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  1. - Top - End - #1201
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    Frog Dragon:Speaking of class features that poison could use some scaling.
    Done. Flying half-badger unicorns taste good sprinkled with a little salt.
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  2. - Top - End - #1202
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Alright, I'll try the Awakened Legendary Wolf. Probably will need a lot of changes, though.

    Awakened Legendary Wolf

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    HD:d8
    {TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
    1 | +1 | +2|+2|+2 |Wolf body, Scent, Track, +1 Str, +1 Dex
    2| +2| +3|+3|+3 |Trip, Primal Speed, Pack Hunter, +1 Con
    3| +3| +3|+3| +3|Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, +1 Str, +1 Dex
    4| +4| +4| +4|+4 |Primal Strength, +1 Wis, +1 Con
    5| +5| +4| +4| +4|Master Tripper, Woodland Stride, +1 Str, +1 Dex
    6| +6| +5|+5|+5 |Tracking Expertise, Primal Toughness, +1 Con, +1 Wis
    7| +7| +5| +5| +5|Swift Tracker, Pack Alpha, +1 Str, +1 Dex
    [/TABLE]
    Skill points: 4+Int mod, x4 first level
    Class Skills: Handle Animal, Heal, Hide, Jump, Knowledge (nature), Listen, Move Silently, Search, Spot, Survival, Swim

    Proficiencies: An awakened legendary wolf is only proficient with it's natural weapons.

    Features
    Wolf Body: At 1st level, the awakened legendary wolf loses all other racial bonus and gets magical beast traits (Darkvision 60ft and low-light vision). Itís a medium magical beast with a base speed of 30ft. The awakened legendary wolf has a bite attack, dealing 1d8+1.5xStr modifier. The awakened legendary wolf gets a Nat armor bonus equal to its Con modifier. The awakened legendary wolf is four legged, and lacks fine manipulation. It gains bonuses to Hide, Listen, Move Silently and Spot equal to a quarter of it's HD.

    Ability score increases: At each odd level of the class, the awakened legendary wolf gains +1 to Str and Dex. On every odd level, the awakened legendary wolf gains +1 Con. On the 4th and 6th level of the class, the awakened legendary wolf gains +1 to Wis. So at 7th level, the awakened legendary wolf would have a total of +4 Str and Dex, +3 Con, and +2 Wis.

    Track: At first level, the awakened legendary wolf gains Track as a bonus feat.

    Scent: At first level, the awakened legendary wolf gains the scent extra ordinary ability.

    Pack Hunter: At second level, the awakened legendary wolf gains extra benefit from flanking. It gains an extra +1 bonus from flanking, with the bonus increasing by one for every 6HD it has.

    Primal Speed: The awakened legendary wolf's land speed increases by 5ft for every HD from this level.

    Trip: An awakened legendary wolf that hits with a bite attack can attempt to trip the opponent as a free action without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the awakened legendary wolf.

    Uncanny Dodge: An awakened legendary wolf can react to danger before it's senses would normally allow it to do so. It retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if it is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, it still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

    If an awakened legendary wolf already has uncanny dodge from a different class it automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead. If an awakened legendary wolf already has uncanny dodge from a second class, the awakened legendary wolf automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the awakened legendary wolf.

    Evasion: An awakened legendary wolf can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If it makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, it instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the awakened legendary wolf is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless awakened legendary wolf does not gain the benefit of evasion.

    If an awakened legendary wolf already has evasion from a different class it automatically gains improved evasion instead.

    Primal Strength: The awakened legendary wolf gains Powerful Build, and it's bite attack now deals 2d6 base damage.

    Master Tripper: The awakened legendary wolf gains Improved Trip if it already has not obtained it. If it has already obtained it, the awakened legendary wolf can gain another feat it qualifies for. The strength bonus increases by 1 for every 3HD the awakened legendary wolf has, and the attack gained by a successful trip has a bonus to attack and damage equal to a third of the awakened legendary wolf's HD.

    Woodland Stride:An awakened legendary wolf may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at it's normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment.

    However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that are enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion still affect it.

    Tracking Expertise: The awakened legendary wolf gains a bonus to Survival checks equal to a third of it's HD.

    Primal Toughness: The awakened legendary wolf gains DR/- equal to quarter it's HD.

    Swift Tracker:An awakened legendary wolf can move at it's normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal -5 penalty. It takes only a -10 penalty (instead of the normal -20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.

    Pack Alpha: The awakened legendary wolf's bonus from Pack Hunter is also given to all allies in 30ft.



