the angry old man

[Soranar]

Trying to come up with a character (not a spellcaster, so no druid, cleric, wizard, sorcerer, psionic, etc) thats venerable and play it despite the huge cost (-6 to all physical stats, ouch) without coping out by either transforming, playing a race that doesn't age or applying a template that nullifies ageing.

So far I don't have much. I would start at level 6 so it doesn't have to be playable from level 1.

It's a 32 pts buy, any WOTC material is allowed.

The only dragon mag feat allowed is serenity.

I was thinking dwarf, to ignore Dex with Deepwarden (and a fullplate), maybe dip into paladin (with serenity) to fix my saves a bit. Or make some kind of swashbuckler build?

[drengnikrafe]

I want you to think about what you're saying here. A character who once had an 18 in a stat will now be a 12.

In any case, I'm seeing some sort of rogue. Primarily a social-based rogue (since that's the only thing he's going to be good at), but uses a bow. Sneak attack is one of the only things I can think of to keep damage at a decent level despite your trashed physical stats.

[Kylarra]

I'd head into Soulbow.

Something like Factotum2/soulknife3/Soulbow X maybe? Factotum's ability to shunt INT bonus into everything allows for passive defenses and Zen Archery + Soulbow would give you Wis to hit and damage with decent ranged attacks.

Although really you could probably play it straight with just a factotum, but then you'd be getting into "caster-y" tricks after a point.

[arguskos]

Warlock. It's kinda a caster, but not really. He gains something from high mental stats, Eldritch Blast being a touch attack helps offset the fact that your Dex is gonna be 12 or so, and Invocations can help with the perception that his age has given him some good tricks to get out of situations his reduced physical body can no longer handle.

[Tinydwarfman]

Look up X stat to Y bonus, and get CHA or WIS to EVERYTHING!

[arguskos]

Look up X stat to Y bonus, and get CHA or WIS to EVERYTHING!

X Stat to Y Bonus. Yay bookmarks!

[ericgrau]

I want you to think about what you're saying here. A character who once had an 18 in a stat will now be a 12.

In any case, I'm seeing some sort of rogue. Primarily a social-based rogue (since that's the only thing he's going to be good at), but uses a bow. Sneak attack is one of the only things I can think of to keep damage at a decent level despite your trashed physical stats.

Sneak atta- awww a miss. Rogue AB is already low enough as it is. Not to mention his HP. A skillmonkey could work, except the first bad roll on a trap and he'll be shredded into tiny bits.

[drengnikrafe]

Sneak atta- awww a miss. Rogue AB is already low enough as it is. Not to mention his HP. A skillmonkey could work, except the first bad roll on a trap and he'll be shredded into tiny bits.

Therein lies the inherent problem with going venerable. You go spellcaster, you go cheese, or you go down in flames.

[ericgrau]

Hmm, maybe a character that never sets foot in a dungeon and stays at least a mile away from all dragons. He could pump gather information, diplomacy, forgery, and knowledges. When the party needs to deal with pesky things like NPCs and plot, they ask him. When they roll initiative, he breaks out cell phone bowling as his PC is still in town. Or maybe if this were a cohort it'd work better.

[Beorn080]

If you have the ability to do so, take a good number of your levels before going venerable, assuming you don't need the int boost for skills. Assuming Con drops aren't retroactive with aging, you might want to see if just that could be houseruled in.

Aside from that, perhaps a retired paladin, recently shaking off the shackles of contemplation to once again lead a campaign against evil? A dwarven paladin would fit.

[drengnikrafe]

Your character is an amazing NPC. Or cohort, you're absolutely right. I don't see any sane person looking to have fun playing this.
Or... maybe... They could, if they like that playstyle. If their DM runs a plot-heavy campaign. That'd be great. For kick in the door, the PC would just rust. I'm not sure how, but he would.

[Soranar]

Alright , I thought of 3 options so far

1rst (based on intuitive strike)

swordsage/swashbuckler (use those high mental stats for something)

get your Wis to damage on strikes, and your Int to damage on all attacks

weapon: dagger, use intuitive strike to hit

2nd (based on intuitive strike)

pure swordsage, unarmed version

let's you concentrate on Wis only, you get more strikes/day to deliver proper damage

3rd (based on zen archery)

Fighter + variant Barbarian (lose rage , gain archery feats like a ranger and favored ennemy)

fighter 4/Barbarian 2

feats: weapon focus, exotic weapon proficiency (greatbow), weapon specialization, zen archery,point blank shot


So far the best race I could come up with was an earth Dwarf + the dragonborn template (to fix Con somewhat), I don't bother trying to have any Dex, at -8 the 1 minimum sounds good.

And of course I realize how unoptimal these builds are. I take the dragonborn immunity to paralysis in case of Dex damage.

[herrhauptmann]

It's a shame 3rd party isn't allowed. I think it was Mongoose who did it, but a 5 level PrC based on one of those old country hicks who seems to be carved from teak.
You know, the dude who eats raw chicken and rotten fish everyday, washes it down with a jug of moonshine, constantly chewing tobacco or smoking a cigar. And dang, can he kick the butts of any person who's asking for it.

I think some effects of the PrC was that your maximum age would get recalculated, you gained d12 HD, mettle, and god only knows what else.

[Runestar]

You know, dragonwrought kobolds don't get the stat penalties for aging...

[Soranar]

You know, dragonwrought kobolds don't get the stat penalties for aging...

you're probably joking, but I made sure to point out the idea was not to avoid the penalties

[Runestar]

you're probably joking, but I made sure to point out the idea was not to avoid the penalties

Well, now that we have put "tempting the OP to try something else" part out of the way...

Not entirely build specific, but insightful reflexes lets you use your int instead of dex for reflex saves. I think there is a feat called initiate of the faeries or something that lets you use your int to determine extra hp instead of con (but must be taken at 1st lv). Not sure if you have to be a spellcaster though. Also, I think it might be a dragon-mag feat.

Zen archery lets you use your wis on ranged attacks. I agree that ranger3/soulknife2/soulbow1 seems the most viable to me at the moment.