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  1. - Top - End - #1021
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    Vrock added to the list.

    AutonstheGreat1:
    Your earth elemental looks very good but I think it could use a couple of tweaks:
    -Earth embrace ignore freedom of movement.
    -Capstone SM keep increasing with HD so you can use SM IX at 20 HD or something like that. And in restropetective do it for the air elemental as well.
    OK, but I'm not sure what part makes it ignore that? What should I change to fix that?

    I chose SM V for a reason, the idea was that it the elemental could summon elementals smaller and weaker than itself. I cut it short because V lets you summon one medium elemental or many small ones, but I suppose I will make it scale.
    Last edited by AustontheGreat1; 2010-07-23 at 08:05 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #1022

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by AustontheGreat1 View Post
    OK, but I'm not sure what part makes it ignore that? What should I change to fix that?
    Earth embrance completely envelops the target, so it should ignore freedom of movement. It's also necessary to keep that tactic viable as FoM comes online at 7th level.

    Quote Originally Posted by AustontheGreat1 View Post
    I chose SM V for a reason, the idea was that it the elemental could summon elementals smaller and weaker than itself. I cut it short because V lets you summon one medium elemental or many small ones, but I suppose I will make it scale.
    Well, an earth elemental 11/anyting 9 will certainly be stronger than the elder elemental summonable by summon monster IX

  3. - Top - End - #1023
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Small recommendation based on personal opinion: Don't make an ability (grapple) viable by making another (Freedom of Movement) entirely useless. Have it so that anyone who has Freedom of Movement up has at least an extra bonus to resist the attacks, +4 is the usual bonus granted by immunity when an ability pierces that immunity.
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  4. - Top - End - #1024
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    -Remove the no swim penalty. Even melee dudes in D&D have the right to bend physics, let alone arcane animated contructs.
    Being made of solid iron? That's just silly. Remember that he has no need to breathe, and can just walk along the bottom.
    -Remove the skill penalty. The iron golem's plate is suposed to be a literal second skin. And it already has few skill points and no class skills to represent his inaptitude at those fields.
    Do you think it would be balanced to keep the armor, but get rid of the ACP?
    -Wasting breath with a regular cooldown instead of per ecounter, wich is kinda of an abstract concept and should be limited to ToB stuff. I sugest 5 rounds like the binder strongest abilities.
    See, I'm not a fan of that: besides, it cuts down on bookwork, not having to keep track of how many rounds it's been since you last used the ability.
    -Like undeads all construcsts have poor BAB. Give it +1 Str at all levels to represent his physical prowess.
    Uhh... no, they don't...

    Otherwise, it kinda looks like a one trick pony since most of his abilities are defensive, so I would add the following:
    -Intimidate using str.
    *facepalm*
    -His massive plated body provides cover to smaller nearby allies.
    Ooooh, neato.
    -Ability to upgrade his fists to exotic materials.
    -Ability to integrate weapons inside his body and draw them as a free action?
    -Ability to hide stuff inside him (including medium or smaller sized humanoids)?
    That's... interesting...
    -Rocket punch? With his low low mobility he really needs some long range attack to deal with pesky flying orbwizards and mounted archers. Firing his fists would be cool and profitable. Retrieve them with an attached chain.
    Now that's just silly... but I'll think of something along those lines.

    On the force golem:
    -Constructs don't get good saves or class skills. No exception.
    Well, in the force golem entry in the MM, it clearly has good reflex saves and a few class skills... but, I suppose I can change that.
    Still, I wanted something to represent that this is a sentient golem who's smarter than most people. And quicker. Oh, and stronger, of course.
    -It could use a couple more stat increases.
    Righto, boss.
    -Two first levels kinda empty. Make it unlock one force power per level instead of all at 3rd level.
    I donno... first level gives construct type, which is pretty much as good as undead, and 2nd gives cha-to-AC, which is just good.

    Otherwise great job! The golems were a very tough challenge to begin with but you're tackling them quite well!
    Thanks!

    I specially like the ressurection rebuild method, and I'm totally stealing the HP buff for my inevitable.
    Heheh, yeah- it needed something that wouldn't give it +20 hp at first level. I mean, yikes. And it's just not fair to make players use a limited wish to revive it, when it's a freaking machine. We can rebuild him- we're freaking wizards.
    Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-07-23 at 11:58 AM.
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  5. - Top - End - #1025

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess
    Being made of solid iron? That's just silly. Remember that he has no need to breathe, and can just walk along the bottom.
    Untill he reaches the bottom. Throw him into the sea and he'll take several rounds to reach the bottom and then he'll have to walk hours untill he finds the coast.

