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  1. - Top - End - #1111
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Really? What's your problem? You seem to be pissed off at not just the individual classes, but by how Oslecamo is doing things. Most people are happy with it: if it's not broken, don't fix it. If you don't like the goddamn classes, then don't use the goddamn classes, or do what I'm doing and make your own.
    I am pissed off about the way several classes follow a "No you can't have anything the monster has until you reach half the CR of the monster" style thing, where you can't stun people until level 4, and you can't eye beam multiple people until you are level 6. But mostly I just don't like that like half of all caster monsters are just "you attack with natural weapons" as if that were in any way castery, or what someone who wants to play a beholder/mindflayer/whatever wants from a class of the same.

    But as for making my own, he's already made some of them, so if I make a straight up mindflayer who actually stuns people at all levels, he's not going to link it on his little box, and people aren't going to use it, look it over, or have it allowed in games, because it doesn't carry his name and authority.

  2. - Top - End - #1112
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Malakar View Post
    But as for making my own, he's already made some of them, so if I make a straight up mindflayer who actually stuns people at all levels, he's not going to link it on his little box, and people aren't going to use it, look it over, or have it allowed in games, because it doesn't carry his name and authority.
    You could just use your own thread if you don't agree. Heck, a lot of people don't allow homebrew period so him having made it doesn't mean they'll automatically allow it. Even if somebody does allow homebrew, it doesn't mean they'll allow his.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-08-01 at 09:19 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #1113
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    You could just use your own thread if you don't agree. Heck, a lot of people don't allow homebrew period so him having made it doesn't mean they'll automatically allow it. Even if somebody does allow homebrew, it doesn't mean they'll allow his.
    I'm not saying it's a universal. But some people do allow some homebrew. And of those people, more people are going to accept it because it's on his list of Monster classes than if it isn't, unless Fax wrote it, in which case same thing.

    Specific posters here apparently have reputations of at least quality X, because of the homebrew accepting games, they pre clear some posters work, and accept things more readily from them.

    So it behooves me to encourage this poster to change some aspects and thus have it be accepted by a wider audience than to make it myself and have it accepted by myself.

  4. - Top - End - #1114
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    I wasn't aware that Oslecamo was a well known homebrew poster.

    Ignoring that for a moment however, I still think you should do it by yourself rather than try to convince him to change every single class he's done so far. As soon as I believe I've got a good grasp of the mechanics I'll be leaving this thread to do my own and try and get up a reputation.

    However, if that happens, I will link back to here and mention that the other people in this thread are extremely helpful, they have some very good homebrew of their own, and I couldn't have done it without their help.

  5. - Top - End - #1115
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Kyuubi: Disease perfection... huh... well, it's a little underwhelming for a 20th level capstone. My iron golem gets permanent spell turning and complete immunity to all SR: yes spells, and that's at 13th level.
    Then again, it's nice to have, and other 20th level capstones are rather underwhelming, so it should be fine. Certainly not unbalanced.
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  6. - Top - End - #1116
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Well, I couldn't really think of anything both disease or lower planes based and so good you want to go to twenty just so you can have it. If you have any ideas I'm willing to hear them.

    I also changed the swim speed to be equal to hit dice as per other the other dragons fly speeds. I figure it should get a scaling speed as well. Although, swim doesn't come up a lot in the games I'm in so it may have consequences I can't foresee.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-08-02 at 01:17 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #1117
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    Well, I couldn't really think of anything both disease or lower planes based and so good you want to go to twenty just so you can have it. If you have any ideas I'm willing to hear them.

    I also changed the swim speed to be equal to hit dice as per other the other dragons fly speeds. I figure it should get a scaling speed as well. Although, swim doesn't come up a lot in the games I'm in so it may have consequences I can't foresee.
    Hmmm... how about you include the caveat that if said creature is not immune to disease, they don't get a save? That should work well.
    Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer

  8. - Top - End - #1118
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Hmmm... how about you include the caveat that if said creature is not immune to disease, they don't get a save? That should work well.
    Aha! Thank you.

    Hmm. I think it might need one other thing for level 17. Maybe improved DC for disease based affects?

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    Aha! Thank you.

