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  1. - Top - End - #511

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Pixie


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    HD:d6
    {table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Feature
    1|+0|+0|+2|+2|Pixie Body, Pixie Initiate, Fey Blood, Cha+2, Dex+2, Str-2
    2|+1|+0|+2|+3|Sprite Skin, Fey Senses, Int+1
    3|+1|+1|+3|+3|Pixie Adept, Cha+1, Dex+1
    4|+2|+1|+4|+4|Pixie Finesse, Int+1
    5|+2|+1|+4|+4|Irresistible Dance, Pixie Mage, Cha+1, Dex+1
    [/table]
    Skills:6+Int modifier per level, Class skills are Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Search, Slight of Hand, Spot and Tumble.

    Proficiencies: A pixie is proficient with all simple weapons, and with the short sword, shortbow and longbow.

    Features:

    Pixie Body: A pixie loses all other racial bonus and gains fey traits (basically low light vision). It is a small sized fey with base speed of 20 feet.

    Pixie Initiate: A pixie becomes adept at casting several spell-like abilities. At level one, a pixie can cast the following SLA's. All SLA save DC's are equal to 10+1/2HD+Cha mod.

    Charm Person 1/day per HD. (Upgraded to Charm Monster at 7 HD)
    Entangle 1/day per HD.
    Sleep 1/day per HD.
    Reduce or Enlarge Person 1/day per HD. (Self only)

    A pixie's sleep SLA is unique, in that it does not have a HD cap. Instead, it can affect a number of HD equal to the pixie's HD, plus her Cha modifier. In addition, as a full round action, a pixie may fire one sleep arrow from a bow. This sleep arrow uses up one of her daily uses of the sleep SLA, but if it hits, the save DC is raised by half of the pixie's HD.

    Fey Blood: A pixie receives spells known and spells per day as a bard of same level, but she casts as a sorcerer and takes her spells known from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. In addition, spells from the Air, Healing, and Plant domains are treated as being on the pixie's spell list, but the necromancy school is treated as a barred school, and the pixie may never gain a familiar, even if she multi-classes into a sorcerer.

    If she multi-classes into a bard, her spellcasting increases as a bard.
    If she multi-classes into a sorcerer, she is treated as already having a number of sorcerer levels, for the purposes of spell slots and spells known, but not any other class features.

    {table]Pixie Level | Virtual Sorcerer Casting
    1|-
    2|1
    3|2
    4|3
    5|4
    6|5
    7|6
    8|6
    9|7
    10|8
    [/table]

    So for example a pixie 2 who takes a level of sorcerer would count as already having 1 level of sorcerer and gains the spell slots and spell known that a sorcerer gains when leveling from level 1 to 2, but would not gain any additional spell slots and spells known typically provided by taking 1 level of sorcerer.

    Her caster level remains equal to her full HD when multi-classing to sorcerer. If a pixie takes a casting prestige class, she may choose to advance her casting as that of a sorcerer.

    Ability Changes: A pixie gains Cha +2 at level 1, and +1 at levels 3 and 5, Int +1 at levels 2 and 4, Dex +2 at level 1, and +1 at levels 3 and 5, and Str -2 at level one.

    Sprite Skin: At second level, a pixie gains DR/cold iron equal to half her HD, and Spell Resistance equal to 11 + HD.

    Fey Senses:
    At second level, a pixie gains a bonus to all Listen, Spot, and Search checks equal to her HD.

    Pixie Adept: At third level, a pixie is able to cast more spells as SLA's.

    Lesser Confusion 1/day per HD. (Upgraded to Confusion at 7 HD)
    Detect Good, Evil, Law, Chaos or Thoughts 2/day per HD.
    Invisibility 1/day per 2 HD. (Upgraded to Greater Invisibility at 7 HD)

    Pixie Finesse: At fourth level, a pixie adds her Charisma modifier as a dodge bonus to her AC and gains the feat Weapon Finesse. She also gains a fly speed of 60 feet (Good). Her maneuverability increases to perfect at level 5.

    Irresistible Dance: At fifth level, a pixie may cast irresistible dance 1/day per 5 HD.

    Pixie Mage: At fifth level, a pixie is able to cast even more SLA's.