    Again, MAGIC iron. A wizard did it. Not even the earth elemental has a penalty for swimming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess
    Do you think it would be balanced to keep the armor, but get rid of the ACP?
    Certainly. Skillmonkeys deserve nice things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess
    See, I'm not a fan of that: besides, it cuts down on bookwork, not having to keep track of how many rounds it's been since you last used the ability.
    And how do you define an ecounter? What it's in the middle of a war and enemies keep poping up? What if you suspect an invisible enemy is nearby and want to spray a room with gas? X turns cooldown is much more simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess
    I have no idea what you're talking about. I always said constructs have medium Bab. Even my inevitable had it before. Move along move along.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess
    Now that's just silly... but I'll think of something along those lines.
    A monster class that reaches such an high level needs to have some anti-air trick, either flying himself or some powerfull ranged attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess
    Well, in the force golem entry in the MM, it clearly has good reflex saves and a few class skills... but, I suppose I can change that.
    Still, I wanted something to represent that this is a sentient golem who's smarter than most people. And quicker. Oh, and stronger, of course.
    Your iron golem is an awakened one, remember. And the inevitable is pretty smart, but doesn't get class skills as well.

    As for quicker that's for what you have the cha to AC.

    I consider the really good ref save a typo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess
    I donno... first level gives construct type, which is pretty much as good as undead,
    It also makes healing a pain. The inevitable gets his chains at level 1. At least give him the force reactive at lv 1. It's not that strong of an ability by itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess
    and 2nd gives cha-to-AC, which is just good.
    Counter balanced by the fact you don't allow him to wear armor at all (even a wizard can get mythril chainshirt) and it's a MAD class needing str, dex and cha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess
    We can rebuild him- we're freaking wizards.
    Stronger, faster...More buyoant!
    Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-07-23 at 01:08 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #1026
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    On the force golem:
    -Constructs don't get good saves or class skills. No exception.
    Maybe I'm reading the entry on constructs wrong but to me it sounds like mindless constructs don't get class skills. because otherwise they wouldn't get feats either.
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  7. - Top - End - #1027

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuub
    Maybe I'm reading the entry on constructs wrong but to me it sounds like mindless constructs don't get class skills. because otherwise they wouldn't get feats either.
    Mindless constructs don't get skill points at all.

  8. - Top - End - #1028
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    Mindless constructs don't get skill points at all.
    Ah. Missed that. Thanks for pointing it out.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    You and your golems.

    Current project: Anaxim.

    Now that is turning out interestingly All the devinity mentions. I am thinking of adding an optional rule to play it as a living construct instead of a normal construct. It is something to think about for the other constructs here.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Well, with only average BAB, No good saves, and no skill points, The Iron golem doesn't appeal to me after the first three levels.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Hey I'd like to see a Griffon if you get the time. I really like the work you've done so far.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Hey! Just got an idea; how about a valkyrie class, like the ones from Tome of Martial Power?
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  13. - Top - End - #1033
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Mezzoloth


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    HD: d8

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Mezzoloth Body, Yugoloth Magic (Darkness), Fiendish Fury: Tear

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Yugoloth, Spell Resistance, Fiendish Fury: Harm, +1 Str

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Fiendish Fury: Curse, Produce Flame&Cause Fear, +1 Cha

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Fiendish Fury: Vigor, See Invisibility, +1 Str

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Fiendish Fury: Pounce, +1 Cha

    6th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Fiendish Fury: Rejuvenation, Dispel Magic&Deeper Darkness, +1 Str[/table]

    Proficiencies
    The mezzoloth has proficiency in all simple and martial weapons and light and medium armor.

    Skill Points: 4+Int
    Class Skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Diplomacy, Disguise , Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (any), Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival, Tumble, Use Magic Device

    Mezzoloth Body
    The Mezzoloth loses all previous racial and gains the outsider traits (Darkvision 60ft, no need to eat or sleep). It gains a natural armor bonus equal to it's con modifier, and two claw attacks that deal 1d4+str damage each. It also gains a land speed of 40ft per round.