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    Yeah, the legendary wolf is really just the wolf, just bigger, so I had to think of extra features to add in. I decided to add some ranger-style abilities (OK, I stole some), as I though that fit the wolf, with the tracking and similar skills focused, and also played a bit more on the 'incredible animal' part.
    Last edited by Volthawk; 2010-08-05 at 01:54 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #1203
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    Hyudra:Fantastic job with the new raging blood! Just one thing still bugging me, why doesn't the reflective hide scale? It's good when it starts but when you reach high level and the oponent starts flinging 9th level spells you're not even assured to block one.
    Suggestions? I DM and play fairly regularly, but quite frankly, I didn't even know what spell turning was until I came upon the entry in the Creature of Legend (MMII). Though, truth be told, I stay away from campaigns of 14-20th level as a general rule, so I'd have little reason to run into it.

    As such, I don't have a point of reference to work from. The way both you and GorgonDantess speak, it sounds like Spell Turning should be blocking everything. My own interpretation, reading it, (especially recognizing it's a 24/7 thing for the Creature of Legend), is that it should only have a chance to block stuff, and would then reflect partial blasts/effects.

    Change the number so the average reflection level is 1/2 HD -2?

    The wyvern however looks perfect as it is, gonna add it to the list.
    I'm really happy with how the Wyvern came together. I could see myself playing one, and I think it offers enough that I could see someone giving serious consideration to a Wyvern cohort.

    The Kuo-Toa is a more exotic take but still I can't find problems with it now so gonna add it as well. You're on a roll again there!
    I half another half dozen monsters that are partially written up. Yesterday was mostly just me pushing myself to get 'em done.

    Awakened Legendary Wolf
    • Really, really helps if people list what level a given ability is required in the ability descriptions:
      Skill Name: At fourth level, the creature [flavor], allowing it to [skill description].
    • I would specify that they're four legged.
    • I would also specify that they lack fine manipulation (Even a smart wolf wouldn't be able to open a doorknob without a large number of tries.)
    • The racial skill bonuses are too good. You're talking epic level uses of pretty much everything on its skill list at higher levels.
    • For Pack Hunter, consider giving it better flank bonuses. If it gives/gets a +3 from flank at low levels, and this scales upward (maybe to +5 at high levels), I think it would be more fitting.
    • Beast Hunter is pretty ridiculous. (+3 to attack, damage, AC, and again, pretty much everything on your skill list?) And a little too niche.
    • For improved trip, uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge, evasion, and the like, what if I've already got those at low levels when it's time to get that class feature?
    • The animal companions are both a little too numerous and a little too fragile. At 20th level you'll have 4 wolves on the battlefield, each with 8HD (~55hp), 20AC, and their attack options are limited to +8 bites delivering 1d6+3 damage. Meaning they probably won't land any hits, they'll die really really fast (Enemies have like a 75% chance to hit them, since many enemies will have +25 to hit) and it'll just bog down the combat.


    Just making the next blurb separate from the above
    What are people's thoughts on animals? If the ultimate goal is to have monster classes for all the monster manual entries, how do we approach the lions, tigers and bears?

    I would argue that on their own, they don't offer enough to make up for the crippling loss of fine manipulation & speech.

    So, just brainstorming, I'd perhaps suggest a scenario where some of the animals would be half classes. As such, you'd have something like:

    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will |Special
    1st|+0|+0|+0|+0| Lion Body, Pounce
    2nd|+0|+0|+0|+0| {Insert Template}
    3rd|+0|+0|+0|+0| Leonine Roar, Scent
    4th|+0|+0|+0|+0| {Insert Template}
    5th|+0|+0|+0|+0| Improved Grab, Rake[/table]

    And the template would basically mesh with it:

    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will |Special
    1st|+0|+0|+0|+0| Awakened (Can speak, change type to augmented, magical beast)
    2nd|+0|+0|+0|+0| Kinship
    3rd|+0|+0|+0|+0| {Base creature}
    4th|+0|+0|+0|+0| Talents
    5th|+0|+0|+0|+0| {Base creature}[/table]

    or alternately (to show how something else would mesh):

    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will |Special
    1st|+0|+0|+0|+0| Dire
    2nd|+0|+0|+0|+0| Spurs
    3rd|+0|+0|+0|+0| {Base creature}
    4th|+0|+0|+0|+0| Growth
    5th|+0|+0|+0|+0| {Base creature}[/table]

    Or you could have this as a kind of semi-gestalt option while leaving the base animal written up if people so wish.

    TLDR: taking a half-race-half-template option would basically be like multiclassing, alternating template & animal levels, but declaring the gestalt would basically offer some essential enhancements from level 1, at the cost of delaying some of the features of your chosen animal.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-08-05 at 11:30 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #1204

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Suggestions? I DM and play fairly regularly, but quite frankly, I didn't even know what spell turning was until I came upon the entry in the Creature of Legend (MMII). Though, truth be told, I stay away from campaigns of 14-20th level as a general rule, so I'd have little reason to run into it.

