A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Drawing a Weapon from an HH

    Normally, you can draw a weapon as a free action as a part of a move action(if your BAB is +1 or better), but what if the weapon is in an HH, can you still draw it that way?
    Last edited by BenTheJester; 2010-02-21 at 07:29 PM.

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    Yuki Akuma's Avatar

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    Default Re: Drawing a Weapon from an HH

    No, because you're not drawing a weapon. You're retrieving a stowed item from your handy Haversack.
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    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: Drawing a Weapon from an HH

    I dunno if this relates to what you're doing, but in the interest of making a crappy feat better, I personally wouldn't object to folks using a HH to draw a weapon (provided you had the quickdraw feat). Just one guy's opinion, though.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Drawing a Weapon from an HH

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallavast View Post
    I dunno if this relates to what you're doing, but in the interest of making a crappy feat better, I personally wouldn't object to folks using a HH to draw a weapon (provided you had the quickdraw feat).
    Deciding this issue is dependent on something that's never covered in the rules: the relative priority of feats and magic item descriptions.

    Heward's Handy Haversack has the same retrieval properties as a scabbard: retrieving an item is normally a move action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Quick Draw says that retrieving a weapon becomes a free action instead of a move action -- and doesn't specify where that weapon is stowed. So which takes priority: the magic item description, or the feat? The nature of feats is to change the rules, so I think they take priority; that means that Quick Draw works identically with a HHH or a scabbard.
    Last edited by Curmudgeon; 2010-02-22 at 01:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Drawing a Weapon from an HH

    It's decided pretty well, and clarified in the handy haversack description:
    Quote Originally Posted by jackattack View Post
    "Retrieving any specific item from a [handy] haversack is a move action, but it does not provoke the attacks of opportunity that retrieving a stored item usually does."
    Retrieving a stored item is a move action that (usually) provokes an attack of opportunity. It is a distinct action from drawing a weapon. It occurs any time you get an item from a backpack or bag or such, the haversack text merely confirms this.

    So RAW is no. But it seems like whatever you're trying to do there should be other ways. For example if you want a dozen daggers, carrying a dozen sheaths does not seem unreasonable.
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    Default Re: Drawing a Weapon from an HH

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    So RAW is no. But it seems like whatever you're trying to do there should be other ways. For example if you want a dozen daggers, carrying a dozen sheaths does not seem unreasonable.
    If you've got the Str score to handle it, carrying them in full-view is down-right mandatory!
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Drawing a Weapon from an HH

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    It's decided pretty well, and clarified in the handy haversack description:

    Retrieving a stored item is a move action that (usually) provokes an attack of opportunity. It is a distinct action from drawing a weapon. It occurs any time you get an item from a backpack or bag or such, the haversack text merely confirms this.

    So RAW is no. But it seems like whatever you're trying to do there should be other ways. For example if you want a dozen daggers, carrying a dozen sheaths does not seem unreasonable.
    Or just take an Efficient(Ehlonna's) Quiver

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    Default Re: Drawing a Weapon from an HH

    My DM once (in a FAR earlier campaign) had homebrewed a "Half-Garillion" Thri-Kreen Ninja/Monk/Master Thrower for us to fight. It had 8 arms, all of which were Thri-Kreen-esq, though more buff, and it had a Cape of Blades which it drew somewhere in the ballpark of 350-400 Shuriken and hurled them all as a Full Attack, so that was a walking nightmare. Luckly, the cave's support beam had less HP than the "Walking Turret" who literally threw a wall-'o-Shuriken at each PC, often getting the sudden strike via Improved Feint. (Note: we were all near-epic)

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    Default Re: Drawing a Weapon from an HH

    Just buy Gloves of Storing, Glove of the Master Strategist, or a Kimono of Storing. Any of them will let you draw or store weapons as a Free Action. (Funny trick - if you know your DM is using an enemy that focuses on Disarm, Sunder, or Stunning Fist, you can draw your weapons as a Free Action, attack, and then safely store them where they can't be touched. You can theoretically take a Free Action at any time, so you can even use your weapons for AoO. Of course, Free Actions can be limited by DM fiat).

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    Yuki Akuma's Avatar

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    Default Re: Drawing a Weapon from an HH

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    Just buy Gloves of Storing, Glove of the Master Strategist, or a Kimono of Storing. Any of them will let you draw or store weapons as a Free Action. (Funny trick - if you know your DM is using an enemy that focuses on Disarm, Sunder, or Stunning Fist, you can draw your weapons as a Free Action, attack, and then safely store them where they can't be touched. You can theoretically take a Free Action at any time, so you can even use your weapons for AoO. Of course, Free Actions can be limited by DM fiat).
    If you're unarmed you don't provoke AoOs, though, so you'd need to keep a weapon out for that regardless.

    Or take Improved Unarmed Strike, but that's a bit of a waste.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Drawing a Weapon from an HH

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    You can theoretically take a Free Action at any time, so you can even use your weapons for AoO.
    Attacks of opportunity occur on some other character's turn. The normal rule is you can only perform free actions on your turn.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rules Compendium, page 7
    FREE ACTION
    Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. Their impact is so minor that they’re considered free. You can perform one or more free actions during your turn. However, the DM can put reasonable limits on what you can really do for free.
    Exceptions to this rule, such as speaking, are noted explicitly.
    Speak

    In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn’t your turn.

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    Default Re: Drawing a Weapon from an HH

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    If you're unarmed you don't provoke AoOs, though, so you'd need to keep a weapon out for that regardless.

    Or take Improved Unarmed Strike, but that's a bit of a waste.
    Or have gauntlets/spiked gauntlets/armor spikes.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Drawing a Weapon from an HH

    Spiked gauntlets over the gloves?
    As far as I'm aware you can wear spiked gauntlets and wield weapons, and you'd even provoke (an admittantly rather meek) AoO 'unarmed'

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    Default Re: Drawing a Weapon from an HH

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulture View Post
    Spiked gauntlets over the gloves?
    Fine, then one spiked glove, one glove of storing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kulture View Post
    As far as I'm aware you can wear spiked gauntlets and wield weapons, and you'd even provoke (an admittantly rather meek) AoO 'unarmed'
    If you got several weapons in your hands, you get to select which one to do the AoO with, I think.

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    Default Re: Drawing a Weapon from an HH

    I found myself with a similar question, what if a mage keeps his spell components (or foci) in a HH, does he have to take a move action to pull them out or is that considered part of the spell casting (like drawing components out of a component pouch)?

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Drawing a Weapon from an HH

    Quote Originally Posted by unre9istered View Post
    what if a mage keeps his spell components (or foci) in a HH, does he have to take a move action to pull them out
    Yes, because there's no exception noted for drawing components from other than a spell component pouch.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Drawing a Weapon from an HH

    Quote Originally Posted by jackattack View Post
    I'm assuming that the difficulty in getting something out of the haversack is that it is assumed to be on the character's back, or over a shoulder, or in one hand while something is being retrieved. A pouch worn in front (a spiffy sporran, perhaps?) doesn't have that limitation, and spell components would be at the ready.
    Spell component pouches have a specific statement that makes them not be a retrieval issue:
    Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch.
    Otherwise, it's up to each individual DM to decide if some other container has an exception to the default rule:
    In most cases, moving or manipulating an item is a move action.

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