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2010-08-22, 05:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
Sorry for double posting, but I couldn't resist (there's a rebuttal on the last page, FYI). Also, could you consider adding my psionic mindflayer to the 1st page?
Anthropomorphic Animal:
"Hello, players. Look at your minotaur. Now back to me. Now back to your minotaur. Now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me, but if he received the same favor Oslecamo gave me he could fight like me. Look down, back up, where are you? You're in a dungeon with the monster class your minotaur could fight like. What's in your hand, back at me, I have it, it's the +1 lucky keen enervating metalline falchion you always wanted that you got from the corpse of your annihilated enemies. Look again, the falchion is now 98,000 gp worth of diamonds! Anything is possible when your monster class fights as well as me and not like an early improved monster class monster. I'm on a dragon."
The AA is flat out more powerful than the minotaur. Now, I'm not going to try to resurrect that old argument, but I'm making a point. Look at the first monster classes you made: aside from a few, they're pretty much all low-mid tier 3. Look at the later monster classes. They're all high tier three to tier 1. If I were you, I'd just scan through some of them and tweak them up a bit, like you did with the mindflayer. The minotaur and succubus are both culprits.Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-08-22 at 05:22 PM.
Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer
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2010-08-22, 05:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-08-22, 05:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-08-22, 07:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
I changed it so that you can only pick from one of the big lists of the player's choice since the shu-jenga ha to choose a clan besides elemental specialization.
That's what I meant, anyway extra-clarified it.
I has weak Bab and just +1 Rac dex with a d8 HD and the best weapon it can use is a bastard sword. Even a fighter with armor and a greatsword should be able to go toe to toe with it.
I'll reluctantly admit that. It was the start, I was being kinda over-cautious, in particular with abilitiy scores. Would you mind pointing out other ones you think are too weak right now? Do remember I'm biased being their creator.
Minotaur changed to give +1 Str and Con at every level.
Succubus changed to get medium Bab, good ref saves +1 Cha at every level and two new custom abilities, one to lower oponent's AC and the other giving her a permanent custom sanctuary effect. Also allowed kiss to give increased non-charisma ability scoresLast edited by Oslecamo; 2010-08-22 at 07:27 PM.
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2010-08-22, 07:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-08-22 at 07:22 PM.
Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer
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2010-08-22, 08:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
Cornugon
SpoilerHD: D10
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1 | +1 | +0|+0 |+0 |Horned Body, Versatile Devil, +1 Cha
2| +2| +0|+0 |+0 |Devil, +1 Str
3| +3| +1|+1| +1 |Horned Hide, Bite, +1 Str
4| +4| +1| +1|+1 |Infernal Summoning, Powerful Build, +1 Con
5| +5| +1| +1| +1|Flight, Tail, +1 Str, +1 Dex
6| +6| +2|+2|+2 |Magic Circle, +1 Str, +1 Cha
7| +7| +2| +2| +2|Destroyer, +1 Str
8| +8| +2| +2| +2|Fear Aura, +1 Str
9| +9| +3|+3 |+3|Growth, +1 Str, +1 Con
10| +10| +3|+3|+3 |Stun, Regeneration, +1 Str, +1 Dex
11| +11| +3| +3|+3 |Greater Destroyer, +1 Str, +1 Cha
12| +12| +4| +4|+4 |Infernal Wound, Greater Fear Aura, +1 Str, +1 Con
13| +13| +4| +4| +4|Cornugon SLAs, Natural Power, +1 Str, +1 Dex
14| +14| +4| +4| +4|Ultimate Fear Aura, +1 Str, +1 Con
15| +15| +5| +5| +5|Greater Stun, +1 Str, +1 Dex
16| +16| +5| +5| +5|Ultimate Destroyer, +1 Str, +1 Cha[/table]
Skills: 2+int per level, x4 at 1st. Class skills: Bluff, Hide, Intimidate, Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Spot.
Proficiencies: The Cornugon is proficient in all simple & martial weapon, as well as one exotic weapon of its choice.
Horned Body: The Cornugon loses all other racial traits, becoming an outsider with 30 ft. base speed, 2 claws as natural primary attacks dealing 1d6+str each.
In addition, it gains a bonus to natural armor equal to its constitution modifier+1.