    Ability Bonuses
    The Mezzoloth gains a +1 to Str at levels 2, 4 and 6 (Total +3). It also gains a bonus to Cha at levels 3 and 5 (Total +2).

    Yugoloth Magic
    At the levels in which a spell name is indicated above the Mezzoloth can use it a certain number of times per day as an SLA. Save DCs are 10+1/2HD+Cha mod. Caster level is equal to hit die.
    1-Darkness 1/day per HD.
    3-Produce Flame and Cause Fear 1/day per 4 HD.
    4-See Invisibility 1/day per 2 HD.
    6-Dispel Magic 1/day per 5 HD.
    At its sixth Mezzoloth level, its Darkness SLA is upgraded to a Deeper Darkness ability, though it can still choose to use Darkness in place of it from the same pool of uses.
    In addition, after the mezzoloth has gained the Dispel Magic spell-like ability, and gains its tenth hit die, it can cast Teleport and Cloudkill once per day per 5 HD. In addition, its dispel magic Spell-like ability is upgraded into Greater Dispel Magic.
    At its fourteenth HD, it's Teleport SLA is upgraded into Greater Teleport.

    Fiendish Fury
    A mezzoloth is often angry. They eagerly await for the chance to sink their claws into anything capable of being hurt, as if from some sort of twisted hatred of all things. Indeed, a mezzoloth is defined by hate and anger, and they draw power from it.
    At first level, a mezzoloth's anger cannot be quenched. The creature is a veritable bastion of hate and resentment, and due to this, its mind is hard to influence. The mezzoloth gains a +2 bonus to saving throws vs mind affecting abilities.
    In addition, times per day equal to 1/2 HD+charisma modifier, the mezzoloth may use any of the abilities below. These abilities all share the same pool of uses, and are activated as a swift action.
    Tear: The mezzoloth gains the ability to ignore any damage reduction until the end of its round.
    Harm: The mezzoloth gains a bonus to damage equal to its hit dice for all attacks it makes and all damaging spells of spell like abilities it uses until the end of its round.
    Curse: The next spell-like ability gained from mezzoloth levels used is granted a +2 bonus to the save DC.
    Vigor: The mezzoloth gains a bonus equal to half its HD (max) to any physical ability score until the end of its round.
    Pounce: The next charge attack the mezzoloth makes is a pounce, allowing the mezzoloth to make a full attack as a part of the charge.
    Rejuvenation: The mezzoloth gains fast healing equal to its HD for a number of rounds equal to 1/3 its HD (round down).

    Yugoloth
    The Mezzoloth gains a bonus on saves against poison and resistance to acid equal to its HD, and resistance to fire, cold & electricity equal to half HD. It can also see under any kind of darkness, even deeper darkness, as well as telepathy out to 10' per HD.
    It also gains the evil subtype, and its natural attacks and any weapon it wields count as evil aligned for purposes of bypassing DR.

    Spell Resistance
    The Mezzoloth gains SR equal to 11+HD.


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    Mezzoloth, Ala Manual of the Planes. Yugoloths needed more love. This was rather straightforward. I just dropped in the Mezzoloth abilities at suitable intervals and yeah. I did change the SLA:s around a bit and dropped the demon summoning, but otherwise this is mainly straight from the book. It has monklike defenses, but unlike the monk, it can attack quite well, and the spell-likes ensure it stays relevant. I think I nailed this down pretty well, but still. PEACH