    As such, I don't have a point of reference to work from. The way both you and GorgonDantess speak, it sounds like Spell Turning should be blocking everything. My own interpretation, reading it, (especially recognizing it's a 24/7 thing for the Creature of Legend), is that it should only have a chance to block stuff, and would then reflect partial blasts/effects.
    You seem to be misreading spell turning. Every time a spell is blocked the effect gets weaker. So if you roll a 5 and get a result of 9, and then you're targeted by a 9th level spell, it is blocked and your spell turning is expended. If you're targeted by a 4th level spell and then a 5th same deal.

    If you want it to have a chance of blocking stuff but that chance stays the same despite of how many spells are thrown at you then you'll have to specify it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Change the number so the average reflection level is 1/2 HD -2?
    If you implement the above yes it would be a good idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    I half another half dozen onsters that are partially written up. Yesterday was mostly just me pushing myself to get 'em done.
    I also got the tarrasque and some others in the works, but SC II is stealing most of my time for a week.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Or you could have this as a kind of semi-gestalt option while leaving the base animal written up if people so wish.
    I'm afraid I didn't really get that idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    TLDR: taking a half-race-half-template option would basically be like multiclassing, alternating template & animal levels, but declaring the gestalt would basically offer some essential enhancements from level 1, at the cost of delaying some of the features of your chosen animal.
    No. All animals/mindless here are already awakened because they have an int of 8 at worst. Int 2 or worst stuff can't be player characters at all by the rules.

    The ideal plan would be to condense them all in a single class:

    First levels:normal animal
    Midle levels:dire version
    High levels: legendary/special version

  5. - Top - End - #1205
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Gender details removed; now its just a choice between hunter and preist. the mutants only have an extra set of arms, so a racial feat seemed more appropriate than a prestige class
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms.Malbolge View Post
    Listen to the Crafy one. He speaks the truth, except when he doesn't which may still be the truth hidden behind a veil of crafty craftiness.

    Or something.

  6. - Top - End - #1206
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post

    • Really, really helps if people list what level a given ability is required in the ability descriptions:
      Skill Name: At fourth level, the creature [flavor], allowing it to [skill description].
    • I would specify that they're four legged.
    • I would also specify that they lack fine manipulation (Even a smart wolf wouldn't be able to open a doorknob without a large number of tries.)
    • The racial skill bonuses are too good. You're talking epic level uses of pretty much everything on its skill list at higher levels.
    • For Pack Hunter, consider giving it better flank bonuses. If it gives/gets a +3 from flank at low levels, and this scales upward (maybe to +5 at high levels), I think it would be more fitting.
    • Beast Hunter is pretty ridiculous. (+3 to attack, damage, AC, and again, pretty much everything on your skill list?) And a little too niche.
    • For improved trip, uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge, evasion, and the like, what if I've already got those at low levels when it's time to get that class feature?
    • The animal companions are both a little too numerous and a little too fragile. At 20th level you'll have 4 wolves on the battlefield, each with 8HD (~55hp), 20AC, and their attack options are limited to +8 bites delivering 1d6+3 damage. Meaning they probably won't land any hits, they'll die really really fast (Enemies have like a 75% chance to hit them, since many enemies will have +25 to hit) and it'll just bog down the combat.

    Alright, then:

    - Done.

    - Done.

    - Done.

    - Decreased the bonuses to quarter HD, and got rid of survival, instead making Tracking Expertise give the bonus, at third HD.

    - That does make more sense. Done.

    - Got rid of it.

    - Well, evasion I just took from the ranger (both it and the rogue says nothing about when you have both). I said it improves to Improved Evasion, though. Uncanny Dodge upgrades, and I'll add in the bit about levels stacking. As for Improved Trip, I just said you could pick another feat.

    - Well, the companions were just a last minute extra, meant to help Pack Hunter. Now it's changed, I'll get rid.

    Yeah, some of the features may be a bit off. I had to come up with pretty much all of them, and some were just there because I was running out of better ideas. Any other ideas for features to add/replace what's there would be appreciated.

  7. - Top - End - #1207
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post

    Kyuubi:Gargoyle whitout proefeciencies. Also like Hyudra said could use some custom special ability. Or bonus feats. Also a couple more skill points wouldn't hurt..
    Thanks for pointing out proficiencies. The skill points are just what the SRD said to do.

    Could somebody help with the custom special ability? I can't think of anything.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    The skill points are just what the SRD said to do.
    We don't do skill points by the SRD. Generally, we scale it depending on the monster and the expected role of said monster.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    Thanks for pointing out proficiencies. The skill points are just what the SRD said to do.

    Could somebody help with the custom special ability? I can't think of anything.
    I picture gargoyles as swooping down from above at their enemies; maybe a bonus when charging from above an opponent?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms.Malbolge View Post
    Listen to the Crafy one. He speaks the truth, except when he doesn't which may still be the truth hidden behind a veil of crafty craftiness.

