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  1. - Top - End - #931
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Does the hook horror's AC only increase during monster class levels, or does it increase afterwards, every even level?

  2. - Top - End - #932
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    On the monster levels only.
    Frog in the playground.

    My homebrewer's extended signature.

    I have Str 5!

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Wall of text attacks! CRITS!

  3. - Top - End - #933
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    Hyudra's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog Dragon View Post
    Hook Horror
    You say it gains darkvision out to 60', then you say its normal vision is limited to 10'.

    You don't list it's base movement speed.

    I'd consider making the blindsense a separate ability, so the Body of Horror blurb isn't such a block of text.

    If you want natural armor that matters, I'd have it continue to get more after it stops taking levels in the class. After all, losing fine manipulation is pretty rough. (I mean, an unlocked door with a doorknob blocks your path).

    As it's a pretty vanilla melee monster, with no fine manipulation (and thus, reliance on a fairly one dimensional attack method), I'd consider giving it a full BAB and sporadic strength increases (Say, 2nd, 4th and 6th levels).
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-07-14 at 11:44 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #934
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    needs should have abilities that scale with level, judging by recent experience.

    I might take the first level of this, then follow it up with something so that I lose "body of horror", like, say, troll, and then come back to hook horror, to gain all the abilities, and the +5 str bonus.

    by doing this, I sacrifice 1 str, natural armor, bonus to hide underground, claw attacks, and nice vision types. I get rid of blindness, loss of ability to use hands, and short standard vision.

    Troll grants the claw attacks I would lose, and the str bonus, not to mention regeneration, and then this gives me nice stuff like +5 str, power sunder, and another growth. If I then take stuff to Improve my natural claw attacks from troll, and maybe bite damage as well, this could be really abused.

    Body of horror really needs more positive buffs to make killing it not worthwhile.
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  5. - Top - End - #935
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    Gorgondantess's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    When making a monster class, you generally want to ask yourself, "why would I want to take this class?" For the hooked horror above... honestly, I can't find a reason, unless its the fluff. It's pretty good at melee, granted... but pretty good. It's not a melee monster- a decent lion totem barbarian is just as good, if not better. Add in the loss of fine manipulation, and you're not getting anything out of the class you couldn't get by becoming a weretiger and just staying in hybrid form- in fact, you're getting a bit less, all in all. blindsight's great and all, but that's balanced by 10' vision, nobody sunders (ever), so then you've got improved grab. Whoop-de-freakin'-do. Weretiger gives me pounce & rake, as well as bonus feats, DR/silver, and better ability score bonuses, all for just another +2 LA. Add in its versatility (which is very valuable in D&D) and it's a much better choice.
    Now, I'm not saying it's hopeless... I'm saying it could use a little work is all. As is, all of its abilities are quite generic (except for the sunder, but we've already gone over that). Look at the fluff, give it some cool stuff... maybe some weird harpoon-like thing with the hooks when he grapples- the enemy takes some hefty damage when they escape the grapple, because they're ripping themselves off of its big, jagged hooks. That would synergize well, eh?
    Oh, and you might want to make a homebrew feat, like...

    Evolved appendages [Aberrant]
    Requirements: Hands incapable of manipulation, aberrant type.

    The creature is now capable of manipulation, but takes a -4 penalty to all skill & ability checks requiring fine manipulation, such as disable device, sleight of hand, and open lock. All spells cast with somatic components have a 20% chance of failure. This feat may be taken a second time to remove these penalties.
    Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-07-14 at 12:02 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #936
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    Hyudra's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Well said, Gorgon. There's not a lot about the Hook Horror that would make me want to play it. It's just a little one-dimensional. It'd be solid in a combat where it could grapple an opponent, but once freedom of movement rings are on half the humanoids you fight, and when you're fighting monsters one or two size categories larger than yourself, you're not going to be able to grab. Take away the grabbing and you've got a fairly mediocre combatant.

  7. - Top - End - #937
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    I gave it the troll's rend, for a start. Will look into more stuff.
    It now gets DR/- too.
    Last edited by Frog Dragon; 2010-07-14 at 12:42 PM.
    Frog in the playground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Wall of text attacks! CRITS!

  8. - Top - End - #938

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by flabort View Post
    needs should have abilities that scale with level, judging by recent experience.
    Indeed, it's fine and dandy for monsters to be locked in place, but PCs are expected to grow stronger. Also too one dimensional, wich isn't good for a 6 levels monster class.

    Some sugestions:
    -Make reach increase, making it able to "extend" his hooks.
    -Blindsight should keep increasing too if all levels are taken.
    -Anti-freedom of movement thingy so it keeps his basic trick viable?
    -Able to "envelop" both creatures much smaller and much bigger?

    Quote Originally Posted by flabort View Post
    I might take the first level of this, then follow it up with something so that I lose "body of horror", like, say, troll, and then come back to hook horror, to gain all the abilities, and the +5 str bonus.
    Ahem, I make it clear in the first post the creatures here aren't suposed to multiclass with each other. I can't really stop you from doing it but do so at your own risk.

  9. - Top - End - #939
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Gestalt two monster classes? That could be fun..
    DnD Me
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    Neutral Evil Human Sorcerer/Rogue (1st/1st Level)
    Ability Scores:
    Strength-13
    Dexterity-12
    Constitution-12
    Intelligence-15
    Wisdom-11
    Charisma-13

  10. - Top - End - #940
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    I like Oslecamo's idea of extended reach. I took a very similar approach to the freedom of movement conundrum with my stone giant (Stony Grip).

    Also, I like the picture. I tend to spend a while finding a good picture for my monsters (Bugged that the annis hag picture is less than stellar, though I like the harpy, which took me over two hours to find).
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-07-14 at 01:32 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #941
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    I like Oslecamo's idea of extended reach. I took a very similar approach to the freedom of movement conundrum with my stone giant (Stony Grip).

    Also, I like the picture. I tend to spend a while finding a good picture for my monsters (Bugged that the annis hag picture is less than stellar, though I like the harpy, which took me over two hours to find).
    This is useful if the monster's been illustrated in a book.

  12. - Top - End - #942
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Yeah, that's usually one of the first places I check, but the harpy picture was poor at best, the 4e Harpy was less than satisfactory, and the Annis hag was absent from any of the books, as far as I could tell.

  13. - Top - End - #943
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Can I please request the Purple Dragon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelonius View Post
    Well, strangely enough a faction with Reputation 0 and history of past betrayals proved itself to be rather untrustworthy. My hat is off for the Mothriders.

    Damn, about 29 stats in one swipe. Since I'm clearly the next I'm booby-trapping every inch of the Maze.