    As of now, this has gone through rather heavy overhaul. I did the usual of basing half the abilities of a minor detail from the monster description. It no longer has so many SLA:s, and in general, it should be more unique now.
    Last edited by Frog Dragon; 2011-03-24 at 12:41 AM.
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  14. - Top - End - #1034
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Okay... First. WAY too much str, dex and ability bonuses in general. Don't give a +4 in the start.
    Also, however, overpowered the stat bonuses are, it only gets that and what it does get is mostly in the front. Also, skills are way too much. The bonus feats are just filler. You need to have more Leonally abilities, less ultrastats, less skills, less frontloading.
    Also, three attacks at level one is too much. I've been rained down on this.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog Dragon View Post
    Okay... First. WAY too much str, dex and ability bonuses in general. Don't give a +4 in the start.
    Also, however, overpowered the stat bonuses are, it only gets that and what it does get is mostly in the front. Also, skills are way too much. The bonus feats are just filler. You need to have more Leonally abilities, less ultrastats, less skills, less frontloading.
    Also, three attacks at level one is too much. I've been rained down on this.
    Okay, i put the stat bonuses as is per the MM, my thoughts were a PC equivalent Leonal should roughly be equal to or more powerful than a regular one(being out of the MM) Stat bonuses are just out of the box. I can see the three attacks and that's an easy fix, maybe giving only giving both claws at first (because how would a leonal NOT be able to attack with both) and bite later on. Skills are what an outsider is given per MM. Again balance issues with being compared to a regular leonal. They're not BONUS feats, those are just the rgeular ones. so i guess i can omit them.
    not sure what frontloading is...
    more leonally abilitys...what more can you have it has everything a regular Leonal has.... :(
    Thanks for the remarks, but do you think you could give suggestions also instead of saying how everything sucks?
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  16. - Top - End - #1036
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    Okay, i put the stat bonuses as is per the MM, my thoughts were a PC equivalent Leonal should roughly be equal to or more powerful than a regular one(being out of the MM) Stat bonuses are just out of the box. I can see the three attacks and that's an easy fix, maybe giving only giving both claws at first (because how would a leonal NOT be able to attack with both) and bite later on. Skills are what an outsider is given per MM. Again balance issues with being compared to a regular leonal. They're not BONUS feats, those are just the rgeular ones. so i guess i can omit them.
    not sure what frontloading is...
    more leonally abilitys...what more can you have it has everything a regular Leonal has.... :(
    Thanks for the remarks, but do you think you could give suggestions also instead of saying how everything sucks?
    Look at a few of the other monsters we've done first. My Pyroclastic dragon for example only gets +6 to Stength Constitution and Charisma over 18 levels. The other abilities they get mostly make up for it though. Getting 28 Strength, 24 Constitution and 12 Dexterity over 12 levels is a lot and they get other things.

    Also, abilities generally work off of HD in this thread. One last criticism is that Polymorph and wall of force at will seem to be a bit much.

    I'd give some suggestions but I'm pretty bad at coming up with abilities myself.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-07-27 at 01:12 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    Okay, i put the stat bonuses as is per the MM, my thoughts were a PC equivalent Leonal should roughly be equal to or more powerful than a regular one(being out of the MM) Stat bonuses are just out of the box. I can see the three attacks and that's an easy fix, maybe giving only giving both claws at first (because how would a leonal NOT be able to attack with both) and bite later on. Skills are what an outsider is given per MM. Again balance issues with being compared to a regular leonal. They're not BONUS feats, those are just the rgeular ones. so i guess i can omit them.
    not sure what frontloading is...
    more leonally abilitys...what more can you have it has everything a regular Leonal has.... :(
    Thanks for the remarks, but do you think you could give suggestions also instead of saying how everything sucks?
    Well, it was a short line of critisism. But. Keep in mind that CR isn't automatically balanced as a PC. CR is the fighting potential (skills don't matter much there), but with PC:s it does. Two claws at level one are fine. You shouldn't just take saves bab and skills from outsider. That is pretty much always unbalanced (ya it's wotc, but wotc is usually unbalanced. Pun-Pun is RAW.)
    Anyway, the ábility bonuses need to drop, as per the other monsters here as well as the skills. Maybe to 4+int or 2+int. I'd give it +1 str increases every even level (for a total of +6), and con three con increases, for a total of +3. Maybe a spread out + ones to the mental stats, so you get that too.
    Maybe lower the BAB too.
    Spread the guardinal traits around, don't give them all at level 1. And no +4 to str as a racial trait. [Cartman]It's wrong.[/Cartman]
    With that, you might not even need more abilities given that you have spell likes. But yeah, that's what I'd do. As is, this is very, very overpowered.
    Edit: Frontloading means that you get too much stuff at levels 1-3.
    Last edited by Frog Dragon; 2010-07-27 at 01:17 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Frog Dragon:Hmm, nice work but needs some tweaking.
    -DR should be /good, not /magic and please make it half HD as usual.
    -Make SLAs scale by level. Save DCs 10+1/2HD+stat as usual and extra uses as it increases HD beyond the class, dispel magic upgrades to greater dispel magic, ect. Remember, the abilities have to stay relevant all to lv20.
    -First levels kinda empty. Some of the weaker SLAs at 1st and/or 2nd level wouldn't hurt anyone
    -It needs teleport/greater teleport somewhere in there.
    -Don't be afraid to give powerfull SLAs at lower levels than a wizard would get it as long as it isn't spammable. Cloudkill as the capstone would probably be fine.
    -All good saves and full BAB should be reserved for monsters with some drawback like the phoenix who doesn't have hands. Cut one of the saves.
    -It could use a few more stat bonus increases (con or cha).