    Or something.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    @Oslecamo: It's pretty simple: you only need to make one hide check to "hide", no matter how long you're hiding, right? So, you take a full round action to increase the bonus on that hide check. It's not like it goes away or anything.

    Okay, am I the only one who sees the ridiculous amount of ability score bonuses on the awakened legendary wolf? That's +24 to ability scores! Over 7 levels! If you need to give more than +2 to a ability scores every level to make it balanced, you're doing something wrong. I'd change it to an even mix of strength, dexterity & constitution bonuses (like +str & con 1st level, then +con and dex, then +dex & str, then +str & con again, etc) then on, say, 3rd and 6th level give +1 wisdom.
    Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-08-05 at 01:39 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    @Oslecamo: It's pretty simple: you only need to make one hide check to "hide", no matter how long you're hiding, right? So, you take a full round action to increase the bonus on that hide check. It's not like it goes away or anything.

    Okay, am I the only one who sees the ridiculous amount of ability score bonuses on the awakened legendary wolf? That's +24 to ability scores! Over 7 levels! If you need to give more than +2 to a ability scores every level to make it balanced, you're doing something wrong. I'd change it to an even mix of strength, dexterity & constitution bonuses (like +str & con 1st level, then +con and dex, then +dex & str, then +str & con again, etc) then on, say, 3rd and 6th level give +1 wisdom.
    How about gaining Str and Dex on odd levels, Con on even levels, and Wis on 4th and 6th level?

    The MMII Legendary wolf has 25 Str, 28 Dex and 21 Con, I was just trying to show that, but balancing these don't seem to be my strong point...

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Could I request that someone makes a Megaraptor class... Pretty please?
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by volthawk View Post
    How about gaining Str and Dex on odd levels, Con on even levels, and Wis on 4th and 6th level?

    The MMII Legendary wolf has 25 Str, 28 Dex and 21 Con, I was just trying to show that, but balancing these don't seem to be my strong point...
    Generally, we're here to give cool abilities, not high ability scores. See, likewise, the vrock has 24 con, but you don't see me giving it +2 con a level, do you? Or even +1 con a level. Forget the MM. The MM is stupid. And ugly. And cheats at cards. What do you think the legendary wolf should have?
    That would work perfectly, by the way.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Generally, we're here to give cool abilities, not high ability scores. See, likewise, the vrock has 24 con, but you don't see me giving it +2 con a level, do you? Or even +1 con a level. Forget the MM. The MM is stupid. And ugly. And cheats at cards. What do you think the legendary wolf should have?
    That would work perfectly, by the way.
    Cool. Apart from that, any other problems?

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    It's wordy, but I wrote up a new reflective hide with a table and everything.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Right, since no one took up my bulette request that I made a while back, I have determined that I shall do it myself!

    However, I would appreciate it if someone could lay out all the guidelines/rules for these monster classes (the things like natural armour = Con bonus, unless Con -) so I don't screw it up horribly.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    but declaring the gestalt would basically offer some essential enhancements from level 1, at the cost of delaying some of the features of your chosen animal.
    Sounds a lot like bloodlines.

    EDIT: Would be a lot easier to implement then rearranging every class just for the animal.
    Last edited by imp_fireball; 2010-08-05 at 06:15 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    • As a general tip, it's easier to do the formatting thing if you just quote an existing post and make changes as appropriate.
    • The first level always opens with [Monster] Body - which details the base features of the race. Size, land speed, natural attacks.
    • It's not explicitly stated, but the max level in the class should be = to the creature's CR. (ie. 8CR creature = 8 levels in the class).
    • De-emphasize high stats, emphasize flavor.
    • Don't use the type/subtype standards to derive skill points. Eyeball it and decide whether a creature should be a skill monkey or not. You're not forced to use the skills in the monster entry, but it's a good starting point and works in many cases.
    • Undead & Constructs get no class skills.
    • No dead levels!
    • Each level should have something interesting to offer.
    • Abilities should scale. This means abilities that you pick up should get better and thus remain viable as you gain levels/stats/whatever.
    • Advanced movement modes (ie. Flight, levitation) tend to trivialize low level encounters. Such come at ~5th level. Sometimes 4th for creatures built around flight (typically those with poor base land speeds).
    • Growth (change in size categories) comes no earlier than 3rd level (and even then, 3rd level only when you're really forced to go that route, as with Ogre, a 3 CR/level class). Generally aim for around 4th-6th level.
    • If a creature is more of a 'caster', then we use Oslecamo's method of having the SLAs segue into caster levels. This means a, say, Dragon9 that takes a level of sorcerer can get the CL/spells known/spells per day that a sorcerer would get for going from 9th level to 10th, but wouldn't get the level 1-9 stuff. A little weird, but it works well.