  14. - Top - End - #944
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by nolispe View Post
    Can I please request the Purple Dragon?
    You may, but dragons are a right pain to do, so I recommend being prepared for a bit of a wait, or just doing it yourself and getting assistance here as you go.

  15. - Top - End - #945
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Achaierai

    The Achaierai, in all its chicken-headed glory.
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    HD:d8
    {table]Level|Bab|Fort|Ref|Will|Feature
    1|+0 |+ 2|+ 2| + 0|Not A Chicken
    2|+ 1|+3 |+ 3| +0 |Skirmishing Chicken, +1 Str
    3|+ 2|+3 |+ 3| +1 |Could a Chicken Resist That?, Black Cloud
    4|+ 3|+4 |+ 4| +1 |Speed Boost, +1 Str
    5|+3|+ 4|+ 4| +1 |Definitely Not A Chicken, El Diablo-Pollo Loco

    [/table]
    Skills:4+int modifier per level, quadruple at 1st level. Its class skills are Balance, Climb, Listen, Move Silently, Hide, Jump, Spot, and Tumble.

    Proficiencies:
    It's own natural weapons.

    Not A Chicken:at first level loses all other racial bonus and gains outsider traits (basicaly darkvision 60 feet), with the evil and lawful subtypes. It's a medium sized outsider with base speed 40, two natural claw attacks dealing 1d8+half Str mod each and a bite attack dealing 1d8+Str mod. He takes no penalty for attacking with both claws in a fullattack, but takes a -5 penalty on the claw attacks if used together with the bite as secondary and primary natural attacks, respectively.

    An Achaierai gains a bonus to natural armor equal to its Con bonus.

    Ability Score Increases: The Achaierai gains +1 Str at every even level.

    Skirmishing Chicken: The Achaierai gains spring attack as a bonus feat. It does not have to meet the prerequisites for this feat.

    Black Cloud: (su) HD/3 times per day as a swift action, the Achaierai may release a choking, toxic black cloud. Those other than achaierai within 10 feet instantly take 1d6 points of damage. This damage increases to 2d6 at 6 HD, and by another 1d6 every 3 HD thereafter, up to 6d6 at level 18.

    Could a Chicken Resist That?: The Achaierai gains SR equal to 11+HD.

    Speed Boost: The Achaierai's land speed increases by 10, to 50. It increases to 60 at 8 HD, and by an additional 10 at every 4 HD thereafter, up to 90 at level 20.

    Definitely Not A Chicken: The Achaierai grows to large size, and it's bite attack's damage increases to 4d6+Str mod (taking into account the large size). When attacking as a standard action, the bite attack damage increases to 4d6+1.5xstr mod.

    El Diablo-Pollo Loco: All enemies damaged by the Achaierai's Black Cloud must make a will save (DC 10+1/2 HD+ Achaierai's Con mod) or be affected as if by an insanity spell for 3 hours (CL= Achaierai's HD).


    Comments:
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    Flavor-wise... Don't ask. For god's sakes, don't ask.
    Mechanically, it's basically the same as the original, but I gave it a little more focus on the skirmishing- leap in with spring attack, black cloud, nail 'em with the ridiculously high bite damage, leap out. Switched the primary natural attack to bite, and gave it something to support skirmishing bites. Oh, and of course, black cloud damage scales.
    As is, I'm thinking it might be a tad weak... but I really don't want to mess with it any more tonight. 'Sides, it's not entirely serious.
    Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-07-15 at 01:54 PM.
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  16. - Top - End - #946
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    @ Nolispe about the purple dragon.

    One, you should mention what book its from.
    two.The SLAs seem to come really late, and they get a huge jump in frequency. The growth should be a bit more gradual than that. You could insert them at 8th level and there shouldn't be a problem
    three. The Spell resistance should be HD+11 and the dragon doesn't seem to get DR at all


    Right now, you have too many levels where oyu don't get anything too interesting (Stat boosts) and I'd say the dragon is actually weaker than just about any other dragon that's been posted. Not sure about wing dragon though.

    EDIT: the SLAs just took a drop unless I misread. That doesn't really help.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-07-15 at 05:16 AM.

  17. - Top - End - #947
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Also, table.
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Dragon body, Arcane blood, +1 Str

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Cha +1

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Str +1, Cha +1

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Wings

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Growth, Breath Weapon

    6th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Night Flier, +1 Cha

    7th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |+1 Str

    8th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |+1 Str

    9th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |Purple Dragon SLA's 1/day

    10th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |+1 Cha

    11th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Tail Slap

    12th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |+1 Str, +1 Cha

    13th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Growth, Frightful presence

    14th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |Spell resistance

    15th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |+1 Cha

    16th|
    +16/+11/+6/+1
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |+1 Str

    17th|
    +17/+12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Crush, +1 Cha

    18th|
    +18/+13/+8/+3
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |+1 Str

    19th|
    +19/+14/+9/+4
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |Purple Dragon SLA's 3/day +1 Str, +1 Cha

    20th|
    +20/+15/+10/+5
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |Growth, tail sweep[/table]

    But yeah, currently it's quite boring and very underwhelming.
    Last edited by Frog Dragon; 2010-07-15 at 05:36 AM.
    Frog in the playground.

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  18. - Top - End - #948

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Purple dragon:


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    HD:d12
    {TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
    1 | +1 | +2|+0 |+2 |Purple Dragon body, Arcane blood
    2| +2| +3|+0 |+3 | Keen senses, Energy Breath
    3| +3| +3|+1| +3| Blindsense 60 feets, Pyrochnetics Str+1
    4| +4| +4| +1|+4 | Wings
    5| +5| +4| +1| +4| Tail slap, Growth
    6| +6| +5|+2 |+5 | Night flier, +1 Cha
    7| +7| +5| +2| +5| +1 Str, +1 Con, Purple Fiction
    8| +8| +6| +2| +5| Heat Metal, Gust of Wind, +1 Cha
    9| +9| +6|+3 |+6| +1 str, +1 con, Sugestion, Fire Shield.
    10| +10| +7|+3 |+7 | Night Lord, +1 Cha
    11| +11| +7| +3|+7 | Arcane Skin
    12| +12| +8| +4|+8 | Iron Scales, +1 Str
    13| +13| +8| +4| +8| Growth, crush, Frightfull presence
    14| +14| +9| +4| +9| +1 Str, +1 Con, Cunning Lord
    15| +15| +9| +5| +9| Blinding Burst
    16| +16| +10| +5| +10| +1 str, +1 con, Submit
    17| +17| +10| +5|+10 | Energy blade, +1 Cha
    18| +18| +11|+6 |+11 | +1 str, +1 con, Purple Fiction
    19 | +19| +11| +6| +11| Wall of force,
    20| +20| +12| +6| +12| Growth, tail sweep, Dark Ruler

    [/TABLE]
    4 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills: Concentration, climb, jump, spot, listen, apraise, intimidate, Knowledge(any), hide, move silently, spellcraft.