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    Okay, i put the stat bonuses as is per the MM, my thoughts were a PC equivalent Leonal should roughly be equal to or more powerful than a regular one(being out of the MM) Stat bonuses are just out of the box.
    This already has been discussed plenty of times but I guess it must be done once more. Players have LOTS of advantages over monsters already, mainly:
    -PCs get point buy/roll stats, while monsters have a base of just 10 or 11 in everything.
    -PCs get a lot more magic gear than monsters.
    -PCs have the time to optimize their feats, flaws, skills, ect.
    -PCs have a party of equally powerfull characters backing them up.
    -Monsters are suposed to last a few rounds. Players are suposed to last an entire campaign.

    So no, if you give a PC direct monster stats from the MM you end up with an way overpowered PC.

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    Thanks for the remarks, but do you think you could give suggestions also instead of saying how everything sucks?
    Read the guidelines in the first post of the thread. Look at the other monsters already done. Make the abilities scale by level. Think a moment about balance.
    Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-07-27 at 01:19 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Sla's edited. Reflex dropped to poor. However, I don't think it needs more stuff at first level. It gets a respectable will save, natural armor, two claws and barbarian speed already. That is mainly why I didn't give it SLA:s until level three. I quite like it right now.
    I would've given it more cha or con, but I can't figure out a way to put it in logically. Maybe +1 to Cha at level 4 and a +1 to Con at level 6?
    I gave the sla's a boost, but I think Cloudkill should stay at level 9. It now gets Teleport and Greater Teleport as it advances, in addition to GDM.
    I think the first level just seems empty. In reality it's giving you plently of bonuses.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Ohkayyyy... I've added an upgrade mechanic to the Iron Golem, as well as taking away a few of the penalties. It's covered in the changelog.

    Fixed the force golem too. A couple of abilities to pad the loss of skills & reflex saves, and better ability score bonuses should make it work well.
    Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-07-27 at 08:22 PM.
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    HD:d8
    {table]Level|Bab|Fort|Ref|Will|Feature
    1|+ 1|+ 0|+ 2| +2 |Desert Body, Marruspawn
    2|+2 |+ 0|+ 3| +3 |Marru Wizard-Lord, +1 Int
    3|+ 3|+ 1|+3 | +3 |Howl of Healing, Expanded Mind +1
    4|+ 4|+ 1|+ 4| + 4|Marru Tactician, +1 Int
    5|+ 5|+ 1|+4 | +4 |Mighty Howl, Expanded Mind +2
    [/table]
    Skills: 4+int modifier, quadruple at 1st level. The Marrutact’s class skills (and the key ability for each skills) are Concentration, Diplomacy, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (Any), Listen, Move Silently, & Spellcraft.

    Proefeciencies:Simple weapons.

    Features
    Desert Body:At 1st level a Marrutact loses all racial bonus he had and gains monstruous humanoid traits (basically darkvision 60'). He is a medium monstruous humanoid with base speed 30.

    A marrutact gains a bonus to natural armor equal to his wisdom modifier.

    Marruspawn: The Marrutact gains regular Marruspawn features, which include resistance to dessication and a bonus to listen checks equal to its HD, resistance to fire equal to 1/2 its HD, and the discriminating hearing ability (ex):
    A marruspawn can detect the presence of creatures within 30' simply by the sound of their breathing, heartbeat or movements. This only indicates its presence, not its location: it can take a move action to hone into the creature's direction, and can pinpoint the location of creatures within 5 feet of the marruspawn.

    Ability increase:At 2nd & 4th level the Marrutact gains +1 to intelligence, for a total of +2. Also see the expanded mind ability, below.

    Marru Wizard Lord: The Marrutact gains spellcasting as a wizard of its level-1, and SR of 11+HD.

    Howl of Healing: As a free action once per day per 3 HD (up to 6 times per day at 18 HD) the marrutact may, no more than once per round, loose a regenerative howl that heals all allies within 30 feet a number equal to the charisma modifier (minimum 1) times the HD of the marrutact. Those within 10 feet heal an additional 1 hp per HD of the marrutact.