    A few notes on the Bulette: It's a dumb beast, with no fine manipulation (ie. it doesn't have the manual dexterity to use a doorknob, hold a sword) and IIRC, it can't speak. This is fairly crippling to a PC (especially insofar that it prevents much roleplaying), which gives you a little more leeway as far as upping its power.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-08-05 at 05:59 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    A few notes on the Bulette: It's a dumb beast, with no fine manipulation (ie. it doesn't have the manual dexterity to use a doorknob, hold a sword) and IIRC, it can't speak. This is fairly crippling to a PC (especially insofar that it prevents much roleplaying), which gives you a little more leeway as far as upping its power.
    Yeah, dumb as in 2 intelligence, so animal intelligence. And I don't think there's a way to awaken magical beasts....

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by volthawk View Post
    Yeah, dumb as in 2 intelligence, so animal intelligence. And I don't think there's a way to awaken magical beasts....
    Eh, a wizard did it somehow. It's odd, I have no real desire to play a bulette, but after seeing its 4e artwork from the MM, I've got an urge to make it playable.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    When I think of Bulettes, I think of these guys:

    Ukanlos:

    Vid: Ukanlos. Sorry about the music, couldn't find a similar vid with better music, but it does show how it fights pretty well.

    and Akantor:

    Vid: Akantor

    Both from Monster Hunter: Freedom Unite. They're classified as Wyverns, but Monster Hunter is weird like that. Ukanlos in particular is, aesthetically, very close to the D&D Bulette. Both fight as I imagine a Bulette would, with a few other tricks that come from being adapted to their environment (Ukanlos uses his bladed chin to shovel snow at his opponents, Akantor has a sorta-breath-weapon).

    And I totally know what you mean, Edge, about how one piece of art can inspire you to do a monster. That's been the case for more than a few monsters, for me.

    At the very least, having the monster written up allows better scaling for mounts or cohorts, or options if a story takes a weird turn (Say, a player Magic Jars a Bulette, and then can't exit, and DM decides to be lenient/creative).

  22. - Top - End - #1222

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    That's the spirit Hyudra! Don't be afraid to let your imagination run wild as long as the abilities aren't auto-win buttons!

  23. - Top - End - #1223
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Here's my latest

    The Hell Hound

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    HD:d10
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Body of cerberus, Scent, +1 str, +1 dex
    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Flaming maw, Abyssal breath, Shadow affinity, +1 str, +1 con
    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Trip, Savage, Hellish Howl, +1 dex, +1 con[/table]
    Skills: 2+ int mod. A Hell hound's class skills are Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, Survival

    Proficiencies: a Hell hound is proficient in its natural wepons

    features:

    Body of cerberus: A Hell hound loses all racial abilities and gains outsider traits. It is a medium sized outsider with a speed of 40ft and a bite attack that deals 1d8+1.5x strength bonus in damage. They are immune to fire but take 50% more damage from cold. The hell hound has four legs that give it a +4 bonus against trip and bull rush checks. Their paws aren't capable of fine manipulation. Hell hounds do not speak but can understand languages.

    In addition, the hell hound gains natural armour equal to its constitution bonus

    Scent: A hell hound gains the scent ability and adds it's level to survival checks to track by scent

    Flaming maw: A second level hell hound deals 1d6 points of fire damage whenever it makes a bite attack. For every six HD beyond two the hell hound gains the fire damage increases by 1d6, to a maximum of 4d6 at 20hd

    Abyssal breath: At second level, a hell hound can breath fire once every 2d4 rounds. The area is a cone with a range of 5ft per level, and it deals 1d6 fire damage per level with a reflex save(DC10+1/2HD+ Constitution modifier) for half damage.

    Shadow affinity: a second level Hell hound gains a bonus equal to half its HD to hide and move silently checks.

    Trip: A third level Hell hound can make a trip attempt as a free action when it hits with its bite attack. the hell hound gains a bonus on its strength check to trip equal to 1/4 its HD

    Savage: When a third level hell hound drops an opponent in melee(usually by reducing it to negative hit points or tripping it) the hell hound can tear into the downed enemy, dealing the same damage as its bite attack, including fire damage.

    Hellish howl: A third level hell hound can make a terrifying howl that can be heard in an area of the hell hound's choice, up to 100ft per HD. Any creature within the area with fewer HD than the hell hound is forced to make a will save(DC10+1/2HD+ charisma modifier) or be shaken for 10 minutes per HD of the hell hound. Animals that fail their saves are panicked instead. Any creature that succeeds its saving throw against this ability is immune to the hell hound's howl for 24 hours.