    Dispel Magic 1/day per 2 HD.
    Suggestion 1/day per HD.
    Hold Person 1/day per HD. (Upgrade to Hold Monster at 9 HD)


    Comments:
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    The pixie was a hard one due to it's horrible weakness in some areas (SLA's and combat), and amazing abilities in other areas (Permanent Greater Invisibility, and Irresistible Dance). I tried to flavor the pixie as more of a spellcaster, with some rogue elements. A few nice SLA's, some defensive abilities, and casting as a dragon will make this class viable, without making it overpowered.

    Oslecamo's comments:
    Aranii takes a quite interesting aproach to the pixie, of the the magic trickster instead of invisible hunter the normal pixie is used for. Dragon casting backed up by powerfull SLAs and excellent skills allows for a versatile support character and skillmonkey hybrid.

    The paragon path allows the pixie to focus on her manipulation part, in particular ignoring immunity to mind affecting, making a fully focused enchanter a viable character.



    Pixie Paragon



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    Prerequisites: Pixie level 5

    HD:d6
    {table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Feature
    1|+0|+0|+2|+2|Improved Sprite Skin, Combat Charming, Cha+1, Dex+1
    2|+1|+0|+2|+3|Improved Spell-Like Abilities
    3|+1|+1|+3|+3|Improved Pixie Finesse, Pixie Enchantress, Cha+1, Dex+1
    [/table]
    Skills:6+Int modifier per level, Class skills are Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Search, Slight of Hand, Spot and Tumble.

    Improved Sprite Skin: At first level, a pixie paragon becomes more resilient to attacks. For purposes of determining her DR, her HD is treated as 4 higher. (Giving an effective +2 bonus to her DR)

    Combat Charming:
    At first level, a pixie paragon becomes more adept at charming enemies during combat. When she casts an spell or SLA from the (Charm) subschool, the target does not receive a +5 bonus on it's save if it is being threatened by you or your allies. In addition, the DC of all enchantment spells and SLAs cast by the pixie paragon is increased by 1. This ability stacks with other effects that increase the DC of enchantment spells.

    Ability Increases: At levels 1 and 3, a pixie paragon's Charisma and Dexterity scores increase by 1.

    Improved Spell-Like Abilities: At second level, a pixie paragon becomes able to improve her normal spell-like abilities, and to cast additional ones. She is able to cast the following SLAs.

    Crushing Despair 1/day per HD
    Mass Charm Person 1/day per 2 HD. (Upgraded to Mass Charm Monster at 15 HD)
    Her Dispel Magic SLA is upgraded to Greater Dispel Magic at 11 HD.
    Her Suggestion SLA is upgraded to Mass Suggestion at 11 HD.
    She gains a permanent speak with animals effect, as the spell.
    She is able to use tongues, as the spell, a number of rounds per day equal to her HD x 10. Activating this ability requires a swift action, and deactivating it requires a free action.

    Improved Pixie Finesse: At third level, a pixie paragon improves her skill of avoiding attacks. She adds half of her Cha modifier to all saving throws, and gains evasion, as a rogue.

    Pixie Enchantress: At third level, a pixie paragon becomes able to affect creatures with its abilities that it normally wouldn't be able to. Any intelligent creature that would normally be unaffected by mind-affecting effects can now be targeted by mind-affecting spells and SLA's from the pixie paragon. The creature receives a +5 bonus on its save. Any creature that is normally immune to magical sleep can also be affected the the pixie's sleep SLA, though it receives a +5 bonus on its save.


    Done by Aranii
    Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-05-30 at 09:04 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #512
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    Hyudra:Wonderfull work with the frost giant! You're really in a roll there! But yes it does seems kinda on the overpowered side. I sugest nerfing all the "no save, just suck!" abilities, like blindness, deafness and ability damage to allowing saves.

    I would also make it able to inflict those status in creatures normally immune to it since his abilities are based on raw destruction.
    I think I did originally have saves in there (as well as a lot more stuff), but I opted to cull it because there's a lot of potential dice rolls involved.

    Let's say you've got a Frost Giant7/Barbarian3/Thrall of Kostchtchie10. Demolish deals 80d6+11 damage to a given structure, at which point you may well be knocking walls off houses. In the process, you're delivering a 60' cone attack. You're then rolling damage for every target in that cone (4d6+5 per) and rolling for an effect on each target (1d8 for each).

