New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 59
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    biggrin [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    I was fooling around with the idea of a PrC for spellcasters that doesn't advance spellcasting. Here's the result.

    Meta-Mage
    General
    Abilities: The most important one will be whatever the primary spellcasting stat is. Con is also fairly important.
    Hitdie: d4

    Prerequisites
    Able to cast 3rd level spells
    Eschew Materials and Quicken Spell feats

    Class Skills
    The Meta-Mage’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
    Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

    The Table
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Superb metamagic|Limitations

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Dispel Resistance, +2 int/wis/cha|-

    3rd|
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Extra Spells, Protected Mage|-

    4th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Refreshed, +4 int/wis/cha|-

    5th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Flexibility, Multispell bonus feat|-

    6th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Improved Multispell, +6 int/wis/cha|-

    7th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Purely Mental|-

    8th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Practiced, +8 int/wis/cha|-

    9th|
    +4
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |Quick Thinker, Multispell bonus feat|-

    10th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Not so fragile, +10 int/wis/cha|- [/table]

    Class Features
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency
    Meta Mages gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

    Limitations
    You cannot cast 9th level spells while a member of this prestige class.

    Suberb Metamagic (Ex)
    If you are a spontaneous spellcaster you get a number of levels of "free" metamagic equal to your Meta-Mage level per round. These can be used to reduce the level cost of any metamagic to a minimum of 1. Applying metamagic to spells no longer increases their casting time to a full-round action.
    If you are a prepared spellcaster then you may reduce metamagic costs to a minimum of 1 when preparing spells but you may not cast spells in a round whose total "free" metamagic is greater than your Meta-Mage level.

    For example a Sorcerer 10/Meta-Mage 3 could cast a quickened fly and a maximized fireball in one round using two level 5 slots (this would use up all her free metamagic for that round), but could not cast an Empowered, Extended, Ice Storm as each of those metamagic modifications cannot be mitigated down lower than 1 and as a result the whole spell would take up a 6th level slot.

    Dispel Resistance (Ex)
    You add your Meta-Mage level to the DC of attempts to dispel spells cast by you.

    +X int/wis/cha (Ex)
    You choose whether this bonus will be a bonus to int, wis or cha when entering this class. It is an untyped bonus.

    Extra Spells (Ex)
    You gain 1 extra spell slot of every level you can cast. This increases to 2 at level 6 and 3 at level 9. If you later gain access to higher level spell slots then your bonus spell slots from Extra Spells applies to them too.

    Protected Mage (Ex)
    The Pierce Magical Protection, Pierce Magical Concealment and Mage Slayer feats do not work when used against you.
    In addition, spells you cast can resist being suppressed by an antimagic field with a caster level check (DC=10+CL of antimagic field). If the spell has a duration longer than instantaneous then you may add the bonus you get from Dispel Resistance to the result of this check.

    Refreshed (Ex)
    Once per day as a full-round action you may replenish your spells/spell slots just as if you had rested for the day. Obviously, if you are a prepared spellcaster you may change your spell selection as desired upon doing this as long as you've already got your new spell list written down (no ten minute pauses in the middle of combat please!).

    Flexibility (Ex)
    If you are a spontaneous spellcaster then you gain one (increasing to two at 8th level and three at 10th level) more spell known for each of the levels of spells you can cast. eg. a sorceror 6/Meta-Mage 8 would gain 2 1st, 2 2nd and 2 3rd level spell known.
    If you are a prepared spellcaster then you gain one extra spell slot of each spell level you are able to cast. You may cast any spell you know from these extra spell slots even if you haven't prepared it just as if you were a spontaneous spellcaster.

    Multispell bonus feat (Ex)
    You gain multispell as a bonus feat even if you do not meet the prerequisites.

    Improved Multispell (Ex)
    Once per round you may cast a quickened spell you have prepared as an immediate action. This counts against the number of quickened spells you can cast per round (if used when it's not your turn then subtract 1 from the number of quickened spells you can cast next round).

    Purely Mental (Ex)
    All spells you cast are automatically silent and stilled.

    Practiced (Ex)
    Once per day you may pick one spell you can cast. You gain that spell as a spell like ability, usable int/wis/cha modifier (depending on which you chose) times for the next 24 hours. If the spell has an XP cost or a costly material component you must pay that price every time you use the spell like ability.

    Quick Thinker (Ex)
    All standard action spells you cast are automatically quickened, for the price of one level of your Superb Metamagic ability instead of the usual four, whether you like it or not (this would decrease the number of standard action spells you could cast in a round but you get another multispell at this level so it stays the same).
    This means that the very act of casting a spell uses up one level of free metamagic for that round.

    Not so fragile (Su)
    You add your int/wis/cha modifier as an enhancement bonus to all your other stats (str, con, dex, ect.). This ability does not function while you are polymorphed into another creature (yes, I know you were looking forward to being a Huge str 50 Fire Giant but sometimes sacrifices must be made).

    .

    Now there are a number of problems here:
    Protected Mage doesn't appear to fit the theme.
    I haven't a clue how to evaluate whether or not it's balanced.
    The capstone isn't very interesting.

    My test builds point to it being fairly well balanced* and a lot of fun to play but that's just me.