    Expanded Mind: At 3rd level, the marrutact gains a +1 bonus to either charisma or wisdom. This bonus increases to +2 at level 5.

    Marru Tactician: The Marrutact can combine his leadership skills and vast intellect, and put them to good use. A number of times per day equal to his wisdom modifier (minimum of 1), the marrutact may expend a move action to make a knowledge check against whatever he may be facing: local for monstrous humanoids, arcane for magical beasts and dragons, Architecture/Engineering for constructs, dungeoneering for aberrations & oozes, the planes for outsiders & elementals, nature for animals & fey, nobility & royalty for humanoids, and geography for giants. The DC of this knowledge check is 15. If he succeeds, all allies within 30 feet gain a +1 bonus to attacks against the creature (or creatures, if there are multiple creatures of the same race). This bonus increases by an additional 1 for every 10 points the marrutact succeeds by.
    Starting at 8th level, the marrutact may instead grant a +1 bonus to saves against the creature's abilities, plus an additional one for every 10 points the marrutact succeeds by.
    Starting at 11th level, the marrutact may instead grant +1d6 damage to attacks against the creature, plus an additional 1d6 for every 10 points the marrutact succeeds by.
    Starting at 14th level, the marrutact may instead grant a +1 bonus to AC against the creature's attacks, plus an additional one for every 10 points he succeeds by.
    Starting at 17th level, the marrutact may instead grant a +1 bonus to save DCs against the creature, plus an additional 1 for every 10 points he succeeds by.

    Mighty Howl: When using his healing howl, all enemies caught in the radius must succeed on a will save (DC 10+1/2 HD+cha mod) or be shaken for a number of rounds equal to the marrutact's charisma modifier. If the enemy has less than 1/2 the HD the marrutact has, they are instead frightened for that duration.


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    Whoo, anubis-wizards. This is a fun one. He's pretty much just your standard wizard, but with full BAB and better saves and skills, and then the healing howl and dark knowledge tactician ability that totally wasn't ripped off from another base class. In return, he loses a CL. I really just balanced this against the ethergaunt, and I'd say it's less powerful, so if the ethergaunt is good, this one's definitely good.
    I wanted to include something on his high charisma and wisdom, so I just made him MAD and gave some bonuses- you can either focus on tactics and natural armor, or the howl. Wisdom's probably a better choice, but the healing howl can get good if you pump charisma, and it'll still be good with low charisma, just for stabilizations.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Marrutact

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    HD:d8
    {table]Level|Bab|Fort|Ref|Will|Feature
    1|+ 1|+ 0|+ 2| +2 |Desert Body, Marruspawn
    2|+2 |+ 0|+ 3| +3 |Marru Wizard-Lord, +1 Int
    3|+ 3|+ 1|+3 | +3 |Howl of Healing, Expanded Mind +1
    4|+ 4|+ 1|+ 4| + 4|Marru Tactician, +1 Int
    5|+ 5|+ 1|+4 | +4 |Mighty Howl, Expanded Mind +2
    [/table]
    Skills: 4+int modifier, quadruple at 1st level. The Marrutact’s class skills (and the key ability for each skills) are Concentration, Diplomacy, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (Any), Listen, Move Silently, & Spellcraft.

    Proefeciencies:Simple weapons.

    Features
    Desert Body:At 1st level a Marrutact loses all racial bonus he had and gains monstruous humanoid traits (basically darkvision 60'). He is a medium monstruous humanoid with base speed 30.

    A marrutact gains a bonus to natural armor equal to his wisdom modifier.

    Marruspawn: The Marrutact gains regular Marruspawn features, which include resistance to dessication and a bonus to listen checks equal to its HD, resistance to fire equal to 1/2 its HD, and the discriminating hearing ability (ex):
    A marruspawn can detect the presence of creatures within 30' simply by the sound of their breathing, heartbeat or movements. This only indicates its presence, not its location: it can take a move action to hone into the creature's direction, and can pinpoint the location of creatures within 5 feet of the marruspawn.

    Ability increase:At 2nd & 4th level the Marrutact gains +1 to intelligence, for a total of +2. Also see the expanded mind ability, below.

    Marru Wizard Lord: The Marrutact gains spellcasting as a wizard of its level-1, and SR of 11+HD.