    If a player feels like using Demolish a few rounds in a row, I don't want there to be an issue with combat slowing down to a crawl. Thoughts?

  3. - Top - End - #513

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    If a player feels like using Demolish a few rounds in a row, I don't want there to be an issue with combat slowing down to a crawl. Thoughts?
    Yes. Simply make the cone affect everybody in it in the same way.

    Plus when you're rolling 100 dices, a couple more rolls won't slow down the game in any noticeably way.

  4. - Top - End - #514
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Just made regrowing heads on the werehydra more... well...
    there's a fort-save or fail on it now.
    And, I filled out the last dead level left with a +5 on that specific save. not all fort saves, just to regrow heads.

    Should probably adjust transformation time, though. After all, it's a complex tranformation.
    Demilich avatar by Smuchmuch. Thank you VERY much!

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    Awright, Supagoof, that's just awesome. Thanks!
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    Infernal avatar by Savana. Thanks!

    Nude version by SmuchMuch.

  5. - Top - End - #515
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    Yes. Simply make the cone affect everybody in it in the same way.

    Plus when you're rolling 100 dices, a couple more rolls won't slow down the game in any noticeably way.
    You don't need that "s" at the end of dice. Plural: Dice. Singular: Die

  6. - Top - End - #516
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Well, angel of decay edited. Removed the +1 to natural armor and the piece on Damned Magic that caused problems.

    Should be all fine now.
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  7. - Top - End - #517
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Remade the Slaadi pretty heavily, especially the epic levels got boost.
    Might have overdone it, so... PEACH.

    Here is the link.
    Peace is a lie; there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  8. - Top - End - #518
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Just a quick heads up: you guys are great, these look fantastic, and I am almost constantly watching this thread for new and exciting possibilities. Keep up the good work.

  9. - Top - End - #519
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Well, I have been watching this thread forever. Decided to finally sign up for an account to tell you that me and a few friends decided to play with some of your classes, and we all wanted to tell you that we loved them. I mean, it really was a lot of fun being able to finally play as the monsters we have wanted to for so long. We did have the question, if monster like devils and demons, were allowed to be of any alignment.

  10. - Top - End - #520
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by mrcarter11 View Post
    Well, I have been watching this thread forever. Decided to finally sign up for an account to tell you that me and a few friends decided to play with some of your classes, and we all wanted to tell you that we loved them. I mean, it really was a lot of fun being able to finally play as the monsters we have wanted to for so long. We did have the question, if monster like devils and demons, were allowed to be of any alignment.
    I'd assume yes considering none of the monsters seem to have "Always X alignment" or similar phrases.
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  11. - Top - End - #521
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    I'd assume yes considering none of the monsters seem to have "Always X alignment" or similar phrases.
    And besides, even 'Always' races can sometimes not be that alignment. Like in one of my games, we have a CG Succubus.

  12. - Top - End - #522
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by volthawk View Post
    And besides, even 'Always' races can sometimes not be that alignment. Like in one of my games, we have a CG Succubus.
    Even WOTC made the Succubus Paladin.
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  13. - Top - End - #523

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by mrcarter11 View Post
    Well, I have been watching this thread forever. Decided to finally sign up for an account to tell you that me and a few friends decided to play with some of your classes, and we all wanted to tell you that we loved them. I mean, it really was a lot of fun being able to finally play as the monsters we have wanted to for so long. We did have the question, if monster like devils and demons, were allowed to be of any alignment.
    It's always great to hear about another pleased player!

    Anyway, my classes don't stop you from picking other alignments per se, but the rules get fuzzy for alignment subtypes. My personal view it's that your personality can change, but a demon/angel's flesh is still made out of pure evil/good, so magic effects will count you as evil/good. As well as the DR and the property of your natural attacks. But this being homebrew feel free to adapt it to your tastes of course.

    Trenelus:
    Great job with the slaad there! No, I don't think you went overboard, but your last random high level abilities have a somewhat confusing reading. As they are now they would probably bog down gameplay more than it's worth the effort. Can't you turn them into something more simple? Like a random chance every time you use an SLA or hit with a natural attack, being able to use another SLA as a free action?