    Proefeciencies: a purple dragon isn't proefecient with any armor or weapons, besides his own natural weapons.


    Features:

    Dragon Body:
    The purple dragon loses all other racial bonuses, and gains Dragon traits, bite 1d8 damage, 2 claws attack for 1d6 damage each and 40 base speed, burrow speed equal to half it's base speed, and is medium sized. The purple dragon has wings, but they're too weak to do anything for now. His claws are capable of fine manipulation and can be used for somatic components of spellcasting or anything else a human hand could do.

    The purple dragon also gets a natural armor bonus equal to it's Con modifier. Whenever the purple dragon grows one size category, his natural armor increases by a further 1.


    Arcane Blood:
    A purple dragon receives spells known and spells per day as a bard of same level, but he casts as a sorceror and takes his spells known from the sorceror/wizard spell list.

    If it multiclasses as a bard it's spellcasting increases as a bard.
    If it multiclasses as a sorceror it counts as already having sorceror casting depending on it's dragon level, as shown on the following table.

    {table]Dragon level | Virtual sorceror casting
    1|-
    2|1
    3|2
    4|3
    5|4
    6|5
    7|6
    8|6
    9|7
    10|8
    11|8
    12|9
    13|10
    14|10
    15|11
    16|12
    17|12
    18|13
    19|13
    20|13
    [/table]

    So for example a dragon 2 who takes a level of sorceror would count as already having 1 level of sorceror and gains the spell slots and spell knowns that a sorceror gains when leveling from level 1 to 2, but not the spell slots and spell knowns from the 1st level of sorceror. He would get the familiar ability, but dragon levels wouldn't count for it.

    A dragon 18 who takes a level of sorceror would count as having 14 levels of sorceror(13+1) and gain the spell slots and spell knowns that a sorceror gains when leveling from level 13 to 14, but not the spell slots and spell knowns that a sorceror gets from level 1 to 13, He would get the familiar ability, but dragon levels wouldn't count for it.

    His Caster level remains equal to his full HD when multiclassing to sorceror.

    If a dragon takes a casting prc, it may choose to advance his casting as that of a sorceror. So a dragon 10/loremaster 10 would cast as a 18th level sorceror (he would still receive spell slots and spells knowns from a bard 10 from the first 10 dragon levels and then the spell slots and spell knowns from a sorceror 11-18 for the loremaster levels)

    Keen senses:The purple dragon sees four times as well as a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. It also has darkvision out to 120 feet.

    Energy Breath:
    cone 30 feet dealing 1d6 fire damage/HD with DC ref of 10+1/2 HD+Con modifier for half every 1d4 turns. Cone increases by 5 feets with each extra HD the player takes from here.


    Blindsense:
    as the normal ability, range 60 feets.

    Purple dragon SLAs: At 3rd level the purple dragon can use pyrochnetics as a SLA 1/day for ever 3 HD it has.

    At 8th level it can use Heat Metal and gust of wind as SLAs, 1/day for each 2HD it has.

    At 9th level it can use fire shield(fire version only) and Sugestion 1/day for every 3 HD it has.

    Save DCs are 10+1/2 HD +Cha mod.

    Ability score increase: The purple dragon ability scores increase by the shown amount.

    {table]Level | Total bonus gained
    3 | +1 Str,
    6 | +1 Str, +1 Cha
    7 | +2 Str, +1 Con, +1 Cha
    8 | +2 Str, +1 Con, +2 Cha
    9 | +3 Str, +2 Con, +2 Cha
    10 | +3 Str, +2 Con, +3 Cha
    12 | +4 Str, +2 Con, +3 Cha
    12 | +5 Str, +3 Con, +3 Cha
    16 | +6 Str, +4 Con, +3 Cha
    17 | +6 Str, +4 Con, +4 Cha
    18 | +7 Str, +5 Con, +4 Cha

    [/table]
    NOTE:this table presents the TOTAL bonus gained for ease of keeping count! Don't add the values from diferent levels!


    Wings:
    At 4th level the purple dragon becomes able to fly at the speed of 10 feets per HD, with poor maneuverability. The maneuverability doesn't increase naturaly, but players can take the Savage Species feat that increases it by two steps(stackable). Each wing can also be now used to deliver a natural atack dealing 1d4 damage.

    Growth:
    At 5th level the purple dragon grows to large size.
    At 13th level the purple dragon grows to huge size.
    At 20th level the purple dragon grows to gargantuan size.

    His AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change acordingly, but he doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties.(see table at the 1st post for details)

    Tail slap:
    The purple dragon can now make a tail slap attack dealing 1d8 damage(already taking in acount large size).

    Night flier:
    At night time, the shaddow dragon can blend with the sky, being able to use the hide skill while airborne even if it has nothing to hide behind, and ignoring size penalties for hiding while doing so.

    Purple Fiction:
    At 7th and 16th levels the Purple dragon adds any spell of the enchantment school from a level he can cast to his list of spells known.

    Night Lord:At 10th level the purple dragon casts spells from the enchantment school at +1 Caster level and ignores any limit on caster level on such spells.


    Arcane skin:
    At 11th level the purple dragon gains SR equal to his HD+11.

    Iron Scales:
    At 12th level the purple dragon gains DR/magic equal to half his HD.

    Crush: At 13th level the dragon can make a crush attack dealing 2d8 damage base, already taking in acount huge size
    Spoiler
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    This special attack allows a flying or jumping dragon of at least Huge size to land on opponents as a standard action, using its whole body to crush them. Crush attacks are effective only against opponents three or more size categories smaller than the dragon (though it can attempt normal overrun or grapple attacks against larger opponents).

    A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the dragon’s body. Creatures in the affected area must succeed on a Reflex save (DC equal to that of the dragon’s breath weapon) or be pinned, automatically taking bludgeoning damage during the next round unless the dragon moves off them. If the dragon chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. Pinned opponents take damage from the crush each round if they don’t escape.

    A crush attack deals the indicated damage plus 1˝ times the dragon’s Strength bonus (round down).


    frightfull presence:
    The ability takes effect automatically whenever the dragon attacks, charges, or flies overhead. Oponents within a radius of 30 feet × half the dragon's level are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD than the dragon. A potentially affected oponent that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + ˝ dragon’s HD + dragon’s Cha modifier) remains immune to that dragon’s frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, oponents with 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. Dragons ignore the frightful presence of other dragons.