    Hmm. I think it might need one other thing for level 17. Maybe improved DC for disease based affects?
    Hmmm... perhaps...
    A theme on the styx dragon seems to be mental ability score damage... perhaps you could channel that through melee attacks? It's something. The bite, I suppose, as the tail's already supplying it: save or be affected as if by a feeblemind? Something like that.
    Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer

  10. - Top - End - #1120
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Hmmm... perhaps...
    A theme on the styx dragon seems to be mental ability score damage... perhaps you could channel that through melee attacks? It's something. The bite, I suppose, as the tail's already supplying it: save or be affected as if by a feeblemind? Something like that.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. On the one hand Feeblemind is pretty powerful. On the other, it's an enchantment, compulsion, and a mind affecting spell so I don't know. I'll look at the various penalty/damage spells though and get back to you.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-08-02 at 01:43 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    Hmm. I'm not sure. On the one hand Feeblemind is pretty powerful. On the other, it's an enchantment, compulsion, and a mind affecting spell so I don't know. I'll look at the various penalty/damage spells though and get back to you.
    Well, I'm really just brainstorming here. Just ideas to get you going: in the end, it's your class.
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  12. - Top - End - #1122
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Well, I'm really just brainstorming here. Just ideas to get you going: in the end, it's your class.
    Yes, and thank you for the help. Right now it's between feeblemind and Eyebite. Feeblemind makes more sense thematically though. Plus, I still need to get the other breath weapon done which will make it a deadly combo on the opponents that are vulnerable.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    Yes, and thank you for the help. Right now it's between feeblemind and Eyebite. Feeblemind makes more sense thematically though. Plus, I still need to get the other breath weapon done which will make it a deadly combo on the opponents that are vulnerable.
    Might just want to put a low daily cap on the ability- topping out at 3 a day or something like that, if you're going the feeblemind route (which is certainly much more thematically appropriate). In fact, you might even want to let there be a choice between the two.
    Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer

  14. - Top - End - #1124
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Might just want to put a low daily cap on the ability- topping out at 3 a day or something like that, if you're going the feeblemind route (which is certainly much more thematically appropriate). In fact, you might even want to let there be a choice between the two.
    Made there be a choice between the two, added the Stupefying breath, and capped it at 3/day like you suggested. Although I'm not sure the eyebite ability is strong enough to warrant 3/day since it would only affect the creature bitten. Any ideas? And yes, I know the 3/day on eyebite wasn't your suggestion.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-08-02 at 02:14 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    Made there be a choice between the two, added the Stupefying breath, and capped it at 3/day like you suggested. Although I'm not sure the eyebite ability is strong enough to warrant 3/day since it would only affect the creature bitten. Any ideas? And yes, I know the 3/day on eyebite wasn't your suggestion.
    Hmmm...
    Well, first of all, an easy fix would be to let them choose between feeblemind & eyebite every time they bite an enemy. Or, make eyebite at will, feeblemind 3/day. Or, better yet, just let it channel its breath weapon with a bite attack, which would be even more thematically appropriate (god why didn't I say that earlier?)
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Hmmm...
    Well, first of all, an easy fix would be to let them choose between feeblemind & eyebite every time they bite an enemy. Or, make eyebite at will, feeblemind 3/day. Or, better yet, just let it channel its breath weapon with a bite attack, which would be even more thematically appropriate (god why didn't I say that earlier?)
    I have two theories.
    1.you have insomnia like me (Go ahead and read the breath weapon entry.)
    2. You're distracted by other things and aren't putting all your focus into this.

    EDIT: Okay, I think it works well as a class now and is worth taking to level 20. Thanks for the help!
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-08-02 at 02:24 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    I have two theories.
    1.you have insomnia like me (Go ahead and read the breath weapon entry.)
    2. You're distracted by other things and aren't putting all your focus into this.

    EDIT: Okay, I think it works well as a class now and is worth taking to level 20. Thanks for the help!
    ...No, no, number one, certainly. Was that there before?
    Honestly, though... please... for the good of everyone... clean it up, will you? You have abilities on the table that aren't in the class.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    ...No, no, number one, certainly. Was that there before?
    Honestly, though... please... for the good of everyone... clean it up, will you? You have abilities on the table that aren't in the class.
    Really? Okay.

    I hate being awake at 3:30. It messes with everything.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-08-02 at 02:30 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    Really? Okay.

    I hate being awake at 3:30. It messes with everything.
    3:30... you live on the... east coast of america? I'm guessing somewhere around the big apple?
    It's 12:30 here in Californey. I've still got at least another hour or four of activity, though certainly none of it will be entirely lucid.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    3:30... you live on the... east coast of america? I'm guessing somewhere around the big apple?
    It's 12:30 here in Californey. I've still got at least another hour or four of activity, though certainly none of it will be entirely lucid.
    Nope. I live in Little old boring Indiana.Okay, it's not that boring. We have Gencon for example.