  14. - Top - End - #524
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Right, for the DR and other stuff it would be as normal. And we both remained within one step, it was we changed for our personal tastes. I played a NE pit fiend, and my friend was a NC Balor. Then we had a gloom and an angel of decay running around with us. And then the other session I play at, the DM said i could try playing a slaadi. So that should be fun. My question is, remember seeing a monster, that could tgo through mirriors and had a weapon they could create. Can someone give me a link to it?

  15. - Top - End - #525
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by mrcarter11 View Post
    Well, I have been watching this thread forever. Decided to finally sign up for an account to tell you that me and a few friends decided to play with some of your classes, and we all wanted to tell you that we loved them. I mean, it really was a lot of fun being able to finally play as the monsters we have wanted to for so long. We did have the question, if monster like devils and demons, were allowed to be of any alignment.
    Just curious - what classes did you guys pick?

    Edit: Ninja'ed. The monster you want is Nerra.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-05-31 at 04:50 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #526
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    First of all, I really like these. Finally we get some well done and usable monster classes.

    Now, for a request: could you possibly do the redcap (MMIII)?
    “Sometimes, immersed in his books, there would come to him
    the awareness of all that he did not know, of all that he had not read;
    and the serenity for which he labored was shattered as he realized the
    little time he had in life to read so much, to learn what he had to know.”
    ~Stoner, John Williams~
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  17. - Top - End - #527
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Changed high end powers again, should be more simple now.
    Perhaps.
    Peace is a lie; there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  18. - Top - End - #528
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by mrcarter11 View Post
    Right, for the DR and other stuff it would be as normal. And we both remained within one step, it was we changed for our personal tastes. I played a NE pit fiend, and my friend was a NC Balor. Then we had a gloom and an angel of decay running around with us. And then the other session I play at, the DM said i could try playing a slaadi. So that should be fun. My question is, remember seeing a monster, that could tgo through mirriors and had a weapon they could create. Can someone give me a link to it?
    Like Hyudra said, that is the Nerra (my work ).

    You can find direct links to the monster posts in the sixth spoiler of the first post of the thread.
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  19. - Top - End - #529
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    I saw that, just I did not know the name. And I also was not sure how up to date the list was.

  20. - Top - End - #530

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by mrcarter11 View Post
    I saw that, just I did not know the name. And I also was not sure how up to date the list was.
    Altough just doing a monster now and then myself I do add all monsters to my 1st post index that I deem polished enough for play.
    Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-05-31 at 06:01 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #531
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Alright, thanks for the heads up.

    sorry to nitpik, but it always bugged me. On page nine, why does the ghoul get a +3 reflex on level 2 and then back down to +1 at level 3. Is it a typo, or I am I missing something?

    Um, one other thing, when playing the pit fiend or balor, what does your resistance and DR start at.
    Last edited by mrcarter11; 2010-05-31 at 07:43 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Updated the Frost Giant. Changelog posted here for ease:
    • May 31, 10:52pm - New picture.
    • May 31, 10:52pm - Added a fort save to Demolish's status conditions and ability score damage.
    • May 31, 10:52pm - Howl no longer makes enemies flat footed, because such led to situations where a giant could howl and then grapple, trivializing the difficulty (no attack of opportunity, touch attack vs. no dex bonus), among other things. Instead, it blows enemies back a few feet and spooks them, while messing somewhat with casters.


    I'll be plugging away at the remaining three giants in the near future. Got a wedding to be at though, so it may take a bit before I can post.

  23. - Top - End - #533
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Ask and ye shall receive!

    Redcap
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    HD: d6
    {table=head]Level| BAB| Fort| Ref| Will| Features
    1|+0|+0| +2| +2| Twisted Gnat, Eldritch Stone, Bloody Cap
    2|+1| +0| +3| +3| Fey Skin, Str +1, Bonus Feat
    3|+2| +1| +3| +3| Str +1, Dex +1, Con +1
    4|+3| +1| +4| +4| Eldritch Weapon, Bonus Feat
    5|+3| +1| +4| +4| Str +1, Con +1
    6|+4| +2| +5| +5| Str +1, Dex +1, Bonus Feat
    7|+5| +2| +5| +5| Budding[/table]
    Class Skills (4+ Int Modifier): Hide, Intimidate, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, Survival.

    Proficiencies: A redcap is proficient with simple and martial weapons and with light armor, but not with shields.