    Blinding burst:
    Instead of his normal breath, the purple dragon may release a flash of energy. Everybody whitin a burst of 5 foot per purple dragon HD must make a fort save with the same DC as the breath weapon or be permanently blinded.

    Energy blade:
    The purple dragon focuses his breat weapon on a blade of energy that has the same reach as his bite attack and deals half the damage of the normal breath. This attack doesn't allow saves but the dragon must suceed in a melee touch attack to use it. The purple dragon doesn't add his force modifier or power attack to the damage but can make iterative attacks with the blade of energy if it has enough Bab and is full attacking. Blade of energy can be combined with the other natural weapons of the purple dragon except the bite attack.

    Cunning Lord: At 14th level the Purple dragon gains a bonus equal to 1/4 it's HD on all Cha and Int based skills, and counts as having at least 1 rank on all knowledge skills.

    Submit:
    At 16th level the Purple dragon knows well how to strike terror on his oponents by slaying his friends. Whenever the purple dragon kills a creature all of it's allies whitin sight must make a Will Save DC 10+1/2 HD+Cha mod or take a penalty on saves, AC, skills and ability checks against the purple dragon equal to 1/4 it's HD. This is a fear mind affecting effect, and slaying multiple allies doesn't stack.

    Wall of force: At 19th level the purple dragon can now use wall of force as a SLA 1/day for each 6 HD it has.


    Tail sweep:
    At 20th level, this special attack allows a dragon of at least Gargantuan size to sweep with its tail as a standard action. The sweep affects a half-circle with a radius of 30 feet (or 40 feet for a Colossal dragon), extending from an intersection on the edge of the dragon’s space in any direction. Creatures within the swept area are affected if they are four or more size categories smaller than the dragon. A tail sweep automatically deals 2d6 plus 1˝ times the dragon’s Strength bonus (round down). Affected creatures can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage (DC equal to that of the dragon’s breath weapon).

    Dark Ruler:
    At 20th level the duration of any enchantment spell or SLA from the purple dragon is doubled for free, and they receive a bonus to resist dispel checks equal to 1/4 the purple dragon's HD.



    Comments:
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    The purple dragon is basically a red dragon in disguise when you look closer so this one was actualy quite easy. They have pretty much the same CRs and base stats.

    The main diferences are:
    -The purple dragon doesn't have a subtype.
    -More SLA variety but less custom abilities
    -Better skill points as the purple dragon is described as a sneaky bastard.
    -Burrow speed and multiple ways to use his breath weapon.
    -Worst ability scores (-2 str, -2 con and -2 cha total) and nat armor than the red dragon to make up for the above.

    I kindly ask the other veterans to give a review of the above to see if it's on par with the other dragons.
    Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-09-23 at 07:14 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Oslecamo to the rescue! The purple dragon looks very nice. A working gish with a bunch of extra perks.
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    Wall of text attacks! CRITS!

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    Halleluiah! The real homebrewers have arrived! *Trumpets*
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelonius View Post
    Well, strangely enough a faction with Reputation 0 and history of past betrayals proved itself to be rather untrustworthy. My hat is off for the Mothriders.

    Damn, about 29 stats in one swipe. Since I'm clearly the next I'm booby-trapping every inch of the Maze.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Air Elemental



    CLASS
    Spoiler
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    Hit Die: d8

    AIR ELEMENTAL
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Body of Wind, Whirlwind, Air Mastery

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Bonus Feat, +1 Dex

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Growth, Dancing Wind, +1 Dex

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Immaterial, Wake, +1 Dex

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Bonus Feat, Zephyr, +1 Dex

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Hurricane Shroud

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Force of Nature/Wind Reach, +1 Dex

    8th|
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |Bonus Feat, +1 Dex

    9th|
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |Tempest Breath/Suffocate, +1 Dex

    10th|
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Roaring Winds/Whispering Winds, +1 Dex

    11th|
    +8
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Bonus Feat, Elder Elemental[/table]

    Class Skills: (2 + Int. Mod.) x4 at first level. The Air Elemental's class skills are Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently.

    Class Features
    Proficiencies: An Elemental is proficient with its own natural weapons.

    Wind Body: At first level, the Elemental loses all racial bonuses, traits, and abilities and gains elemental traits.

    Spoiler
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    • Darkvision out to 60 feet.
    • Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning.
    • Not subject to critical hits or flanking.
    • Unlike most other living creatures, an elemental does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an elemental is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an elemental. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish,wish, miracle, or true resurrection, to restore it to life.
    • Elementals do not eat, sleep, or breathe. Though elementals do not sleep, they still must entire periodic states of dormancy in order replenish daily abilities such as spells.


    The Elemental begins as a small creature but grows quickly. Early in life the elemental cannot yet fly, but it can hover up to 5ft. off the ground, along the ground at a speed of 40ft. Despite being made of wind, air elementals are, for the most part, solid and can wear equipment, use weapons, and manipulate objects normally. Air elementals have the Air subtype.

    The Elemental possesses a single slam attack which deals damage according to its size. 1d4 when small, 1d6 when medium, 2d6 when large, 2d8 when huge.

    Finally, an Air Elemental gains a bonus to it’s armor class in the form of a natural armor bonus equal to its constitution modifier.

    Whirlwind (Su): The Elemental can transform itself into a whirlwind once every 10 minutes and remain in that form for up to 2 round for every HD it has. In this form, the Elemental can move along a surface at its ground speed and at 5th level the Elemental may move through the air at its fly speed. The whirlwind is 5 feet wide at the base, up to 30 feet wide at the top, and up to 50 feet tall, depending on the Elemental’s size. The Elemental controls the exact height, but it must be at least 10 feet. The elemental’s movement while in whirlwind form does not provoke attacks of opportunity, even if the Elemental enters the space another creature occupies. Another creature might be caught in the whirlwind if it touches or enters the whirlwind, or if the Elemental moves into or through the creature’s space. Creatures one or more size categories smaller than the Elemental might take damage when caught in the whirlwind (see table for details) and may be lifted into the air. An affected creature must succeed on a Reflex save when it comes into contact with the whirlwind or take the indicated damage. It must also succeed on a second Reflex save or be picked up bodily and held suspended in the powerful winds, automatically taking the indicated damage each round. The elemental may not carry any number of creatures or objects which would exceed its heavy load. A creature that can fly is allowed a Reflex save each round to escape the whirlwind. The creature still takes damage but can leave if the save is successful. The DC for saves against the whirlwind’s effects is 10 + 1/2 the Elemental's HD + The Elemental's Strength Score. Creatures trapped in the whirlwind cannot move except to go where the Elemental carries them or to escape the whirlwind. Creatures caught in the whirlwind can otherwise act normally, but must succeed on a Concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell. Creatures caught in the whirlwind take a -4 penalty to Dexterity and a -2 penalty on attack rolls. The Elemental can have only as many creatures trapped inside the whirlwind at one time as will fit inside the whirlwind’s volume. The Elemental can eject any carried creatures whenever it wishes, depositing them wherever the whirlwind happens to be. A summoned Elemental always ejects trapped creatures before returning to its home plane. If the whirlwind’s base touches the ground, it creates a swirling cloud of debris. This cloud is centered on the Elemental and has a diameter equal to half the whirlwind’s height. The cloud obscures all vision, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. Creatures 5 feet away have concealment, while those farther away have total concealment. Those caught in the cloud must succeed on a Concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell. An Elemental in whirlwind form cannot make slam attacks and does not threaten the area around it.