Ability Score Increases: The Cornugon gains +1 Str every level but 1 and 4, +1 Con at levels 4, 9, 12 & 14, +1 Dex at levels 5, 10, 13 & 15, and +1 Cha at levels 1, 6, 11, & 16, for a total of +14 str, +4 con, +4 dex & +4 cha.
Versatile Devil: At 1st level, the Cornugon chooses one of its save progressions to be good.
Devil: The Cornugon gains a bonus on saves against poison and resistance to fire equal to its HD, and resistance to acid and cold equal to half HD. It can also see under any kind of darkness, even deeper darkness, as well as telepathy out to 10' per HD.
It also gains the evil and lawful subtypes, and its natural attacks and any weapon it wields count as evil and lawful aligned for purposes of bypassing DR.
Horned Hide: The Cornugon gains SR equal to 11+HD, and DR/Good or Silver equal to 1/2 HD. This changes to DR/Silver at 6 HD, and DR/Good & Silver at 12 HD.
Bite: At 3rd level, the Cornugon gains a bite as a secondary natural attack dealing 1d8+1/2 str damage.
Infernal Summoning: At 4th level, the Cornugon gains the ability to summon its brethren. Once per day the Cornugon can cast Summon Monster II as an SLA, with a duration of 1 minute/level instead of 1 round/level. Every 2 class levels from there on, it progresses to the next summon monster spell, culminating at Summon Monster VIII at level 16. HD outside from Cornugon HD count as 1/2 class levels for this purpose, so with 16 levels of Cornugon and 4 levels of anything else, the Cornugon can get up to Summon Monster IX.
The Cornugon can only summon LE or NE monsters.
Powerful Build: At 4th level, the Cornugon gains the powerful build ability.
Flight: At 5th level, the Cornugon's wings grow strong enough to lift it properly. It can fly at a rate of 50 ft., with average maneuverability.
Tail: At 5th level, the Cornugon gains a tail attack dealing 1d6+1/2 str damage.
Magic Circle: At 6th level, the Cornugon can, as a standard action, gain the effects of both a magic circle against good & a magic circle against chaos spells, as if using them both as an SLA in the same standard action. It may do this a number of times per day equal to 1/2 HD.
Destroyer: At 7th level, the Cornugon may cast Lightning Bolt and Fireball each once per day for every HD the Cornugon has. DCs are (10+1/2HD+Cha).
Fear Aura: At 8th level, the Cornugon may radiate a 5' radius aura of fear as a free action. Any creature in the area must succeed on a DC (10+1/2 HD+Cha Mod) Will Save or be shaken for the duration of the encounter. Those who succeessfully save cannot be affected again for the next 24 hours.
Growth: At 9th level, the Cornugon loses its powerful build & grows to Large size and gains +1 natural armor.
Stun: At 10th level, whenever the cornugon threatens a critical with a 2 handed weapon, the enemy must succeed on a DC (10+1/2 HD+Str Mod) Fort Save or be stunned for 1d4 rounds (which increases to 2d4 at 15 HD and 3d4 at 20 HD).
Regeneration: At 10th level, the Cornugon gains a regeneration of 1. This increases by an additional 1 every 2 HD beyond 10.
Greater Destroyer: At 11th level, once per day for every 5 HD the Cornugon has, it may choose to cast Flame Strike or Chain Lightning instead of either Fireball or Lightning Bolt. The damage cap for all these spells is removed.
Infernal Wound: Opponents damaged by the Cornugon's tail attack continue to take 2 hp worth of damage every round, which does not heal naturally. This can only be ended by a DC (10+1/2 HD+Con Mod) Heal check or a cure or heal spell which succeeds on a DC (10+1/2 HD+Con Mod) CL check, or it has no effect whatsoever.
Greater Fear Aura: At 12th level, those who fail the will save from the cornugon's aura of fear are frightened instead of shaken.
Natural Power: The damage for all of the Cornugon's natural weapons increases by one step.
Cornugon SLAs: At 12th level, the Cornugon may cast the following spells as SLAs once per day for every 6 HD he has: Dispel Chaos, Dispel Good, Teleport, & Persistent Image.
At 16 HD, the Teleport becomes Greater Teleport instead.
Ultimate Fear Aura: At 14th level, the Cornugon may choose to have enemies who fail their saves against its fear aura cower instead of becoming frightened.
Greater Stun: At 15th level, the effect from Stun now extends to all successful hits (though still requires a save).
Ultimate Destroyer: At 16th level, the casting time for the Cornugon's SLAs under destroyer are reduced to a swift action.