    EDIT: Okay. I think I've got the class cleaned up.

    edit 2: Okay, question on the tail blades. Would that be two seperate attacks each of which get +1 and 1/2 strength bonus as normal?
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-08-02 at 04:03 AM.

  21. - Top - End - #1131

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Malakar View Post
    I am pissed off about the way several classes follow a "No you can't have anything the monster has until you reach half the CR of the monster" style thing, where you can't stun people until level 4, and you can't eye beam multiple people until you are level 6. But mostly I just don't like that like half of all caster monsters are just "you attack with natural weapons" as if that were in any way castery, or what someone who wants to play a beholder/mindflayer/whatever wants from a class of the same.
    Ok, let's say I want to play an undead-rising necromancer.

    Best bet I need to be a cleric lv5. The dread necromancer needs 7 levels before he gets animate dead.

    Wanna play a transmuting wizard? Well you won't be actualy transmuting anything untill lv 3 at best.

    Want to play a mounted rider? Either you're a puny halfling and get a dog mount or again wait untill you can afford a large mount.

    Why? Because those are powerfull stuff that are not suited for lv1 play.

    The necromancer will be your average cleric untill lv5 and the transmuter will be your average wizard untill lv3.

    The mind flayer on the other hand can talk in your mind at lv1 (combined with bluff/intimidate if needed), charm person at lv2 and finally mind blast at lv 3. In my opinion this shows well his increasing mastery of his mental powers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malakar View Post
    I'm not saying it's a universal. But some people do allow some homebrew. And of those people, more people are going to accept it because it's on his list of Monster classes than if it isn't, unless Fax wrote it, in which case same thing.

    Specific posters here apparently have reputations of at least quality X, because of the homebrew accepting games, they pre clear some posters work, and accept things more readily from them.
    And you know why? Because those posters worked hard for that reputation. The mind flayer and medusa you complain so much about were of my first works here and received several good reviews.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malakar View Post
    So it behooves me to encourage this poster to change some aspects and thus have it be accepted by a wider audience than to make it myself and have it accepted by myself.
    You know, you did notice that Gorgondatress said he'll do a full-psionics mind flayer and I'll review it for adding to the list right?

    So if you think you can do a better job give it a try. If I like it then it will be added. If I don't like it you're free to go start your own thread and work hard as I did building up your own reputation.

    Now if you excuse me I'm off to review Kyuubi's newest dragon.
    Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-08-02 at 05:40 AM.

  22. - Top - End - #1132
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Also, about that list. You missed my Yugoloths in there. If they still need an edit, I'll go do it. After that, I'll get doing the other yugoloths. In the manual of the planes, there's still Canoloth and Ultroloth I haven't touched on. Fiend Folio and the MM:s probably have some too.
    Hmm, there's Piscoloth and Skeroloth in the Fiend Folio.
    Edit: Marraenoloth, Arcanaloth and Yagnoloth found in MMII In MMIII they just updated the Manual of the planes yugoloths.
    In MMIV we have Corruptor of Fate, Voor and Dreadful Lasher. Weird disconnect from the other "loth" names. And there are no yugoloths in MMV. Still have 10 yugoloths to do.
    Last edited by Frog Dragon; 2010-08-02 at 06:39 AM.
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  23. - Top - End - #1133

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    EDIT: Okay. I think I've got the class cleaned up.
    At first glance:
    -Specify that the improved grab only works with tail blade attacks.
    -The disease special abilities, altough flavourfull, aren't that usefull as diseases are very slow acting. I would add some extra custom abilities to allow the dragon to speed up the disease's effects.
    -Last levels kinda empty. See above and below for sugestions, or just add a few more ability scores.
    -You don't specify they can breathe underwater. They're also suposed to be aquatic creatures so they shouldn't take penalties in underwater combat.
    -The original Styx dragon has two DRs, one /magic and the other /good. I would sugest to combine it in DR/magic and good equal to half HD.
    -Since they can't fly boosts to the land speed over the progression would be nice since the other dragons eventually are flying at 200 foot speed.
    -The stygian breath could probably scale up a little faster like 1 int damage per 4 HD, even per 3HD or per 2HD if we want to make it really powerfull. 3 int damage on 15th level doesn't really scare anybody. 7 Int damage may look a lot but most 14th level stuff out there has 10 or more int so they'll be able to shrugg off one breath at least and very few monsters have int-related abilities so they combat ability won't be reduced. Heck, the silver dragon gets save or die breath at 5th level.