    Whirlwind Statistics
    {table=head]HD|Damage|Height

    1-3|
    1d4
    |
    10ft.-20ft.

    4-6|
    1d6
    |
    10ft.-30ft.

    7-9|
    1d8
    |
    10ft.-40ft.

    10-12|
    2d6
    |
    10ft.-50ft.

    13-15|
    2d8
    |
    10ft.-60ft.

    16-20|
    2d10
    |
    10ft.-60ft.
    [/table]

    Air Mastery (Ex): Airborne creatures take a -1 penalty on attack and damage rolls against an air elemental.

    Ability Increases: An Air Elemental receives a bonus to its dexterity score at every level except 1st, 6th, and, 11th. At 10th level these bonuses total at +8 Dex.

    Bonus Feats: At second level, the Elemental gains Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat. At 5th level, the Elemental gains Mobility as a bonus feat. At 8th level, the Elemental gains Flyby Attack as a bonus feat. At 11th level the Elemental gains Improved Flyby Attack as a bonus feat. The Elemental gains the feats whether or not the Elemental meets the prerequisites. If the Elemental already possesses one of these feats whenever he receives it from the class, he instead choose another feat from the following list. He must meet all prerequisites for the replacement feat.
    Spoiler
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    PHB
    • Acrobatics
    • Agile
    • Combat Expertise
    • Combat Reflexes
    • Dodge
    • *Spring Attack
    • Improved Initiative
    • Lightning Reflexes
    PHBII
    • Bounding Assault
    • *Rapid Blitz
    Races of the Wild
    • Aerial Reflexes
    • Aerial Superiority
    • Diving Charge


    Growth: An elemental grows quickly after its birth. At 3rd level, the elemental gains the ability to spend a standard action to grow to medium size. It may remain this size for as long as it wishes and may also return to small size at anytime it wishes by spending another standard action. At 7th level, this ability expands allowing to elemental to assume large size. The elemental still changes size as a standard action but the elemental may only change by one size category on any given turn. So, for example, an elemental wishing to change from small to large would need two turns. One to achieve medium size and then another to grow to large. Finally, at 11th level, the elemental gains the ability to assume huge size.

    Dancing Wind (Ex): Once per round in any round the Elemental is adjacent to an enemy, the Elemental may, as a free action, move a number of squares equal to its dexterity modifier provided that the square moved to is also adjacent to the same enemy. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the adjacent enemy, but it does provoke an attack from any enemies who threaten either the original square or the square the Elemental moves to. When the Elemental moves he is still considered to be occupying the original square for the purpose of flanking. An Elemental may do this an number of times per encounter equal to its dexterity modifier. An Elemental cannot use this ability when wearing any armor heaver than light armor or when carrying any more than a light load.

    Immaterial (Ex): It is difficult to harm the wind and equally difficult to harm an Air Elemental. At 4th level, the Elemental gains DR/- equal to 1/2 its HD.

    Zephyr (Ex): At 5th level, the Elemental may fly at a speed of (5 x HD)ft, with perfect maneuverability. An Elemental cannot fly when wearing any armor heaver than light armor or when carrying any more than a light load.

    Wake (Ex): An Air Elemental in motion can clear paths through the battlefield with the sheer force of its own movement. In any turn in which a whenever an Elemental charges, all creatures adjacent to any square the Air Elemental moved through must make a balance check DC (10 + 1/2 the Air Elemental's HD + the Air Elementals strength modifier) or be knocked prone. A successful check negates this effect. The elemental provokes attacks from these enemies normally.

    Hurricane Shroud (Ex): The swirling air of the Elemental’s body can rip projectiles right out of the air. At 6th level, the Elemental gains a miss chance which applies to all ranged attacks except those from spells such as a lighting bolt or fireball spell, or projectiles sized for creatures more than one size category larger than the Elemental. This miss chance is equal to (2.5 x The Air Elemental’s HD)% (rounded down). Any ranged attack that fails to affect the Elemental due to this ability is immediately drawn into the Elementals body and begins to encircle it adding to the debris. Additionally, once per round as a free action, the Elemental can fire any projectile is has absorbed in this way at any opponent within 30ft. as if it were thrown or fired from the appropriate weapon by the Elemental (therefore using the elementals attack bonus and not the original attacker's.) The ammunition retains any magical properties that it possessed when it was fired. The elemental may only hold ammunition drawn into itself in this way for a number of rounds equal to its dexterity modifier, any longer than this and the ammunition is ejected harmlessly from its body or destroyed by other pieces of debris, in either case the ammunition is destroyed.

    At 7th level, an Air Elemental may choose from the two following abilities:

    Force of Nature (Su): The slam of the Air Elemental can bring with the power of gale force winds. At 7th level, Whenever Elemental makes a successful attack with his slam, he may choose to drop the damage die by one step in order to force the target to make a fortitude save (DC = 10 + damage dealt.) If the target fails then he is knocked back 5 feet for every point of the Air Elemental's dexterity modifier. If the target is stopped before he reaches the distance he would have been pushed, he takes damage equal to 1d6/10ft remaining. Creatures larger than the Air Elemental get a +4 circumstantial bonus to the save for every category larger than the Air Elemental that the creature is. Alternatively, the creature gets a -4 for every category smaller it is.

    Wind Reach (Su): The Air Elemental can control the air around it, allowing him to manipulate creatures and objects around it. This ability functions identically to the Greater Mage Hand spell with a caster level equal to the elemental's HD and is usable at will. At 12 HD, the spell this ability replicates changes to the Telekinesis spell.