    Twisted Gnat: The redcap loses all racial modifiers and gains the following:
    • Type: Fey.
    • Low-light Vision.
    • Land speed: 30 feet.
    • Size: Small.
    • Powerful Build: The physical stature of redcaps lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger.
      Whenever a redcap is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the redcap is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him.
      A redcap is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A redcap can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.


    Finally, a redcap has a natural armor bonus equal to his constitution modifier.

    Eldritch Stone (Su): At first level, the redcap gives a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls to all stones he flings from any sling. At 5 HD and every 5 HD afterwards, this enhancement bonus increases by +1.

    At 4th level in this class, the die of damage dealt by stones the redcap flings from any slings increases by one step.

    Bloody Cap (Ex): As a full-round action the redcap can dip his cap in the blood of a victim who died no longer than 1 minute per HD of the redcap before, to gain strength from the suffering and death. Whenever the redcap does so, he gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls, saves and skill checks for 24 hours, this bonus stacks with itself, but never beyond half of the redcap’s class level (minimum +1), and it does not stack with morale bonuses gained from other sources.

    The redcap only gains any benefit from this ability if the victim's CR is at least 2 lower than the redcap's character level.

    At 6th level, the morale bonus from Bloody Cap can stack to a maximum equal to half of the Redcap's HD.

    Fey Skin (Ex): At second level, the redcap gains damage reduction X/cold iron, where X is equal to half of his HD (rounded down).

    Ability Score Increases: The redcap gains a +1 to Strength at levels 2, 3, 5 and 6, he gains a +1 to Dexterity at levels 3 and six and a +1 to Constitution at levels 3 and 5.

    Bonus Feats: The redcap gains a bonus feat at levels 2, 4 and 6. This feat can be any fighter bonus feat for which the redcap qualifies.

    Eldritch Weapon (Su): At 4th level, any melee weapon the redcap wields gains a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls. This enhancement bonus increases by 1 for every four HD the redcap has beyond four.

    Budding (Ex): Redcaps are asexual beings that propagate by budding. At 7th level the redcap produces a bud from which, 24 hours later, a new redcap emerges. The new redcap has a maximum character level up to 2 lower than his parent and obeys his orders without questioning (up to and including what class levels it takes). The young redcap advances up to sixth level in the redcap monster class before multiclassing into another class he qualifies for. So long as the parent redcap is still alive, the offspring never takes the 7th level in the redcap racial class.

    If the redcap’s son dies he can bud a substitute in a process that takes 24 hours to complete.


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    What can I say about the redcap... It is a small psychotic fairy. The bully of the fairy world. No spell-like abilities here, unless you count the passive Greater Magic Weapon it has. All the advantages of small size, none of the drawbacks, go powerful build! Pretty damn big strength, decent dexterity, decent con. This is a pure melee warrior, but starts off as an archer type, before being safer in melee, specially after taking the blood of an enemy into the bloody cap.

    7th level gives ABSOLUTELY NOTHING other than the cohort son, which, like all cohorts, is a very strong class feature (which eventually doubles in benefit), but for those who don't want the hassle of making a second, lower level character, it can be easilly ignored. The disclaimer that the cohorts never take the 7th level while under control of the parent has an obvious purpose, to prevent a chain of cohorts. Goes well with swarmfighting, by the way.

    Fighter Bonus feats... Yeah, didn't have a lot else to add. Also relatively many skill points, very few class skills. Focus is, obviously, an ambush warrior.

    Basic followups would be Fighter, Ranger or Rogue, or decent classes, like warblade or totemist.

    Here ya go, the redcap.
    Last edited by Draken; 2010-06-02 at 10:59 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Redcaps are primarily a warrior in combat so a higher base attack bonus might be appropriate
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Agreed, at the very least 3/4. And yeah, the redcap is primarily good because it gains +1 to all physical stats every HD as a high natural armor. Not much else going for it, but the powerful build on a small character is pretty awesome.

    Thanks!
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    BAB increased to 3/4.

    I just have this thing for keeping the BAB, HD, saves and skill (points) mostly complying to the norm for those HD on the monster.

    Shamefully, now 7th level gives one thing besides Budding. +1 BAB.

    But everyone plays with fractional BAB so it will happen either way. No big issue.
    Last edited by Draken; 2010-06-01 at 07:24 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    I think Bloody Cap needs some attention. RAW, a Redcap can murder a sackful of rats every morning and get a 24 hour bonus to attack, saves, skills equal to 1/2 her HD, with temporary HD as well.