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    I see the hell hound as an abyssal hunting dog, and gave it the trip and savage abilities to help it bring down game for its masters. I also added the hellish howl ability, because a demonic attack dog can never be to scary
    Last edited by Crafty Cultist; 2010-08-07 at 02:01 AM.
    Avatar By Elagune

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms.Malbolge View Post
    Listen to the Crafy one. He speaks the truth, except when he doesn't which may still be the truth hidden behind a veil of crafty craftiness.

    Or something.

  24. - Top - End - #1224
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Displacer Beast


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    HD: D8
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will |Special
    1st|+1|+0|+2|+0| Displacer Beast Body, Displacement, +1 Dex
    2nd|+2|+0|+3|+0| Umbral Feint, Dissonance Shroud, +1 Str, +1 Con
    3rd|+3|+1|+3|+1| Lash and Rasp, Evasion, +1 Cha
    4th|+4|+1|+4|+1| Growth, Facade, +1 Str, +1 Con
    [/table]
    Skill Points 4+Int per level
    Class Skill Skills: Bluff, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Spot

    Proficiencies: The Displacer Beast is proficient only with its own natural attacks.

    Displacer Beast Body: The Displacer Beast loses all other racial bonuses, and acquires Magical Beast traits, giving it Darkvision 60' and low light vision. Displacer Beasts are initially six-legged, medium sized creatures with 40' land movement, a 1d6+Ĺ Str damage bite attack as a secondary natural weapon, and two tentacle attacks that deal 1d4+Str damage each, as their primary natural weapons. Tentacles are reach weapons, and Displacer Beasts can use them to attack opponents 10' away, but suffer a -4 penalty to attack opponents within 5' of them. Displacer Beasts have Natural Armor equal to their Con.

    Displacer Beasts do not have the necessary digits to wield weapons, aim wands or manage inventory (such as searching a bag for potions, strapping themselves into armor). Their tentacles do afford them some general manual dexterity, however, and a Displacer Beast can manage such simple tasks as using a doorknob, opening a chest or holding (but not wielding or aiming) an object. Displacer Beasts can speak Common, with other languages possible via. intelligence bonus, as normal.

    Attribute Bonus: The Displacer Beast gains +1 to Dexterity at first level, +1 Cha at third level and +1 Str and Con at second and third levels, for a total bonus of +2 Str, +2 Con, +1 Dex and +1 Cha at fourth level.

    Displacement: The Displacer Beast has the ability to bend light around itself, causing phantom images of itself or parts of itself to fill the area in its immediate vicinity, while simultaneously using flickers of invisibility and transparency to cast doubt on its real location. Opponents who battle the Beast will see movements in the corner of their eye that the Beast isn't really making, and quickly lose track of the foe.

    In game terms, Displacement ensures that any melee or ranged attacks (including ranged touch attacks) directed at the Displacer Beast have a 15% miss chance. This chance increases as the Displacer Beast takes levels in the class, with second level offering an added 10%, third level offering 15%, and fourth level offering 10%, for a total of 50% miss chance.

    This miss chance continues to increase as the Displacer Beast gains HD. Every two levels gained outside of the Displacer Beast class offer a bonus % to the miss chance, equal to the number of levels the Displacer Beast has in this class. Should the Displacer Beast take another level in this class thereafter, the benefit applies retroactively. ie. A 3rd level Displacer Beast with 6 levels in rogue would have 15+10+15=40% miss chance from the three Displacer Beast levels and a 3x3= 9% miss chance bonus from the levels in other classes. If it then took the final level of Displacer Beast, it would have a total of 50% from the Displacer Beast levels and 3x4=12% from the rogue levels.

    True Seeing allows someone to identify the Displacer Beast's true location, but See Invisibility does not. When the Displacer Beast reaches 10HD, it retains half the benefit of Displacement and related abilities even when opponents have True Seeing. Abilities either offer half the benefit (Dissonance Shroud, Facade, Displacement) or just have only a 50% chance to work as normal (Umbral Feint).

    Umbral Feint: A second level Displacer Beast can, once per minute, focus the phantom images of its Displacement ability in a particular direction as a swift action. To the unwary eye, this appears much as though the Displacer Beast were suddenly lunging in a particular direction. This ability extends in a line reaching 5' for every 2HD of the Displacer Beast. If this effect passes through any squares threatened by an enemy that is willing and able to make an attack of opportunity against the Displacer Beast, the enemy will do so. Further, any enemies that are using defensive moves/stances that are triggered by approaching enemies (such as preparing a spear to intercept a charge) or who have readied actions against the Displacer Beast will perform the actions against the phantom images, unless they pass a spot check (DC is 10+Ĺ Displacer Beast's HD + Displacer Beast's Cha bonus). Magical effects and traps are generally not triggered by the Umbral Feint, but may be if they are driven or activated by a sentient intelligence (such as a magical effect being manually controlled by a Djinn, or a kobold ready to set off a rockslide trap against the first creature that comes through a tunnel).