    In alternative, 1 Int damage per 4 HD or 3 HD, but deals half damage on sucessfull save.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    edit 2: Okay, question on the tail blades. Would that be two seperate attacks each of which get +1 and 1/2 strength bonus as normal?
    Yeah good question. The sty dragon does get a lot less attacks than other dragons but two attacks for +1 and 1/2 at 1st level seems kinda overkill. Make it start as just +1 Str and then make it increase to +1 and 1/2 at some higher level.

  24. - Top - End - #1134

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog Dragon View Post
    Also, about that list. You missed my Yugoloths in there. If they still need an edit, I'll go do it.
    No they're good enough now, I just forgot to add them due to all other stuff. Thanks for reminding me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog Dragon View Post
    After that, I'll get doing the other yugoloths. In the manual of the planes, there's still Canoloth and Ultroloth I haven't touched on. Fiend Folio and the MM:s probably have some too.
    Hmm, there's Piscoloth and Skeroloth in the Fiend Folio.
    I look forward to them. It's really great each one of you wants to tackle your favorite monster "families" since I prefer to do the more unique stuff.

    EDIT: Buffed up battle of minds ability of the Mind Flayer to allow it to use intimidate to demoralize oponents at range and adding his int modifier on top of Cha, now that I noticed that you can only demoralize oponents whitin your melee reach.
    Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-08-02 at 09:28 AM.

  25. - Top - End - #1135
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    Ok, let's say I want to play an undead-rising necromancer.

    Best bet I need to be a cleric lv5. The dread necromancer needs 7 levels before he gets animate dead.
    Or you can be a Wizard who gets a skeleton instead of familiar and uses Summon Undead from level 1, and then use Command Undead, and take a disciple to get Animate at level 5. And then you can be doing the same thing from level 1, but be doing it less well.

  26. - Top - End - #1136

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Malakar View Post
    Or you can be a Wizard who gets a skeleton instead of familiar and uses Summon Undead from level 1, and then use Command Undead, and take a disciple to get Animate at level 5. And then you can be doing the same thing from level 1, but be doing it less well.
    In that first example the skeleton is pretty weak and the wizard has no way to easily heal it after it gets banged up in battle. And it costs 100 GP so good luck actualy starting with it.

    Command undead only comes online at lv3, and then you need to actualy find those undead.

    Summon undead at lv 1 lasts 1 round. An horrible use of your precious few spell slots.

    A disciple? Since when do wizards get disciples as a class feature? You could take leadership at lv6 but anyone can do that.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Gorgondantess thanks for your positive critiquing:
    I tried to fix everything you pointed out and based most abilities off the Balor and angel (reducing things where necessary)

    Here is my attempt, please feel free to PEACH and/or annihilate my attempt :)

    Spoiler
    Show


    Leonal
    Favored Class: Ranger
    Hit Die: D10
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|speed

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    Leonal Body, Lay on hands, Speak with animals
    |
    +0

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +1 Str, Celestial , Detect thoughts
    |
    +0

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    Heavens Blessings, Natural Attacks, fireball
    |
    +0

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1 Str, cure critical wounds, Speed, pounce
    |
    +10

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +2 Con, Lesser Protective aura
    |
    +10

    6th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +1 Str, Remove disease, Roar
    |
    +10

    7th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2 Dex, Neutralize Poison, Greater protective aura, Rake
    |
    +10

    8th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |
    +1 Str, Hold Monster, Improved Grab
    |
    +20

    9th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |
    +2 Cha, Wall of force
    |
    +20

    10th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +1 Str
    |
    +20

    11th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    Heal
    |
    +20

    12th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    +1 Str, Lion form
    |
    +30
    [/table]