    I find myself wondering if the chain of cohorts is really so bad. At 20th level, you'll have two sixth level cohorts... which really points to bad scaling. They're one dimensional cohorts, so they can't do much more than combat, and they won't be able to hurt the enemy, even with strength bonuses and the bag-of-rats blood in their hair. Chances are they'll die as bystanders in every other combat.

    If you allowed chain-budding but said that a given individual's buds couldn't advance beyond (Parent's HD -4), then at 20th level, you'd have a 16th level, a 12th level, a 8th level and a 4th level. Only two, maybe three of those are going to be useful in combat, but they would be useful. The lower level ones would largely be for comic relief and flavor.

    Alternately, you could have something like 'Mob Mentality', which could give your cohorts your attack bonus so long as you attacked the same enemy in the last round. They'd still be fragile, though.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-06-01 at 09:15 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    I think Bloody Cap needs some attention. RAW, a Redcap can murder a sackful of rats every morning and get a 24 hour bonus to attack, saves, skills equal to 1/2 her HD, with temporary HD as well.

    I find myself wondering if the chain of cohorts is really so bad. At 20th level, you'll have two sixth level cohorts... which really points to bad scaling. They're one dimensional cohorts, so they can't do much more than combat, and they won't be able to hurt the enemy, even with strength bonuses and the bag-of-rats blood in their hair. Chances are they'll die as bystanders in every other combat.

    If you allowed chain-budding but said that a given individual's buds couldn't advance beyond (Parent's HD -4), then at 20th level, you'd have a 16th level, a 12th level, a 8th level and a 4th level. Only two, maybe three of those are going to be useful in combat, but they would be useful. The lower level ones would largely be for comic relief and flavor.

    Alternately, you could have something like 'Mob Mentality', which could give your cohorts your attack bonus so long as you attacked the same enemy in the last round. They'd still be fragile, though.
    1. I have no idea where you took the sixth level cohort thing. At 20th level you have two level 18 cohorts. They just, in no hipothesis, take the 7th level of redcap. Don't forget that the monsters here are not forced to take all levels in the monster classes before going off to other classes.

    And if you want the mob mentality, well, just take Leadership with you and your sons and grab three more redcap cohorts (with their own sons) and a whole bunch of redcap followers (who do cap out at level 6 pre-epic so they don't get sons).

    That's... One 20th level, three 18th level, four 16th levels, one 14th level and a whole bunch of 6th, 5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd and 1st level characters right? Go leadership! There might be more, I can't for the life of me think the entire flow chart. And there will be more ifyou go nuts and let cohorts gained form leadership take leadership (and you just might if you are nuts enough to let the class cohorts take leadership).

    Anyway, Bloody Cap adressed. You gain no bonus from killing dozens of rats... Past level 2 anyway. You still get a bonus form ratslaying at levels 1 and maybe 2... Or not, depending on your reading of the CR 1/8.

    Edit: Leadership madness totals! This assumes you don't let leadership cohorts have Leadership themselves and a charisma modifier of +5 for everyone!
    The totals are:
    One 20th level, two 18th levels, one 17th level, four 15th levels, four 13th levels, two 12th levels, six 10th levels, four 8th levels, 2 7th levels and six 5th levels.

    Sons and Cohorts only. No Followers included.

    That's a freakin' army right there.
    Last edited by Draken; 2010-06-01 at 01:35 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    These things are brilliant. I've always hated LA; the classes here are much better solutions. I was so impressed that I... gave one a try. I haven't made many classes before, though, so I'd appreciate some expert advice..