    Dissonance Shroud: A Displacer Beast proves hard to target with spells. A second level Displacer Beast expands on the protections afforded by Displacement, which already protects against touch spells, to shroud it against single target, non-touch spells. A Displacer Beast gains a bonus to saves against such spells equal to its Cha, so long as the spellcaster cannot pierce the Displacer Beast's Displacement (ie. with True Seeing).

    Lash and Rasp: A third level Displacer Beast is more adept with its tentacles, and can strategically impair their opponents by raking vulnerable areas with the myriad barbed hooks that cover the ends of each tentacle. The Displacer Beast now has an extended critical threat range (19-20) with its tentacle attacks. Further, when a Displacer Beast threatens a critical on an opponent they strike with their tentacle, they may rasp the opponent with their barbed hooks to deal one point of ability damage. This point of ability damage, affecting any attribute excepting Int or Wis, is delivered without a save if the Displacer Beast confirms the critical. If the Displacer Beast does not confirm, however, opponents get a Fortitude Save to fend off the ability damage, with a DC of 10 + Ĺ Displacer Beast's HD + Displacer Beast's Dex bonus.

    If the Displacer Beast takes levels in Rogue, and delivers a sneak attack with its tentacles, it may elect to rasp the opponent rather than emphasizing damage. It can trade away 1d6 sneak attack damage for one instance of ability damage. If it can deliver 3d6 or more sneak attack damage, it may trade away up to one third of the 1d6 die for multiple instances of the rasp effect. Displacer Beast levels now stack with levels in Rogue for the purposes of sneak attack progression, but not other class features. Should the Displacer Beast take levels in another scoundrel class (such as Scout, Ninja, and other classes that get situational damage bonuses as a core class feature), it may elect to take advantage of this class feature in the same manner as the Rogue.

    At 8HD, the damage increases to 1d3 ability damage to the statistic of choice (again, Int or Wis excepted). At 13HD, this increases to 1d4. At 18HD, this advances to 1d6.

    Evasion: A Displacer Beast of third level or higher has Evasion as a class feature. If it makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, it instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the Displacer Beast is wearing no armor, or if is wearing light armor and is proficient in said armor. Helpless Displacer Beasts do not gain the benefit of Evasion. Should the Displacer Beast gain Evasion from another source, it improves to Improved Evasion.

    Growth: A fourth level Displacer Beast grows to large size. Its reach, grapple modifiers, natural attack damage and skills change accordingly, but it doesn't gain any ability score bonuses or penalties. It may now reach up to 15' with its tentacles.

    The rare Displacer Beast grows to become a Pack Lord. When a Displacer Beast reaches 12HD, it advances to Huge size, gaining a 20' reach with its tentacles and a 10' reach with its bite. Again, its grapple modifiers, natural attack damage and skills change accordingly, but it doesn't gain any ability score bonuses or penalties.

    Facade: At Displacer Beast of fourth level or above that finds itself in dire straits will instinctively overcharge its own Displacement ability to hide itself in a morass of shadowy images. As a free action, the Displacer Beast may employ the Facade ability, representing the Displacer Beast's need to protect itself from danger. The Displacement effect is enhanced by 25%. This benefit is cumulative (rounding up), not additive, so a base displacement of 50% would become 63%. Further, the Displacer Beast effectively casts a mirror image effect on itself, with its HD counting as caster levels for the purpose of the spell. Should the Displacer Beast take a move, standard or full-round action, the effect (including the mirror images) immediately end.

    This is largely a defensive ability, however, and a Displacer Beast that employs it will find that it has overtaxed its ability and loses the benefit of Displacement, Umbral Feint and Dissonance Shroud for 2d4 rounds after the effect ends. That said, the fact that this is an instinctive ability means that it can be activated even if the Displacer Beast is helpless, crippled by a condition, confused or caught in a spell effect. Only charm spells that bias the Displacer Beast's perceptions, petrifaction and death will prevent it from being able to activate this ability.
    Comments
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    Another classic D&D monster for the list: the Displacer Beast.

    So, I emphasized the signature ability with some features that generally work off the concept, and let it scale up to 80% at 20th level. Beyond that, I built it like a rogue. You lose the skill monkey-ness for some larger HD, stat bonuses and defensive abilities. You've got about a little under a 10% chance to deliver ability damage on attacks, and reach weapons to do it with.

    You won't dish it out like a rogue does, unless you're prepared to full attack, but you've got that much more staying power.

    I opted to let it scale with rogue, scout and other classes to give it a little more elbow room as far as advancement outside of the class. Displacer Beast Scouts make a fair amount of sense, logically.

    Given how the class is put together, I get the impression it may not pass muster in one shot like the Wyvern did; holes in the design and stuff being deceptively powerful or underpowered given circumstances. Feedback is welcome.
    Changelog
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    2:00am on Saturday, August 7th:
    • Changed the scaling so it doesn't give the displacer beast 116% or whatever Displacement chance. Now counts every two levels in other classes for scaling purposes. (To 82% at 20th level).