    Skill points at 1st: (4 + INT Modifier) x 4
    Skill points at Each additional level: 4 + INT Modifier
    Skills: Balance, Concentration, Diplomacy, hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge(any), Listen, Move silently, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival.
    The Leonal gains +1 Str at levels 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12
    The Leonal gains +2 Con at 5th level
    The Leonal gains +2 Dex at 7th level
    The Leonal gains +2 Cha at 9th level
    Leonal body: The Leonal loses all other racial bonus and gains outsider traits. It's a medium sized outsider with base 40 feet and two natural claw attacks (1d6 + Str). He also gains a racial bonus equal to ½HD to Move silently and Hide skills. A Leonal also gets +1 Nat armor equal to its Con modifier.
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: As outsider proficient with all simple and martial weapons. A Leonal is not proficient with any kind of armor.
    Lay on Hands: Beginning at 1st level a Leonal can heal himself a number of hit points per day equal to the Leonal’s HD X Cha modifier. This ability is identical to the Paladins Lay on hands ability.
    Celestial: Gain resistance to electricity and a bonus to saves versus pertrification equal to its HD. A bonus on saves against poison equal to half his HD, and resistance to sonic and cold equal to half his HD, Also gains the good subtype.
    Natural Attacks: A Leonal gains 1 bite attack (1D8 + ½ str) at 3rd. Any natural attacks the Leonal has are considered good aligned for purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
    Heavens Blessings: A Leonal gains DR/silver and evil equal to half its HD and SR equal to 11+HD.
    Leonal SLA’s: When a spell appears in the entry, the Leonal can use it as a SLA a certain number of times per day depending on its HD. Saves are 10 + ½HD + Cha mod. Caster level is equal to HD. Some of those spells are always active and although they can be dispelled the Leonal can recreate them in his own turn as a free action. The Leonal can also turn those abilities off out of his own will and reactivate them as a free action when needed (only on his own turn).
    Speak with animals: 1/day/HD as a free action that does not require sound.
    Detect Thoughts: 1/day/HD
    Fireball: 1/day/3HD
    Cure Critical wounds: 1/day/3HD
    Lesser Protective aura: Always active, as magic circle against evil (double strength), but affects all within 20 feet of the Leonal.
    Remove disease: 1/day/5HD
    Neutralize Poison: 1/day/5HD
    Greater protective aura: Always active, as minor glove of invulnerability, but affects all allies within 20 feet of the Leonal.
    Hold Monster: 1/day/2HD
    Wall of force: 1/day/5HD
    Heal: 1/day/5HD
    Speed: A Leonal’s speed increases at 4th and every 4 levels after by 10ft (cumulatively for a total of )
    Pounce: A Leonal of 4th level gains the ability to Pounce on its target, A Leonal can make a full attack when charging including 2 rakes (if any).
    Roar: At 6th Level a Leonal is Capable of Roaring with the wrath of the heavens, this roar is a 60ft cone and duplicates the Holy word spell, he can use it 1/day/4 Levels and it deals an extra 1D6 sonic damage per 5HD. DC = 18 + CHA modifier. Caster level equals HD.
    Rake: At 6th a Leonal can make a Rake attack on a successful grapple (or two on a pounce). Rakes are at the Leonal’s highest attack and deal 1D8 + Str.
    Improved Grab: At 8th a Leonal gains the Improved Grab ability, when he successfully hits with his bite attack he can make a grapple attempt as a free action. If successful it establishes a hold and can rake.
    Lion Form: A Leonal can change as the druid wildshape ability but only into medium and large cats. The amount of times per day is the same as a druid of the same level, all SLA’s work in this alternate form. A Leonal can never assume a form other than a cat (for example from Prc’s).
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  28. - Top - End - #1138
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog Dragon View Post
    Also, about that list. You missed my Yugoloths in there. If they still need an edit, I'll go do it. After that, I'll get doing the other yugoloths. In the manual of the planes, there's still Canoloth and Ultroloth I haven't touched on. Fiend Folio and the MM:s probably have some too.
    Hmm, there's Piscoloth and Skeroloth in the Fiend Folio.
    Edit: Marraenoloth, Arcanaloth and Yagnoloth found in MMII In MMIII they just updated the Manual of the planes yugoloths.
    In MMIV we have Corruptor of Fate, Voor and Dreadful Lasher. Weird disconnect from the other "loth" names. And there are no yugoloths in MMV. Still have 10 yugoloths to do.
    *coughs*
    *raises hand*...
    Can I do the ultroloth & marraenoloth?
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  29. - Top - End - #1139

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Much better work now BelGareth! I would just sugest a few more adjustments:
    -In the leonal body you say "+1 Nat armor equal to it's Con modifier". Do you mean just "nat armor equal to Con modifier" or "Nat Armor equal to 1+Con modifier"? Clear it up a bit please.
    -The roar ability is by far the stronger ability of the class while Lion form could come earlier. They should be swapped in the progression.
    -No +2 at one stat in a single level. Spread them over the progression on the form of multiple +1.
    -10th level still kinda empty. I would sugest you take a look at the hound archon who can also transform into dogs but I added the ability to transform into huge, gargantuan and colossal dogs by expending extra uses.

    Otherwise good job, you're geting the hang of it!

  30. - Top - End - #1140
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    Awesome, i will see what i can do with the 10th level (and yes i agree)
    Clear up the nat armor (it was 'nat armor equal to Con modifier')
    And swap those abilities, The roar is more powerful...
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