    At 9th level the elemental chooses from the two following abilities:

    Tempest Breath (Su): At 9th level, an Elemental gains a breath weapon which can be used once every 1d4+1 rounds. This attack takes the form of a 60ft. cone, all creatures within the cone must make a fortitude save or be moved back a number of squares equal the Elementals constitution modifier. The DC for this effect is 10 + ˝ the Elemental’s HD + the Elemental’s constitution modifier. If the target fails the save by more than 5, he is also knocked prone.

    Suffocate (Su): At 9th Level, the elemental can draw the very air from the a creatures lungs. As a full-round action the elemental can attempt to suffocate an adjacent creature. The creature must succeed on a fortitude save (DC = 10 + 1/2 Air elementals HD + the Elementals constitution modifier) or have the oxygen pulled from its body, immediately dropping to 0 hp. On the following round, the elemental can spend another full-round action to continue this treatment. If it does do, the target drops to -1 hp and is dying. On the third round, if the elemental spends another full-round action to continue suffocating the target, the creature gets one final fortitude save. If the creature fails, it suffocates and dies. Using this ability does not wake a sleeping target and can be an effective means of assassination, especially to make it appear as if the target had died of natural causes.


    At 10th level the elemental chooses on of the two following abilities:

    Roaring Winds (Su): Air Elementals are the embodiment and masters of the element of wind. At 10th level, an Air Elemental can as a, standard action that does provoke an attack of opportunity, an Air Elemental can summon a mighty gale and fill an area with violent winds that make doing anything very difficult. The area of this effect extends outward 5ft for every HD the elemental possesses from the square the elemental initiated the ability in and does not move. To begin, any creature within the area must succeed of a will save each turn to ignore the violent storm or become flat-footed. Sonic effects or any ability which relies on sound to function (such as the harpy’s captivating song and most forms of blindsight and blindsense) do not as long as they are within the effects area. If any creature attempts to cast a spell while in the area they must first succeed on a concentration or the attempt fails, though the spell or spell slot remains unspent. The winds filling the area also kicks up dust and debris; so much so that all creatures within the area are considered to have concealment. Lastly, the violent turbulence within the area makes ranged attacks especially difficult. All ranged attack suffer a -4 circumstantial penalty when fire within or through the area. The Air Elemental is immune to all penalties and effects from this ability and can act normally in all way while in its area. The DC of the saves and checks this ability imposes are 10 +1/2 the Elemental’s HD + the Elementals Dexterity Modifier. The Elemental can create this effect once an encounter and this ability last one round for each HD the elemental possesses.

    Whispering Winds (Ex): At 10th level, the elemental can take the form of a gentle breeze. In this form, the wind elemental gains the incorporeal subtype. The elementals movement produces no noise and is treated as if within the area of a silence spell. Additionally, the elemental becomes completely invisible, and treated as if under the effects of a greater invisibility spell. The elemental may stay in this form for as long as it wishes, and assuming this form or returning to its regular form is a standard action.

    Elder Elemental (Su): At 11th level, The Air Elemental has grown to its full strength and is considered to be amongst the grandest of its kind. The Elemental receives a +4 bonus to all bluff, diplomacy, and intimidation check regarding creatures with the air subtype. Additionally, the Elemental can call the air to its aid. The Air Elemental can use summon monster V once a day for every 4 HD it possesses but may only us it to summon air elementals. At 13th level, and every two levels thereafter, the Air Elemental may use this ability to cast the next highest level summon monster spell to the maximum of summon monster IX at 19th level


    COMMENTS
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    Air Elementals specialize in mobility. They get a huge bonus to dexterity (+8) as well as bonus feats to compliment their usual attack-on-the-fly tactics. they also get plenty of abilities that allow them to spend most of their time flanking (especially with themselves) making rogue a nice compliment to the class. In addition, I tried to include some abilities that allow them to move their enemies around and keep them off balance.

    Also, I experimented with letting elementals choose how big they become, for ones who would see it as a disadvantage to become bigger.

    If it turns out I didn't do too bad on this one, I might try and do the other ones
    Last edited by AustontheGreat1; 2010-10-03 at 07:07 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Achaierai
    • The Monster Manual has a better picture than what you've got there.
    • Don't really get the chicken references, but I'm a terrible, humorless individual.
    • Ability names are very unclear as far as letting players know what they do.
    • It's bizarre that he gets natural armor equivalent to his strength bonus. Why not Con? The strength based bonus basically lets him stack strength to ridiculous levels.
    • I'm conflicted regarding the natural attack damage. They do a horrendous amount of damage for a 1st level full attack. Is the -5 penalty hardcoded, or is it just a repetition of the rules regarding natural attacks (and therefore able to be adjusted with multiattack)? Should clarify that.
    • I'd reword the ability Black Cloud for clarity; it should read either "3 times a day per HD, the Achaierai..." or "once a day for every 3 HD..."