Comments:
SpoilerCome for the awesome basic abilities, stay for the nifty tricks and a decent blasting spell every round as a swift action. It's essentially a warlock with some nifty melee tricks: more of a swift damage dealer/stunner than tank.
Comments? The saves+good BAB+good ability scores may be a bit much, but really, that's what the core cornugon race has to offer: not a bunch of cool abilities, just really potent ones. I wanted to make the blasting spells actually decent, and he can essentially hit you against any save (reflex for blasty spells, fort for stun, will for fear aura).
I really like what I did with the summoning, by the way.
Changelog: Removed good saves, added Versatile devil, added proficiencies, cut down skill points and took out +2 str, +2 dex & +2 con.Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2011-02-07 at 03:34 PM.
Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer
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2010-08-22, 08:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
I don't consider myself particularly good at balance, which is why I've mostly just watched this tread from a safe distance. However, I have noticed something with the Cornugon: it's very, very powerful. As a first level dip, it's awesome. Full bab, all good Saves, +1 Str and Cha, four good natural attacks, and a Natural Armor score based on Str for some reason. Also, as the class is currently worded, it keeps Powerful Build when it goes up to Large. I don't think this is intentional, but that's what it says.
I just felt like it needed to be said. Sure is getting power creep in here.Last edited by Lyndworm; 2010-08-22 at 08:44 PM.
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2010-08-22, 09:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
I'm inclined to agree with Lyndworm. We are seeing some power creep (though some early stuff is borderline OP, it must be said). I myself am guilty of it.
I know Oslecamo doesn't love discussing the subject, but we really should hammer out a point to aim for, as far as general power level and balance.
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2010-08-22, 09:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-08-22, 09:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
[QUOTE=Lyndworm;9201792]I don't consider myself particularly good at balance, which is why I've mostly just watched this tread from a safe distance. However, I have noticed something with the Cornugon: it's very, very powerful.
As a first level dip, it's awesome. Full bab, all good Saves, +1 Str and Cha, four good natural attacks
and a Natural Armor score based on Str for some reason.
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
etc.
Also, as the class is currently worded, it keeps Powerful Build when it goes up to Large. I don't think this is intentional, but that's what it says.
Personally, I think the ability score bonuses shouldn't be to high. The special abilities should be the source of the monster class's power
And I managed to keep it to +2 per level. In the end, it's worse than the giants, as they have a nice round +1 str +1 con: this one 'wastes' ability score bonuses on dexterity and charisma.Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer
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2010-08-22, 09:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
How about a bugbear?
I loves me some bugbears.
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2010-08-23, 04:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
Hey. Hey. Where the heck's my Ghaele Gorgondantess?
(I kid of course, I'm not actually that much of a douchebag. Is it still in the works?)Piratebold-Bard by Elder Tsofu | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
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2010-08-23, 04:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
At least the red dragon doesn't has all good saves, and it only gets three nat attacks.
Also you didn't give the cornugon any proefeciencies, altough giving them would make it even more overpowered. But the picture clearly shows it with a whip.
Plus keep standard skills. There's no predecent to 3+int skill points per level and anyway it should definetely be 2 per level with all the goodies it gets.
Why the pimped SR? It already has caster tricks of his own like dispel magic and teleport.
Yes, but at least the giants have one single good save and medium Bab.
Double ability scores every level should be reserved to classes with little on the way of nifty abilities. The cornugon (and dragons for the matter), with plenty of nifty abilities (DR, SR, flying, more SLAs that you can shake a stick at), should only get double ability scores here and there to fill blank levels or at higher levels.
If there needs to be any power basis, it shall be the dragons. There wasn't really a power creep. There were just monsters that ended up too weaker than the dragons. Because the dragons came first and were the ones I spent more work designing.
Anyway, the cornugon definetely goes over dragon level and that's bad. I've said it once and I'll say it again, all good saves and good Bab should be reserved for monsters with some really limiting characteristic, like the phoenix that has no hands and no great melee capacity.
EDIT: Nerfed the Spellwarped creature, making it unable to absorb any and every magic now. In return it gets a good will save, and two extra ability score increases at second level. Toughts?Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-08-23 at 05:21 AM.
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2010-08-23, 05:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
Can I take Half-Golem more than once?
Piratebold-Bard by Elder Tsofu | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
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2010-08-23, 05:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-08-23, 07:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
On the subject of too many natural attacks at first level.
