, Icy Weapon becomes equivalent to Greater Magic Weapon for the purposes of bonuses and duration. The SLA uses Giant's HD for any effects related to caster level; it offers the Icy Burst effect and +1d6 cold damage where it would grant any enhancement bonuses after the first.

    'Icy Weapon' is for all intents and purposes an enhancement bonus and therefore does not stack with other enhancement bonuses. Only the best bonus applies. (Each +1d6 cold damage is equivalent to a +1 bonus, and Icy Burst is equivalent to a +2).

    Growth: At fourth level, the Frost Giant finishes growing to large size but loses Powerful Build. His AC, bonus to hit, slam damage, grapple and skills change accordingly, but he doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties. His base movement speed increases by 10' (This movement boost occurs again at 12HD and 20HD, as the giant increases in size again).

    The Giant continues to grow throughout his life:
    At 8HD, the Frost Giant reacquires Powerful Build, granting partial benefits of Huge size.
    At 12HD, the Frost Giant grows to Huge size and loses Powerful Build.
    At 16HD, the Frost Giant reacquires Powerful Build, granting partial benefits of Gargantuan size.
    At 20HD, the Frost Giant grows to Gargantuan size and loses Powerful Build.

    Throw Stone: At fourth level, the Frost Giant may begin throwing boulders or other large objects. A giant of at least Large size can hurl rocks weighing 40 to 50 pounds each (Small objects) up to 600 feet. A Huge giant can hurl rocks of 60 to 80 pounds (Medium objects). A Gargantuan giant can hurl rocks of 90 to 120 pounds (large objects). Inanimate objects of similar size and heft may be substituted, but you lose the racial bonus to attack rolls and have half the range.

    Catch: At fourth level, a giant that would normally be hit by a rock can make a Reflex save to catch it as a free action. The DC is 15 for a Small rock, 20 for a Medium one, and 25 for a Large one. (If the projectile provides a magical bonus on attack rolls, the DC increases by that amount.) The giant must be ready for and aware of the attack in order to make a rock catching attempt.

    Trample: At fifth level, as a full-round action, The Giant can move up to twice his speed and literally run over any opponents at least one size category smaller than itself. The Giant merely has to move over the opponents in its path; any creature whose space is completely covered by the Giant’s space is subject to the trample attack. If a target’s space is larger than 5 feet, it is only considered trampled if the Giant moves over all the squares it occupies.

    A trample attack deals bludgeoning damage (the Giant’s slam damage + 1½ times his Str modifier).

    Trampled opponents can attempt attacks of opportunity, but these take a -4 penalty. If they do not make attacks of opportunity, trampled opponents can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage.

    The save DC against the Giant’s trample attack is 10 + ½ Giant's HD + Giant’s Str modifier. The Giant can only deal trampling damage to each target once per round, no matter how many times its movement takes it over a target creature.

    Cold Forged Steel: At fifth level, the Frost Giant may begin crafting magic weapons and armor. He gains the feat 'Craft Magic Arms and Armor', even if he does not meet the standard prerequisites. Treat the Frost Giant as a sorcerer of the equivalent level for caster level and access to spells. In place of an experience cost, the Frost Giant may use trophies (skulls, bones, fur, teeth) from the corpses of people or creatures he has personally slain, which supplies an amount of experience to the crafting process equal to ½ the experience granted for defeating the foe (minimum 50). The creatures must be of small size or larger.

    Chilling Ramifications: At sixth level, the Frost Giant's innate connection to the cold and his deep wells of hatred are indistinguishable. The Frost Giant inflicts a cold that penetrates the strongest guard. The Frost Giant may ignore DR and hardness and can treat incorporeal creatures as corporeal so long as he uses his slam attacks or wields a weapon that does cold damage.

    Lay Waste: At sixth level, the Frost Giant may deliver a single powerful attack that sends up plumes of snow and dirt. With a two handed weapon, a boulder or a slam attack, the Frost Giant may simply deliver so much devastation that he needs to make no attack roll. As a full round action, the Frost Giant may place a 10' radius attack within a range appropriate for the chosen weapon (ie. at least partially in reach with a melee weapon, at range with a boulder), dealing double the damage. Foes may elect to make a reflex save to avoid damage (DC 10 + ½ Giant's HD + Giant's Str Bonus), but failure means they are knocked prone.

    Shiverguard: At seventh level, the Frost Giant may use his combined fortitude and affinity for the cold to turn and shatter the weapons of his opponents. As a swift action, declared at a point before attacks are rolled against it, the Frost Giant may draw on the power of the ice and expend a use of his Icy Weapon SLA (See Frostbite, above) to bolster his body and armor with plumes of frigid mist. In return, until the start of the Giant's next turn, every attack roll that fails to penetrate the Giant's flatfooted AC results in the weapon taking damage equal to 1d12 + the Giant's Cha bonus. Magic weapons may add their enhancement bonus to their hardness, and weapons with fire or cold enhancements take half damage. In the case of natural weapons, the attacker takes 1d3 strength damage instead.

    At 12th level, the Frost Giant may expend multiple uses of Icy Weapon to bolster the effect. Each additional expenditure of the SLA adds 1d12 damage to the effect.