    Quote Originally Posted by AustontheGreat1 View Post
    Air Elemental
    • First off, it's nice if you state in the ability descriptions the level it gets the ability. Others sometimes don't do this (I even forget sometimes), but it's annoying to have to scroll up to check the table and lose my place.
    • Don't center your list under Air Elemental Body. It looks bad and it's harder to read.
    • Under Air Elemental Body; "use weapons, and manipulate objects normally unfortunately the trait that allows them to do this also allows them to be harms by physical attacks" is awkwardly constructed, gramatically and otherwise. I'd just delete the bit referring to physical attacks, as it's pretty much a given.
    • At first level, the Air Elemental has no fly speed, but under Whirlwind you state "In this form, the Elemental can move through the air or along a surface at its fly speed." - so it's immobile?
    • Would be better if whirlwind stated the volume of creatures it can hold more clearly (perhaps using the air elemental's encumbrance to figure out?
    • Under Bonus Feats, Weapon Finesse doesn't need to specify a weapon.
    • It's a little mean for the elemental to go without a feat if he already has the one he'd gain. Perhaps he could get a feat of the air subtype? Or something else?
    • I don't entirely get the reasoning for the air elemental to getting to choose whether it increases in size.
    • Dancing Wind, I like.
    • The move speed Zephyr grants is a bit much. Maybe 10' per 2 HD?
    • Wake is rather powerful. Does it trigger attacks of opportunity? A save or fall prone is pretty rough, considering opponents who fail are set up for another wake attack the turn after (ie. they use a move action to get up, then air elemental charges by them again). What if it was a balance check vs. the same DC? It's not as likely to succeed vs. those who invested the ranks in balance (or creatures with four legs), but more likely vs. the untrained and clumsy.
    • I wouldn't make Hurricane Shroud's 'fire caught projectile' effect a free action. That just opens up situations at 20th level where the air elemental (who has a 100% miss chance) just sits there & has a friend shoot projectiles at them for a few days straight, then opens a challenging encounter by releasing them all at a target. I'd alternatively (or as part of the general nerf) consider lowering the miss chance.
    • I'd say the push effect of Force of Nature should have a drawback, like a penalty to hit or weapon finesse not applying to the strike, or something.
    • Tempest Breath specifies 'At xth level' - a nice thought, but unclear.
    • Earlier I complemented Dancing Wind. Whispering Winds is more problematic. It's unclear how it works when enemies move, it's pretty much an effortless way to grant allies a bonus and it takes a lot of thinking and strategy out of the game.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    • The Monster Manual has a better picture than what you've got there.
    • Don't really get the chicken references, but I'm a terrible, humorless individual.
    • Obviously. I thought it was the peak of hilarity. Then again, it was 2:00 in the morning... And I happen to like the picture I have.
    • Ability names are very unclear as far as letting players know what they do.
    A couple of them, yes... I should change that.
  24. It's bizarre that he gets natural armor equivalent to his strength bonus. Why not Con? The strength based bonus basically lets him stack strength to ridiculous levels.
Hmmm... alright then.
  • I'm conflicted regarding the natural attack damage. They do a horrendous amount of damage for a 1st level full attack. Is the -5 penalty hardcoded, or is it just a repetition of the rules regarding natural attacks (and therefore able to be adjusted with multiattack)? Should clarify that.
  • Yes, I suppose they do... then again, a human fighter with TWF and Oversized TWF wielding two longswords can do almost as much. I balanced it by dropping the BAB to 3/4, methinks... but, yeah
  • I'd reword the ability Black Cloud for clarity; it should read either "3 times a day per HD, the Achaierai..." or "once a day for every 3 HD..."
  • Can do.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    • I wouldn't make Hurricane Shroud's 'fire caught projectile' effect a free action. That just opens up situations at 20th level where the air elemental (who has a 100% miss chance) just sits there & has a friend shoot projectiles at them for a few days straight, then opens a challenging encounter by releasing them all at a target. I'd alternatively (or as part of the general nerf) consider lowering the miss chance.
    That may be why it says once per round.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Wall of text attacks! CRITS!

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog Dragon View Post
    That may be why it says once per round.
    Once a round helps (didn't see that, even after several rereads), but it's still a free attack every round.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-07-15 at 04:33 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    First off, it's nice if you state in the ability descriptions the level it gets the ability. Others sometimes don't do this (I even forget sometimes), but it's annoying to have to scroll up to check the table and lose my place.
    Can Do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Don't center your list under Air Elemental Body. It looks bad and it's harder to read.
    I meant for the spoiler itself to be centered, I thought it would be smaller. I will fix that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    At first level, the Air Elemental has no fly speed, but under Whirlwind you state "In this form, the Elemental can move through the air or along a surface at its fly speed." - so it's immobile?
    Ability was directly copy/pasted and air elemental have a fly speed of 200'100' from the get-go. Ill try and edit that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Would be better if whirlwind stated the volume of creatures it can hold more clearly (perhaps using the air elemental's encumbrance to figure out?
    Good Idea, I'll insert that somewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Under Bonus Feats, Weapon Finesse doesn't need to specify a weapon.
    Interesting, I was under the impression that you had to choose a weapon for the attack to apply too. I think I like that feet a lot better now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    It's a little mean for the elemental to go without a feat if he already has the one he'd gain. Perhaps he could get a feat of the air subtype? Or something else?
    I figured granting bonus feats was a little strong; also it was something that was a little uncommon on these monsters so far and I was a little worried that people wouldn't approve. Should I just allow them to pick any other feat they meet the prerequisites for?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    I don't entirely get the reasoning for the air elemental to getting to choose whether it increases in size.
    Like I said, I was just experimenting with it. Basically, it was for those people who wanted to go with a stealthy character, playing off the gentle breeze aspect of wind, instead of the powerful gust aspect. It is easily removed It just popped in my head and I thought I'd see how it worked. I was also considering allowing the character to chose between "Force of Nature" ability, and something with a little more subtlety.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Dancing Wind, I like.
    This made my day. Compliments along with criticism is the best way to do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    The move speed Zephyr grants is a bit much. Maybe 10' per 2 HD?
    Hmmm, I thought the air elemental had a fly speed of 200ft. So I tried to have it reach that at 20th level, I now see that you are right, they have a speed of 100ft. I'll change it like you suggested.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Wake is rather powerful. Does it trigger attacks of opportunity? A save or fall prone is pretty rough, considering opponents who fail are set up for another wake attack the turn after (ie. they use a move action to get up, then air elemental charges by them again). What if it was a balance check vs. the same DC? It's not as likely to succeed vs. those who invested the ranks in balance (or creatures with four legs), but more likely vs. the untrained and clumsy.
    I like your idea, I will do it as you say, and I originally intended it to provoke attacks of opportunity. Should I specify that it does. I always assumed that all movement provoked attacks unless otherwise stated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    I wouldn't make Hurricane Shroud's 'fire caught projectile' effect a free action. That just opens up situations at 20th level where the air elemental (who has a 100% miss chance) just sits there & has a friend shoot projectiles at them for a few days straight, then opens a challenging encounter by releasing them all at a target. I'd alternatively (or as part of the general nerf) consider lowering the miss chance.

    Once a round helps (didn't see that, even after several rereads), but it's still a free attack every round with an attack bonus equivalent to your best teammate's.
    The ability was inspired by the stories about straw being lodged in trees and the horrible effects the debris hurled from a tornado can have. It is actually intended to mean that you fire it with your own bonus not the original, the arrow simply keeps all the properties. I've always had trouble with wording. I could also, give a duration for how long the projectile can remain in the body without being fired so as to prevent that scenario; though I'm strongly considering removing the ranged attack part of the ability and just granting the miss chance. I kind of liked the free action part as the elemental is not supposed to have to think about it, he just hurls debris uncontrollably, but if the ability is powerful I will certainly Nerf it. Lastly, how about HD x 2.5 (rounded down) to a maximum of 50% at 20th level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    I'd say the push effect of Force of Nature should have a drawback, like a penalty to hit or weapon finesse not applying to the strike, or something.
    How about making it work a little like power attack? You can take a bonus to hit off of the attack up to your dexterity modifier, for every -1 you take the distance pushed back increases by 5 feet. Also, I originally had it to where the elemental had to forgo doing damage on the attack to knock them back if you think that might be better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Tempest Breath specifies 'At xth level' - a nice thought, but unclear.
    Oops, left over from the design phase. Sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Earlier I complemented Dancing Wind. Whispering Winds is more problematic. It's unclear how it works when enemies move, it's pretty much an effortless way to grant allies a bonus and it takes a lot of thinking and strategy out of the game.
    How problematic? Should I remove it or I just nerf it? What do you suggest?
    Last edited by AustontheGreat1; 2010-07-15 at 05:04 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by AustontheGreat1 View Post
    Interesting, I was under the impression that you had to choose a weapon for the attack to apply too. I think I like that feet a lot better now.
    The drawback is that it doesn't help your damage, so there's a tradeoff to the shift away from MAD.