I tend to give natural attacks over the levels. At 1st level, give the primary natural weapon (one bite or two claws), and later on give the secondaries (not all at once, of course), or make some similar change.
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2010-08-23, 10:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
True: on the saves thing, I wasn't sure which save to be good, so I just gave it all saves as good. And if you suggest it should get good fort saves, I'll hit you. The Cornugon isn't a big "Hulk smash!" guy.
Eh, screw it, I'll let the players choose.
Also you didn't give the cornugon any proefeciencies, altough giving them would make it even more overpowered. But the picture clearly shows it with a whip.
Plus keep standard skills. There's no predecent to 3+int skill points per level and anyway it should definetely be 2 per level with all the goodies it gets.
Why the pimped SR? It already has caster tricks of his own like dispel magic and teleport.
And, eh, that's the SR it gets in the SRD.
Yes, but at least the giants have one single good save and medium Bab.
Double ability scores every level should be reserved to classes with little on the way of nifty abilities. The cornugon (and dragons for the matter), with plenty of nifty abilities (DR, SR, flying, more SLAs that you can shake a stick at), should only get double ability scores here and there to fill blank levels or at higher levels.
If there needs to be any power basis, it shall be the dragons. There wasn't really a power creep. There were just monsters that ended up too weaker than the dragons. Because the dragons came first and were the ones I spent more work designing.
Anyway, the cornugon definetely goes over dragon level and that's bad. I've said it once and I'll say it again, all good saves and good Bab should be reserved for monsters with some really limiting characteristic, like the phoenix that has no hands and no great melee capacity.
Hey. Hey. Where the heck's my Ghaele Gorgondantess?
(I kid of course, I'm not actually that much of a douchebag. Is it still in the works?)Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-08-23 at 11:01 AM.
Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer
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2010-08-23, 11:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
Well, it is "Hulk smash you so hard you can't move!" guy. And you gave it d10 HD when all the other devils have been geting a d8.
BTW, your Stun ability works whetever they make the save or no right now.And it still has all good saves.Ah good you corrected it.
Why any? They're clearly specialized in spiked chains.
Nevermind, confused it with the dispel good and chaos.
It also gets base 31 Str, at will SLAs and other stuff that isn't apropriate for players. We've already gone trough this, we don't just copy-pasta the monster statistics.
Looks much better that way.
If you don't hurry up I'll end up doing it myself.Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-08-23 at 11:13 AM.
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2010-08-23, 06:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
I gave the Vrock d10. It's still tough.
BTW, your Stun ability works whetever they make the save or no right now.And it still has all good saves.Ah good you corrected it.
Why any? They're clearly specialized in spiked chains.
It also gets base 31 Str, at will SLAs and other stuff that isn't apropriate for players. We've already gone trough this, we don't just copy-pasta the monster statistics.
If you don't hurry up I'll end up doing it myself.Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer
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2010-08-23, 06:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
Besides you I haven't met a single one like that but you do have a point. Meh spiked chain's the best exotic weapon anyway so not much chances of cheese.
Golems, the dudes wich are suposed to shrugg off magic like it's nothing. That's why I didn't complain there.
EDIT: Spoted at will-slas. Out. Don't care if they're evocations. Also give them acess to both fireball and lighting bolt.Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-08-23 at 06:57 PM.
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2010-08-23, 07:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
My thoughts exactly. I might decide to just make it a two-handed exotic weapon, though.
Golems, the dudes wich are suposed to shrugg off magic like it's nothing. That's why I didn't complain there.
EDIT: Spoted at will-slas. Out. Don't care if they're evocations. Also give them acess to both fireball and lighting bolt.
I meant to give it access to both... I just worded it very, very badly.Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-08-23 at 07:04 PM.
Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer
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2010-08-23, 07:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
I think the problem with at-will SLAs is that they're at-will. Even dragon breath, an ability that's a staple of a dragon, is only once every 1d4 rounds.
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2010-08-23, 07:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer
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2010-08-23, 07:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
One of the basic rules of this project. At-will SLAs are bad because it's much easier to abuse an infinite resource than a finite one.
You see fireball's range? How many things can match that?(not eldritch blast you can bet) And the horned devil can fly on top of that. Suddenly the horned devil doesn't care at all that he's good with two handed weapons or whatever. He just flies really high and keeps nuking. Suspicious of hiding oponents? Lit the whole room on fire! Need to assault a fortress? Melt it down with a few hundred fireballs. Simply put your Horned devil can solve pretty much any problem with fire and some patience.