    Harbinger of Ragnarök: At eighth level, the Frost Giant laces his Howl with raw malice, causing destruction and pain with his unearthly roar. By howling as a full-round action (as opposed to the standard move action), the Giant can continue howling indefinitely. So long as he does nothing else, the Giant may continue his howl in successive rounds. Each round the augmented Howl persists:
    • Creatures take 1d6 sonic damage for each round they fail a fortitude save, after the first. (A creature who fails three fortitude saves in a row would thus take 2d6 damage). They continue to suffer the effects of being pushed back and shaken (as per normal howls) until they pass a fortitude save or move out of the area of effect.
    • Creatures smaller than the giant are pushed back by the wind from advancing towards the Giant, and advance at half the speed when they move towards the Giant, unless there is cover to shield them from the rush of wind and sound.
    • Structures take 1d6 sonic damage for each round the Howl has been ongoing. (1d6 in the first round, 2d6 in the second).
    • There is a 10% chance per round, cumulative, that any imminent environmental dangers in the immediate area are triggered. This might include avalanches, building collapses and igniting fire hazards.

    The Howl ends if the Giant takes any move or standard actions. If the Giant is damaged, it must make a fortitude save (DC 10 + the damage dealt) or cease howling.

    Rime: At ninth level, the Frost Giant radiates cold, to the point where frost spreads with every footstep. When the Giant deals damage with his natural attack, he also inflicts 1 point of dexterity damage. In the case of a grapple, he inflicts cumulative damage, routinely inflicting one more instance of dexterity damage than the previous round. Dexterity damage increases to 1d2 at 13HD, 1d3 at 17HD and 1d4 at 20HD. Opponents who have lost more than half of their Dexterity to Rime shatter when their HP reaches 0, and perish instantly rather than fall unconscious. Opponents reduced to 0 dexterity via. Rime are rendered into a fine dusting of pink ice shards, whereupon any resurrection requiring a body is impossible.


    Comments:
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    There's a special place in hell reserved for Frost Giants. Well, the abyss, really, but that doesn't really roll off the tongue. It's called the Iron Wastes, and Frost Giants get their own homey slice of the abyss because they're a homage to the Jötunn of Norse mythology, diehard enemies of the Norse gods. With that in mind, I've tried to emphasize those traits that define the Jötunn. Basically, they're harbingers of destruction, so I went ahead and focused on the giant aspect of wrecking stuff - demolish should let a Frost Giant eventually go around pushing over houses or castle doors and severely wounding/maiming more than a few bystanders in the process. They're also really mean bastiches, so I've tried to emphasize that with stuff like the side effects of Demolish and how they'll make their magic gear with the bones of their victims.

    If I have any concerns, it's that I struggled to convey the giant flavor this time around. I think demolish and lay waste are fitting, but I don't know that the class as a whole carries the same sense of "I'm bigger than you" that the other giants do. He feels powerful, to be sure, and my gut feeling is that he's a bit overpowered, but I'll await feedback to see if/where I should tone him down. I just don't know that he feels properly giantish.


    Changelog:
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    • July 10 - 8:10pm - Changed shiverguard so it no longer makes you flatfooted. Added ability damage for the event of attackers who lack weapons to break.
      June 26, 11:22am - Added new seventh and eighth level abilities. Shiverguard lets the giant shatter the enemy's blades as they bounce off his armor, while Harbinger of Ragnarök lets him howl continuously, compelling destruction and disaster.
    • June 26, 11:22am - Specified that Icy Weapon constitutes an enhancement bonus and doesn't stack with other enhancement bonuses.
    • June 26, 11:22am - Moved Rime to ninth level. Gave it a small bump up in power, so enemies who have lost 50% or more of their dexterity shatter on reaching 0 hp.
    • June 26, 11:22am - Started process of making Frost Giant a 9 level class.
    • May 31, 10:52pm - New picture.
    • May 31, 10:52pm - Added a fort save to Demolish's status conditions and ability score damage.
    • May 31, 10:52pm - Howl no longer makes enemies flat footed, because such led to situations where a giant could howl and then grapple, trivializing the difficulty (no attack of opportunity, touch attack vs. no dex bonus), among other things. Instead, it blows enemies back a few feet and spooks them, while messing somewhat with casters.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-07-10 at 07:10 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #510

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    It's not really a bonus you should be looking for, that one. More of a proto capstone (one I could just remove since I stuck a lot of spell-like abilities there).

    Really, all it does is compensate for the fact that you didn't take 15 levels of the actual spellcasting clases. And... It also encourages looking out for ways to grab domains with scaling powers I guess, like the destruction and entropy domains or domains that grant special turn/rebukes (Fire and Water domains, for instance).
    It doesn't work. Rebuke is based on cleric level, not domain. As for necromancy spells, well, there's ray of enfeeblement at lv 1 and then nothing.

    I have to ask you to either make it more usefull or remove it all togheter. In particular because pseudo-spellcaster already confuses several people, so pseudo-pseudo spellcaster doesn't work that well. May I sugest simply doing pseudo-spellcaster but you can only cast necro spells but stacks with turn/rebuke undead?(so you have right away acess to high lev necromancy instead of just ray of enfeeblement).

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    And the arbitrary +1 + wis mod armor is because the AoD has something that other monster classes don't really deal with when considering their natural armor. A somewhat severe MAD.
    He's not the only one. The inevitable, ethergaunt, solar, mind flayer and others also have to deal with mad.

    The angel of decay on the other hand can afford to ditch con and get spare points for his other ability scores, and you even give her plenty of ability bonus.

    So please just +wis bonus and then increasing with size.

    Speaking of wich, made a major buff on the inevitable. it had some SLAs missing, upgraded the chains and gave it a good str bonus so it can be a proper melee dude.


    Also gave the dryad good reflex saves since it looked a little weaker than all the other feys.

    Hyudra:
    Wonderfull work with the frost giant! You're really in a roll there! But yes it does seems kinda on the overpowered side. I sugest nerfing all the "no save, just suck!" abilities, like blindness, deafness and ability damage to allowing saves.

    I would also make it able to inflict those status in creatures normally immune to it since his abilities are based on raw destruction.
    Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-05-30 at 10:16 AM.

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