    Howl of Healing: As a free action once per day per 3 HD (up to 6 times per day at 18 HD) the marrutact may, no more than once per round, loose a regenerative howl that heals all allies within 30 feet a number equal to the charisma modifier (minimum 1) times the HD of the marrutact. Those within 10 feet heal an additional 1 hp per HD of the marrutact.

    Expanded Mind: At 3rd level, the marrutact gains a +1 bonus to either charisma or wisdom. This bonus increases to +2 at level 5.

    Marru Tactician: The Marrutact can combine his leadership skills and vast intellect, and put them to good use. A number of times per day equal to his wisdom modifier (minimum of 1), the marrutact may expend a move action to make a knowledge check against whatever he may be facing: local for monstrous humanoids, arcane for magical beasts and dragons, Architecture/Engineering for constructs, dungeoneering for aberrations & oozes, the planes for outsiders & elementals, nature for animals & fey, nobility & royalty for humanoids, and geography for giants. The DC of this knowledge check is 15. If he succeeds, all allies within 30 feet gain a +1 bonus to attacks against the creature (or creatures, if there are multiple creatures of the same race). This bonus increases by an additional 1 for every 10 points the marrutact succeeds by.
    Starting at 8th level, the marrutact may instead grant a +1 bonus to saves against the creature's abilities, plus an additional one for every 10 points the marrutact succeeds by.
    Starting at 11th level, the marrutact may instead grant +1d6 damage to attacks against the creature, plus an additional 1d6 for every 10 points the marrutact succeeds by.
    Starting at 14th level, the marrutact may instead grant a +1 bonus to AC against the creature's attacks, plus an additional one for every 10 points he succeeds by.
    Starting at 17th level, the marrutact may instead grant a +1 bonus to save DCs against the creature, plus an additional 1 for every 10 points he succeeds by.

    Mighty Howl: When using his healing howl, all enemies caught in the radius must succeed on a will save (DC 10+1/2 HD+cha mod) or be shaken for a number of rounds equal to the marrutact's charisma modifier. If the enemy has less than 1/2 the HD the marrutact has, they are instead frightened for that duration.


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    Whoo, anubis-wizards. This is a fun one. He's pretty much just your standard wizard, but with full BAB and better saves and skills, and then the healing howl and dark knowledge tactician ability that totally wasn't ripped off from another base class. In return, he loses a CL. I really just balanced this against the ethergaunt, and I'd say it's less powerful, so if the ethergaunt is good, this one's definitely good.
    I wanted to include something on his high charisma and wisdom, so I just made him MAD and gave some bonuses- you can either focus on tactics and natural armor, or the howl. Wisdom's probably a better choice, but the healing howl can get good if you pump charisma, and it'll still be good with low charisma, just for stabilizations.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Has anyone put forward a play version of the Gelatinous Cube? Or any of the various types of Oozes? Just a thought that would be interesting.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    @Un_Known: That's a job for a better man than me. Oozes are going to be hard.

    @BelGareth: Well, since it seems nobody will critique your work, I will... though it is rather vexing that, in each picture, you chose to make the creature that I really, really don't like, as opposed to the creature that I really, really like (Ghaeles are, by far, the coolest celestials.)
    ...Anyways. >.>

    *In general, we're trying to standardize things here: might want to look at other classes and do things the same way as everyone else. There should be a first level ability, say, for the leonal called "body of the lion" or something like that, where he "loses all previous racial traits, gains outsider type, move speed, etc."
    Natural armor is usually tied to an ability score- usually constitution modifier.

    *Your saves are highly nonstandard: make it either good saves, or poor saves.

    *Try to put abilities in order of when they're acquired.

    *Creatures usually gain DR or energy resistance equal to their HD/2, or equal to HD if it's really, really high DR or energy resistance. Solid numbers are boring, but DR 4 at level 20 is pretty much worthless. Hell, DR 10 at level 20 is pretty much worthless, unless it's DR 10/-.

    *Dead levels suck. For the leonal, it needs something at level 10. Either spread out an ability, or give it a new ability. And a level where the only thing you get is +1 str is pretty boring as well. Also, in general, we like to give stats in increments of +1, as opposed to +2.

    *SR is weak. It's generally granted at level 2.

    *Try something fun! Is there an ability you think the leonal should have, but he doesn't have? Then give him one! It should help fill up that dead level.