That's why at-will SLAs are out. So you can't just say "I drop a hundred fireballs on it from afar" and go have a soda.
The warlock is balanced by the fact it has acess only to very nerfed "spells" and knows very little of them.
Then design new abilities not based on at-will SLAs. That's our work here.Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-08-23 at 07:14 PM.
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2010-08-23, 07:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
Yes Eldritch Blast, I can bet. A warlock can do all that and more with eldritch spear. 250' range- same as a 15th level fireball. And something with evasion or fire immunity will still lose against it. I really don't see the problem.
The warlock is balanced by the fact it has acess only to very nerfed "spells" and knows very little of them.
Then design new abilities not based on at-will SLAs. That's our work here.
SpoilerFlames as bright as a torch appear in your open hand for one minute/HD. The flames harm neither you nor your equipment.
In addition to providing illumination, the flames can be hurled or used to touch enemies. You can strike an opponent with a melee touch attack, dealing fire damage equal to 1d6 +1 point per HD (maximum +5). Alternatively, you can hurl the flames up to 120 feet as a thrown weapon. When doing so, you attack with a ranged touch attack (with no range penalty) and deal the same damage as with the melee attack. No sooner do you hurl the flames than a new set appears in your hand. Each attack you make reduces the remaining duration by 1 minute. If an attack reduces the remaining duration to 0 minutes or less, the spell ends after the attack resolves.
This ability does not function underwater.
But Produce Flame as an at will SLA is not okay? Pardon me, but that strikes me as quite illogical.Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer
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2010-08-23, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
Fireball has 400 foot range +40 per CL. At 15th CL that's 1000 feet. Over four times the warlock range, after he burned one of his valuable invocations.
Stuff with fire immunity isn't that common. Fire resistance yes, but not full fire immunity. And neither does evasion fully protect from it. So yes, there's a problem with extreme-range attacks that end up dealing some damage. You can hurt them. They cannot hurt you. Victory is yours.
It's stronger than cleric unless they happen to have some high mobility trick. This is a bad thing.
Of course not a perfect copy of the spell. Something shorter ranged scaling by level that even at level 20 would be inferir to a pure produce flame.Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-08-23 at 07:37 PM.
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2010-08-23, 07:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
*facepalm*
Right. That's what I get for assuming fireball has a medium range.
Stuff with fire immunity isn't that common. Fire resistance yes, but not full fire immunity. And neither does evasion fully protect from it. So yes, there's a problem with extreme-range attacks that end up dealing some damage. You can hurt them. They cannot hurt you. Victory is yours.
Flying. Ranged attacks. They work.
It's stronger than cleric unless they happen to have some high mobility trick. This is a bad thing.
Of course not a perfect copy of the spell. Something shorter ranged scaling by level that even at level 20 would be inferir to a pure produce flame.Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer
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2010-08-23, 07:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
Some ranged attacks work better than others. A bow doesn't allow you to take down a fortress (unless you spend a small fortune in adamantine arrows) and rays don't allow you to carpet bomb an area to flush out hidden enemies. Plus both of them are easily blocked by some cover. Fireball isn't. At will it becomes simply too good.
Clerics rely on short/medium range offensive spells to deal with oponents at range. Or wind wall to shut down regular ranged weapons.
Clerics at best have air walk to fly around unless they take a specific domain. But they're also wearing heavy armor.
Cleric can shrugg off fireballs for some time with healing and resistance buffs but they will go down because they're still being worn down whitout being able to strike back.
What CR is that one again? I don't remember from wich book it is now.Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-08-23 at 08:02 PM.
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2010-08-23, 08:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
While they're from Dire Animals, they're not 100% unsuitable. The Dire Shark's Swallow Whole would work for a Large or Huge size AA that's half snake or half shark. They're still animals, just really nasty and vastly stronger/more dangerous versions.
I like the class. If I didn't hate the character creation process with a passion and had the time to fit in another game, I'd be looking to use this.
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2010-08-23, 08:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
Le sigh.
Fine, fine, I'll cut it down to once per day/HD.
What CR is that one again? I don't remember from wich book it is now.
Also, if you have any ideas on abilities that might be related to being a boatman without being highly situational, please do tell. I was thinking of giving it a skiff that would work like a phantom steed.Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer