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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    rayne_dragon's Avatar

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    Default 4e: Which party member is the worst to have dominated?

    The short version - exactly what it says on the tin, in 4e, which party member would be the worst to have dominated, either in your own game or just from a generic rules perspective?

    The reason I'm asking is an interesting situation came up last session. It was late and about half of the players wanted to go home, but we decided to open one last room. It just so happened that the room we looked in had a bunch of monsters and an altar that had the ability to dominate up to two people a round... however it was a small room, so I told the DM that I just Wall of Fire the whole thing, end of encounter. He told us what the altar could do afterwards and we started discussing who the worst person to have dominated would be. We couldn't decide between the knight (a hybrid paladin/fighter) with his high AC or my wizard (who's two levels higher than the rest of party) who has the highest attack bonuses in the party and area of effect attacks.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    oxybe's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4e: Which party member is the worst to have dominated?

    depends.

    -if the party is weak, having the Leader dominated and unable to heal is REALLY crappy.
    -having the striker dominated can be pretty terrifying if he's good at his job & supplementing a focused enemy assault.
    -having the defender stand aside and then disrupt the party can be a real pain
    -having the controller nuke the party from the get-go, giving the enemies more setup time can be disheartenting.

    there is no "worst" member... it's pretty bad all things considered

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Oracle_Hunter's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4e: Which party member is the worst to have dominated?

    Is there a Striker? Because they'd be the worst to have Dominated. Remember that Dominated characters can only fire off their At-Wills; your Scorching Burst is not going to terrify me, while a Rogue with CA does
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    Titan in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: 4e: Which party member is the worst to have dominated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
    Is there a Striker? Because they'd be the worst to have Dominated. Remember that Dominated characters can only fire off their At-Wills; your Scorching Burst is not going to terrify me, while a Rogue with CA does
    Dominated characters can't flank, though, so the Rogue would need CA from somewhere else.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4e: Which party member is the worst to have dominated?

    Barbarian.

    Defender HP, Striker Damage, powerful at-wills and potentially defender AC too, if he's built a certain way.

    God forbid he's already begun raging.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    erikun's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4e: Which party member is the worst to have dominated?

    Only one action limits most strikers - that's no Hunter's Quarry, no Warlock's Curse, no Assassin's Shroud. Well, you could, but the dominated party member could not attack afterwards.

    Rather, dominated/dazed prevents immediate and opportunity actions, which is most devistating against the party Defender. It completely removes the abilities of Fighters, Wardens, and Swordmages from using their defender abilities to attack the enemy, lock them down, or reduce damage. Even the Shielding Swordmage requires an immediate action to activate.

    For everyone else, they're tossing a single at-will attack at a likely unflanked ally. This can be really bad in certain situations - from a raging Barbarian, or when needing a leader heal - but these seem slightly more situational. Dominating the defender will always stop the defender from defending.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Oracle_Hunter's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4e: Which party member is the worst to have dominated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    Dominated characters can't flank, though, so the Rogue would need CA from somewhere else.
    Heh, forgot all about that update.

    Still, I'd worry more about a Striker for doing actual harm. Taking out a Defender or Leader when they are needed will of course be devastating, but that's true for anyone.

    I mean, what if you had a Ranger who had someone to Twin Strike?

    EDIT: Erikun raises an excellent point. Dominating a Shielding Swordmage would probably be the worst then.
    Last edited by Oracle_Hunter; 2010-02-20 at 08:15 PM.
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    Orc in the Playground
     
    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: 4e: Which party member is the worst to have dominated?

    It also depends on the situation.

    Dominate the wizard, who then thunderwaves the leader into the bad guys for a 3-way flanked beat down. or off a ledge or into a trap.

    Dominate the defender who turns and charges the farthest away member of the party leaving the rest of the back line open (especially if the party is short on melee)

    Dominate the leader when the party has been beat downand needs healed (because they've been saving them)

    Not to mention ending rages, stances, or maintained powers

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4e: Which party member is the worst to have dominated?

    Quote Originally Posted by rayne_dragon View Post
    The short version - exactly what it says on the tin, in 4e, which party member would be the worst to have dominated, either in your own game or just from a generic rules perspective?
    The striker, hands down. That's because a striker can plausibly bring down one of his teammates in a single turn. PCs have much less hit points than monsters, and do much more damage.

    Exception: if anyone is using a sustain power, dominating them ends the power; this may be good against e.g. certain cleric or wizard powers. But overall, the only thing you can do as a dominator is use at-wills, and at-wills are most about damage. So pick the at-wills that do the most, and that's the striker.
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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: 4e: Which party member is the worst to have dominated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    The striker, hands down. That's because a striker can plausibly bring down one of his teammates in a single turn. PCs have much less hit points than monsters, and do much more damage.

    Exception: if anyone is using a sustain power, dominating them ends the power; this may be good against e.g. certain cleric or wizard powers. But overall, the only thing you can do as a dominator is use at-wills, and at-wills are most about damage. So pick the at-wills that do the most, and that's the striker.
    You know...I read a Wolverine story where he had been brainwashed and sent after the X-Men. I think it was written by Mark Millar.

    Anyway...in general I think that as a character, Wolverine has been mined for every bit of narrative gold he has to give, and is really just taking up space. And his costume is just silly. However, this one story did a really good job of impressing upon the reader just how utterly, pants wettingly terrifying someone like Wolverine can be when he's not on your side.

    In that regard...a dominated striker is a scary prospect.

    However, I find myself agreeing more with Shardan's assertion that dominating any other member of the party is potentially more crippling...since domination effects aren't just a flavorful way of doing damage, they also effectively remove a card from the party's hand, if only temporarily.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: 4e: Which party member is the worst to have dominated?

    I'd say the worst character to become dominated is whichever character you're playing, because then you are just watching.
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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4e: Which party member is the worst to have dominated?

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    I'd say the worst character to become dominated is whichever character you're playing, because then you are just watching.
    Well, at least you can still do something. Being stunned is more boring for you (albeit better for the party).
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  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Hal's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4e: Which party member is the worst to have dominated?

    I'd say whoever can't make a saving through to save their life.
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