    Now, for the separate races:
    Leonal:
    *Include natural attacks into the racial abilities.

    *Try basing things off of HD: make speed increase by 10 every 4 HD, rather than every 4 leonal levels. Here at improved monster classes, we like things that scale by HD.

    *Why are you giving the leonal charisma? Generally, it's good to cut down on ability scores, except for the ones that define a race, or if it needs the ability scores to be competent. I'd give a higher con bonus, and cut out the charisma bonus. This is a bruiser, not a face.

    Bralani:
    *Scale, scale, scale! Make the SLA dailies based off of HD, and definitely scale the whirlwind blast.
    *Suspend the SLAs a level, give the resistances/SR earlier.


    It's a good start, and outsiders are nice for a first time as they have a lot of juicy abilities to work off of, but it needs a lot of cleaning up formatting and some variety. Add your own touch: look at my entomber, or vrock, or marrutact (which still needs critiquing, everyone!). Certainly look at Hyrudra's Harpy, which is really a great example of making a boring race interesting.
    This is more for the leonal than the bralani: maybe, I donno, give it some lion-based abilities, like all lions treat them as friendly, or maybe even transforming into a lion for some scaling strength/dexterity bonuses.
    Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-07-29 at 03:51 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Natural armour's usually based off Con, not Str.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by volthawk View Post
    Natural armour's usually based off Con, not Str.
    ...GODDAMMIT. I ALWAYS think it's strength. I DON'T KNOW WHY.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Undead and Constructs use Strength because they don't have a Constitution score. Is that maybe why you get mixed up?
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndworm View Post
    Undead and Constructs use Strength because they don't have a Constitution score. Is that maybe why you get mixed up?
    No, no, I was doing that long before I did constructs...
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Hyrudra's Harpy, which is really a great example of making a boring race interesting.
    Aw, shucks. (Even if you spelled my name wrong).

    And I agree with the sentiments you listed.

    In general, though I don't know that it's explicitly stated in the OP, we're trying to make every level of a given monster class worthwhile and interesting. Dead levels are to be avoided.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Planetouched

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    HD: D8
    {table]Level|Bab|Fort|Ref|Will|Feature
    1|+ 1|+0|+0|+2 |Planar Body, Planetouched, Gifted
    [/table]
    Skills: 4+int modifier, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills are Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Disguise, Heal, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (Any), Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival, UMD.

    Proefeciencies: Planetouched are proficient with simple and martial weapons, light armor, and no shields.

    Features
    Planar Body:At 1st level a Planetouched loses all racial bonuses it had and gains outsider traits, base speed 30 ft. and darkvision 60'.

    Planetouched: The Planetouched are a varied lot- each is different, there being hundreds of possible ancestors. They choose 3 of the below abilities. Note that abilities cannot be taken more than once.
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    *A bonus to three skills equal to 1/2 the planetouched's HD.
    *Two energy resistances (from acid, cold, electricity, fire or sonic) equal to 1/2 the planetouched's HD.
    *DR/material or alignment equal to 1/2 HD. This improves to DR/ material or DR/alignment (planetouched's choice) at 6 HD, and DR/material and alignment at 12 HD. (Note that materials allowed include cold iron, silver, or adamantium.)
    *Good or Evil and Lawful or Chaotic subtypes. All attacks are imbued with the alignments for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction and similar effects. Spells that have the chosen alignment as a subtype are cast at +1 Caster Level.
    *An elemental subtype, including all bonuses and penalties as in the SRD, and all melee attacks deal additional elemental damage (acid for earth, cold for cold, fire for fire and electricity for air) equal to 1/2 HD, and all spells with the elemental subtype are cast at +1 CL. Those with water subtypes do not gain a damage bonus.
    *Natural armor equal to the planetouched's con modifier, and two claws as natural attacks that deal 1d4+strength modifier damage.
    *The Planetouched chooses any domain. He can cast any spell of a level no higher than 1/2 his HD from this domain once per day as an SLA, with a CL equal to his HD. Gaining more spells does not grant more uses, just more options for the single use. DCs are (10+1/2HD+Cha).
    At 7 HD, the planetouched may cast the SLAs twice per day; at 15 HD, three times.


    Gifted: The planetouched gains +1 to two attributes, or +2 to one attribute.
    Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-11-10 at 06:24 PM.
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