    Quote Originally Posted by AustontheGreat1 View Post
    I figured granting bonus feats was a little strong; also it was something that was a little uncommon on these monsters so far and I was a little worried that people wouldn't approve. Should I just allow them to pick any other feat they meet the prerequisites for?
    Not sure.

    You might consider doing as I did with the Harpy and having a list of feats that the player can pick from at specific levels (and once they've taken all levels in the class, with a certain # of HD thereafter).

    Quote Originally Posted by AustontheGreat1 View Post
    I like your idea, I will do it as you say, and I originally intended it to provoke attacks of opportunity. Should I specify that it does. I always assumed that all movement provoked attacks unless otherwise stated.
    Can't hurt to state it.


    Quote Originally Posted by AustontheGreat1 View Post
    The ability was inspired by the stories about straw being lodged in trees and the horrible effects the debris hurled from a tornado can have. It is actually intended to mean that you fire it with your own bonus not the original, the arrow simply keeps all the properties. I've always had trouble with wording. I could also, give a duration for how long the projectile can remain in the body without being fired so as to prevent that scenario; though I'm strongly considering removing the ranged attack part of the ability and just granting the miss chance. I kind of liked the free action part as the elemental is not supposed to have to think about it, he just hurls debris uncontrollably, but if the ability is powerful I will certainly Nerf it. Lastly, how about HD x 2.5 (rounded down) to a maximum of 50% at 20th level.
    The ability concept is good, the execution is potentially prone to abuse. Having a set # of rounds on how long a projectile can stay with the elemental and a nerf to the evasion % is fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by AustontheGreat1 View Post
    How about making it work a little like power attack? You can take a bonus to hit off of the attack up to your dexterity modifier, for every -1 you take the distance pushed back increases by 5 feet. Also, I originally had it to where the elemental had to forgo doing damage on the attack to knock them back if you think that might be better.
    The -1 for 5' knockback is potentially clunky. The way I see it, the air elemental should have to choose, tactically, whether it wants to make the attack with a penalty (and the knockback bonus) or a standard attack.

    Come to think of it, I also have to wonder about a situation where you've got a medium sized elemental knocking colossal dire elephants 50' back. The attack-penalty-for-knockback would promote this, rather than anything else (as colossal creatures have a -8 AC).

    I'd suggest reduced damage (my giants with similar abilities are known to not get strength bonuses to damage when applying effects like these), but with weapon finesse, your air elementals aren't liable to emphasize the strength bonuses anyways.

    Maybe reduce the die size of damage (to 1d8 if it's 2d6, etc) for the general benefit?

    Quote Originally Posted by AustontheGreat1 View Post
    How problematic? Should I remove it or I just nerf it? What do you suggest?
    It's not that it demands a nerf, just that it's a complicated thing to track during the game. You can picture a fight against 9 gnolls. You use the ability to weave around them and guarantee the flanking bonuses... but then they take their turns and move, and suddenly those flanking bonuses come into question. The actual bonus isn't that major (though it adds up and it comes with minimal penalty), it's just the hassle/difficulty of tracking it.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    It's not that it demands a nerf, just that it's a complicated thing to track during the game. You can picture a fight against 9 gnolls. You use the ability to weave around them and guarantee the flanking bonuses... but then they take their turns and move, and suddenly those flanking bonuses come into question. The actual bonus isn't that major (though it adds up and it comes with minimal penalty), it's just the hassle/difficulty of tracking it.
    I just realized I left some words out when typing the ability and maybe that through off the meaning. Basically it works like this, you move twice your movement speed and all squares moved through are considered occupied for flanking. The way I had it before, I left out "squares moved through" so it said "you are considered occupying all squares." If the target moves on his turn out of his square to a new square, one that is not threatened by multiple creatures including squares considered to be occupied by you, then he isn't considered flanked. Simple as that. You probably knew what I was trying to say, but I still thought it'd be best to clarify. Also, when I wrote it moves twice its movement speed, I didn't really think about its already ludicrous movement speed so I think I could safely reduce it to. the elemental moves its full speed.

    Now if I add the bits declaring that if the target moves he is no longer flanked, drop the speed, and reduce it to once an encounter (the elemental doing that a bunch of times in a fight seems unnecessary and would make things very complicated.) You think that might solve some of the issues?

    Also, what does MAD stand for?

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by AustontheGreat1 View Post

    Also, what does MAD stand for?
    mutltiple ability dependancy

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by AustontheGreat1 View Post
    I just realized I left some words out when typing the ability and maybe that through off the meaning. Basically it works like this, you move twice your movement speed and all squares moved through are considered occupied for flanking. The way I had it before, I left out "squares moved through" so it said "you are considered occupying all squares." If the target moves on his turn out of his square to a new square, one that is not threatened by multiple creatures including squares considered to be occupied by you, then he isn't considered flanked. Simple as that. You probably knew what I was trying to say, but I still thought it'd be best to clarify. Also, when I wrote it moves twice its movement speed, I didn't really think about its already ludicrous movement speed so I think I could safely reduce it to. the elemental moves its full speed.

    Now if I add the bits declaring that if the target moves he is no longer flanked, drop the speed, and reduce it to once an encounter (the elemental doing that a bunch of times in a fight seems unnecessary and would make things very complicated.) You think that might solve some of the issues?

    Also, what does MAD stand for?
    Well, the trouble is having to somehow mark every square you moved through any time you use the ability. If creatures can invalidate the special flanking by moving, it kind of makes the ability nigh-on useless (Most creatures will move, and the bonus really isn't worth it considering you give up a turn's actions).

    MAD is Multiple Attribute Dependency. It refers to classes that need a lot of high stats to be worthwhile - like how Monks need the str for attacks, dex for AC, Con for HP, and Wis for abilities.

    All melee is somewhat MAD (by virtue of needing/wanting Str, Dex and Con at high levels, with some points in other stats for skills and wis save. Weapon Finesse takes Str out of that equation, but your weapon damage suffers for it.

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