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    ARROWHAWK

    HD: D8

    {TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
    1 | +0 | +0|+2 |+0| Hawk Body, Electric Touch, Electricity Resistance, Poison Immunity
    2| +1| +0|+3 |+0 | Dex +1, Acid Resistance 10
    3| +2| +1|+3| +1| Sky Hawk Initiate, Electricity Resistance 20,
    4| +3| +1| +4|+1 | Acid Resistance 20 Dex +1
    5| +3| +1| +4| +1| Sky Hawk Adept, Growth, Electricity Immunity,
    6| +4|+2|+4|+2| Electricity Ray, Acid Immunity, Dex +1, Bonus Feat
    7| +5|+2|+5|+2| Elemental Resistance,
    8| +6|+2|+5|+2|Sky Hawk Lord, Growth, Perfect Ray, Dex +2,

    [/TABLE]

    Skills 6+Int mod(x4 at first level) Class Skills: Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Knowledge (The Planes), Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, Use Rope, Craft

    Proficiencies: Natural weapons, simple weapons (although only able to wield more unusual brands, such as tailblades)

    Features

    Hawk Body: Lose all racial bonuses and gains outsider traits (namely Darkvision 60 ft). Become small sized outsider with Fly speed 20 ft (good) and the Air and Extraplanar subtype. It has a natural bite attack that deals 1d6+Str damage. It has no actual feet, so cannot benefit from foot slot items. The arrowhawk is incapable of holding items it cannot grasp in it's beak.

    Electric Touch (Su): The arrowhawk can use this touch attack once per round as a standard action. It deals 1d6 electricity damage. The die size increases to d8 at 4 HD and continues to increase every 4 HD thereafter.

    Electricity Resistance: The arrowhawk has resistance to electricity 10. At third level, she gains resistance to electricity 20. At fifth level, the arrowhawk gains immunity to electricity.

    Poison Immunity: Arrowhawks are immune to normal poison, though poisons may be specially crafted to affect them.

    Ability Boost: Extremely Flexible, an arrowhawk receives several boosts to dexterity. +1 at second, fourth, and sixth level, +2 at 8th level.

    Acid Resistance: At second level, an arrowhawk gains resistance to acid 10. At fourth level, this resistance improves to 20. At sixth level, the arrowhawk gains immunity to acid.

    Sky Hawk Initiate: At third level, an arrowhawk’s maneuverability improves to perfect. The arrowhawk gains a +5 bonus on any roll to remain airborne or resume flight (if it is still capable of flight). It's flight speed increases to 30 ft.

    Sky Hawk Adept: A fifth level arrowhawk is so comfortable in the air that it even flies in patterns if it chooses to sleep. While flying, she gains a +1 bonus to attack airborne creatures with a lower maneuverability rating than the arrowhawk, and a +1 bonus to attack flying creatures with a lower fly speed (meaning a +2 bonus against flyers with lower speed and maneuverability). Fly speed increases to 40 ft.

    Growth: The arrowhawk increases by one size category. Note that an arrowhawk is a long creature.

    Electricity Ray (Su): The arrowhawk’s electric touch can now be used as a ranged touch attack with a range of 10 ft/HD.

    Bonus Feat: At 6th level, an arrowhawk gains weapon focus (bite) as a bonus feat.

    Elemental Resistance: At 7th level, an arrowhawk gains resistance to cold and fire equal to 5+ her HD.

    Perfect Ray: Electricity Ray now deals 2dX damage.

    Growth: The arrowhawk increases one size category. If the arrowhawk’s size increases to large, it’s hover now produces a cloud of swirling debris when she begins the turn hovering within 20 ft of the ground. The draft from its wings creates a hemispherical cloud with a radius of 60 feet. The winds so generated can snuff torches, small campfires, exposed lanterns, and other small, open flames of non-magical origin. Clear vision within the cloud is limited to 10 feet. Creatures have concealment at 15 to 20 feet (20% miss chance). At 25 feet or more, creatures have total concealment (50% miss chance, and opponents cannot use sight to locate the creature).

    Sky Hawk Lord: The arrowhawk is now a master of the sky. Her flight speed increases to 60 ft. When the arrowhawk hits an enemy with lower flying speed or maneuverability (including standing enemies with no flying speed) with a dive attack, the arrowhawk can make a trip attack as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the arrowhawk.


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    The first challenge that ended up staring me in the face was that the arrowhawk doesn't actually have alot to work with. It zaps rays and resists (a fair bit), but otherwise seems like less than a one trick pony. Off of the top of my head there were three solutions: Make the class statistics good (BAB, saves), improve it's skill monkey qualifications, or add new abilities. In the end I chose all three. Best BAB and an odd 'aerial superiority' (which I wish I could have expanded a bit more on). Some skills were also added, but it turns out that an arrowhawk already has a fair skillset.

    Problem is: while resisting elements six ways to sunday isn't impressive, it's still useful. So I'm positive that something will need downgrading, I'm just not sure what.