    6:08pm on Saturday, August 7th:
    • Let the Displacer Beast retain some Displacement when fighting opponents with True Seeing.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-08-07 at 05:09 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #1225
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Crafty Cultist View Post
    The Hell Hound
    • Flaming Maw needs to scale. +1d6 damage is lame at 20th level.
    • Helps if you bold or italicize the ability names in the body of text, to help make individual entries stand out.
    • Re: shadow Affinity, I'm not sure I like the trend of creatures getting a lot of 'equal to half their level' to skills. It's coming up a lot, recently, and could stand to be cut down to maybe 1 skill per monster. In general, it should apply only when the monster entry details a racial bonus to a skill.
    • The bonus to the strength check is probably unnecessary in Trip. It already scales with higher strength, which you get with more levels.
    • Savage probably scales too well with improved trip. You attack, get a free trip attempt with a +4 bonus, then two free attacks on the tripped enemy? 'Dropping an enemy in melee' is also kind of vague.
    • Hellish Howl kind of scales badly with levels. By this, I mean that when you're 20th level, you howl, and your howl extends a third of a mile, or two thirds of a kilometer. You then affect everything in the dungeon (also announcing your presence), and every enemy on the other side of the dungeon either fails their save (and you don't reach them before it expires) or makes their save and is immune later, when it's actually time to fight.

      Allow the Hell Hound to reduce the area of effect if they wish, as I did with Harpy.
    • You should specify if it can talk or use fine manipulation (IIRC, it can do neither), and that it has four legs (which matters when being tripped).
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-08-06 at 11:56 PM.

  26. - Top - End - #1226
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    50+(4x16)=114. So, at 20th level, the displacer beast gets 114% miss chance. Was this intentional?
    Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer

  27. - Top - End - #1227
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    No, that's me being terrible at math when writing up classes at 2am.

    Edit: Issue addressed, just fixing up the example given... and there.

    Now scales with every 2 levels in classes that aren't Displacer Beast. Max of 82%; 100% if you activate Facade.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-08-07 at 02:12 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #1228
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    • Flaming Maw needs to scale. +1d6 damage is lame at 20th level.
    • Helps if you bold or italicize the ability names in the body of text, to help make individual entries stand out.
    • Re: shadow Affinity, I'm not sure I like the trend of creatures getting a lot of 'equal to half their level' to skills. It's coming up a lot, recently, and could stand to be cut down to maybe 1 skill per monster. In general, it should apply only when the monster entry details a racial bonus to a skill.
    • The bonus to the strength check is probably unnecessary in Trip. It already scales with higher strength, which you get with more levels.
    • Savage probably scales too well with improved trip. You attack, get a free trip attempt with a +4 bonus, then two free attacks on the tripped enemy? 'Dropping an enemy in melee' is also kind of vague.
    • Hellish Howl kind of scales badly with levels. By this, I mean that when you're 20th level, you howl, and your howl extends a third of a mile, or two thirds of a kilometer. You then affect everything in the dungeon (also announcing your presence), and every enemy on the other side of the dungeon either fails their save (and you don't reach them before it expires) or makes their save and is immune later, when it's actually time to fight.

      Allow the Hell Hound to reduce the area of effect if they wish, as I did with Harpy.
    • You should specify if it can talk or use fine manipulation (IIRC, it can do neither), and that it has four legs (which matters when being tripped).
    • Hellish maw now scales up to 4d6
    • Ability names bolded
    • The hell hound does have a racial bonus to hide and move silently. I felt the bonus helped with the stalking aspect of their hunter nature
    • as for savage and trip, the hell hound isn't capable of fine manipulation, so its a little restricting. I though it should be good at what it does(bringing down its enemies and tearing them to pieces
    • I've given them the ability limit the range of their howl, but the max range is still the same and the duration has increased. The full range might not be to appropriate for dungeon crawls but it will induce dread in the people of an unfortunate village
    • Ive specified about their speech and motor functions
    Avatar By Elagune

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms.Malbolge View Post
    Listen to the Crafy one. He speaks the truth, except when he doesn't which may still be the truth hidden behind a veil of crafty craftiness.

    Or something.

  29. - Top - End - #1229
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    So, any other problems with the wolf?

  30. - Top - End - #1230
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    I would like to make a request...the lowly Krenshar! Yes, yes, I know...no hands, no talking makes RPing a...challenge, to say the least. But that's half the fun. Besides, it's a big fuzzy skull-headed kitty/hyena. What's not to love about it? Really been wanting to try playing one, but the +2 LA seems a bit much, considering it's downsides. So, I give it to you folks. Thanks in advance.

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