    Other than that, the ray starting as a touch and fine manipulation might stand out. The ray starting as close range was an attempt to lessen the potential of a first level character who can fly and use an unlimited ranged attack. At least they have to wait until third level. As for manipulation, you may notice that (under Hawk Body) they get a bonus to Use Rope. I didn't throw that in. It seems arrowhawks can tie you up, so that theoretically extends to skills that can make it more than an annoying bird that shoots lasers.
    Last edited by Parvum; 2010-06-01 at 04:48 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    1. I have no idea where you took the sixth level cohort thing. At 20th level you have two level 18 cohorts. They just, in no hipothesis, take the 7th level of redcap. Don't forget that the monsters here are not forced to take all levels in the monster classes before going off to other classes.
    True, but when I showed my roommate, she also thought that they stopped before reaching level 7. To make it clearer, I might suggest stating that Redcap cohorts advance until level 6 in the Redcap class and no further, but thereafter multiclass into an appropriate class (or even, perhaps, restricting to the warrior NPC class).

    I think two cohorts might be a bit much. Economy of actions is a big part of D&D balance, and you're effectively tripling your mileage in combat. Because redcaps are fairly restricted in what they can offer (tending towards melee-ish types), the DM can't in good conscience insist that the Redcap keep his cohorts for out-of-combat roles only. It's an awkward situation.

    Bloody Cap is still far too good, IMHO. The ghoul, by contrast, gets only the temporary hp, and there's an associated drawback.

    Quote Originally Posted by Parvum View Post
    These things are brilliant. I've always hated LA; the classes here are much better solutions. I was so impressed that I... gave one a try. I haven't made many classes before, though, so I'd appreciate some expert advice...

    Arrowhawk
    K, it's too good at early levels. You've got flight, fine manipulation (Which, IIRC, means it can use a bow), full BAB, decent HD, 8 skill points/level, and picks up electric ray at 3rd level.

    Put the arrowhawk against a standard array of low level enemies, and it'll breeze through 90% of the encounters by virtue of being untouchable (out of reach), and capable of sniping enemies to death while flying.

    Around 5th level, with flyby attack, it's still largely untouchable, since you've got a crazy fly speed.

    I know Oslecamo has expressed disdain at Trollman & K's philosophies regarding game balance, but you can look at their proscribed standard "Same Game Test" (SGT) for 5th level to get a sense of your class' balance. It's a standard array of enemies and you evaluate how a given class would perform against them at the appropriate level. The level 5 SGT is: Animated Iron Statue, Basilisk, Large Fire Elemental, Flying Manticore, Mummy, Phase Spider, Troll, Chasm, moat filled with acid, Locked door behind pit traps, Centaur archers in the woods, a howler/allip tag team, a pit filled with monstrous scorpions, a grimlock assault team and a cleric of hextor + zombies.

    If the class has a 50% success ratio, give or take a bit, it's in good shape. If it can readily defeat more than 60% of the challenges at this level, it's deemed overpowered. If it beats less than 40%, it's underpowered. By doing the SGT at levels 5, 10 and 15, one can also gauge how a class scales with levels. If it's too strong at low levels, but struggles against high level encounters (as the rogue does), it needs a high level boost.

    With the possible exceptions of Basilisk, the Manticore, the Chasm, the Centaur Archers and the Cleric (33% of the encounters), I believe the Arrowhawk would dispatch the encounters with ease. I'm not fully convinced, either, that the encounters listed above would be auto-losses for the 5th level Arrowhawk. I'd gauge it, at a glance, as having an 80% win ratio. That's without spending the WBL on magic items to shore up weaknesses.

    With that in mind, admittedly being unsure where the Arrowhawk comes from and what it's really able to do as a base monster, I'd suggest:
    • Remove fine manipulation.
    • Less skill points/level.
    • Electric Ray comes later (Perhaps 7th level) and doesn't grant the extra die of damage until a little later (10HD, maybe).
    • Fly speed scales slower, perhaps starting at 20-30' and scaling up to 60' by 8th with possibility of getting more as HD advance.


    With these changes, the fact that it can't make ranged attacks at low levels means it has to get into combat, which means it can't snipe & run, and the trivial low level encounters become a little more doable.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-06-01 at 02:17 PM.

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