    * It's truly amazing the number of features you have to pile onto a class to compensate for the lost spellcasting. Pretty much any one of these abilities would be powerful enough on their own for a full 10 level PrC that fully advanced spellcasting.
    Last edited by GoC; 2010-03-17 at 11:50 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mongoose87's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    Well that's... ummm. Hmmm. That's certainly something. What, I'm not quite sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Ring of Evasion means never playing a monk with monk levels again. There is just no reason to dip that stuff. I know we're all about using every part of the buffalo here, but can we just admit that it's inedible?

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose87 View Post
    Well that's... ummm. Hmmm. That's certainly something. What, I'm not quite sure.
    I presume that means you can't evaluate balance?
    Could you evaluate the wording then? Is it clear enough?
    Ideas for a good name?
    Last edited by GoC; 2010-02-22 at 08:36 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    Mage Ascendant? He is so good at using his current spells that he does not need higher level spells.

    btw as far as I can see, it doesn't grant CL increases so finishing this class means you are on par with paladins and rangers CL-wise so forget punching through SR, using the ability to ignore the AMF, blasting, or round/level buffs
    Last edited by lvl 1 sharnian; 2010-02-22 at 08:41 PM.
    The accuracy of this post is questionable

    The Endless Dungeon


    The Neverending Dungeon
    Spoiler
    Show


    Renewal A fantasy/post-apocalyptic/new world setting WIP

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    Quote Originally Posted by lvl 1 sharnian View Post
    Mage Ascendant? He is so good at using his current spells that he does not need higher level spells.
    Pretty much.

    btw as far as I can see, it doesn't grant CL increases so finishing this class means you are on par with paladins and rangers CL-wise so forget punching through SR, using the ability to ignore the AMF, blasting, or round/level buffs
    Punching through SR will require you to use one of those huge number of spell slots to fire off an Assay Spell Resistance.
    The ability to ignore AMFs is weak on purpose as it's part of the anti-mage slayer ability (AMFs made via an antimagic item have a caster level of only 11 which means most of his buffs survive).
    His blasting is slightly better than a pure spellcaster of the same level due to 3 spells/round and metamagic.
    Buffs can be handled by either using free metamagic to extend them or simply using the huge number of spell slots/day that you get (seriously, a sorceror 10/PWNAGE 10 gets around 18 5th level spells per day) to spam persistent versions (though feat starvation IS a problem).
    Last edited by GoC; 2010-02-22 at 08:57 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mongoose87's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    Yeah, the CL thing is an issue- I'd consider making it stack with other classes for purposes of determining CL.

    Hmmm. This could be a very effective blaster. Maybe. I can think of some very funky Epic-Level uses of it, but you would never get Epic WinSpellcasting. Epic's made to be broken, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Ring of Evasion means never playing a monk with monk levels again. There is just no reason to dip that stuff. I know we're all about using every part of the buffalo here, but can we just admit that it's inedible?

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    Interestingly enough, although he can't cast 9th level spells, he can still get 9th level spells; he just needs to take that epic feat that gives you one higher spell slot and Extra spell will give it more and more. Since it's epic by now, might as well tack on Arcane Thesis and Incantrix
    The accuracy of this post is questionable

    The Endless Dungeon


    The Neverending Dungeon
    Spoiler
    Show


    Renewal A fantasy/post-apocalyptic/new world setting WIP

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Melayl's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    In my own little world...
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    Oh, the wording is really quite clear. I think its the balance thats not quite right. I'll try to be gentle...

    Realistically speaking, I don't think any mage would take any PrC other than this one. I mean, really. With this (if you do nothing else, change the name!) class you get:

    Free metamagic cost reduction EVERY ROUND

    A free EPIC casting feat (which lets you cast an extra quickened spell each round -- which is basically free since you get free metamagic reduction -- and all spells are automatically quickened at 9th level)

    An unbelievable +10 to your casting stat (untyped, so it stacks with EVERYTHING else)

    Extra spells for EVERY spell level you can cast (which is basically like +1 level to your existing casting class, although you don't get any higher level spells)

    You then get to DOUBLE all of your spells (and even change them out as a prepared caster)

    Then you get to turn ANY spell you know into an AT WILL SLA, and change that choice every 24 hours

    Then you get basic immunity to some of the few things that can hinder a caster (the mage slayer feats and Antimagic areas)

    By this point, getting to cast a quickened spell as an immediate action is almost negligible in compareson

    All your spells become automatically silent and stilled (with, as written, no increase in spell level -- which wouldn't much matter, since you get the free metamagic reduction)

    Then, to top it all off, you get your primary casting stat bonus (as written, that's the +10) to ALL of your other stats (even if you meant the Modifier, that's still incredibly powerful. Even if it is an enhancement bonus.

    In truth, what caster would choose otherwise? Yes, you don't get higher level spells. But really, do you need 9th level spells when you have all of this? You have an interesting theme here, but I'm really not sure what to do to fix the power issue.

    Melayl
    Custom Melayl avatar by my cousin, ~thejason10, used with his permission. See his work at his Deviant Art page.
    My works:
    Need help?
    Spoiler
    Show
    National Suicide Prevention Lifeline (USA)
    1-800-273-TALK (8255), 24/7
    www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org
    In Australia: Lifeline, 13 11 14, 24/7
    Reach Out Australia
    Beyond Blue, 1300 22 4636
    The Samaritans (UK too) UK: 08457 90 90 90, ROI: 1850 60 90 90

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Temotei's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Minnesota
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    Quote Originally Posted by GoC View Post
    PWNAGE
    General
    Abilities: The most important one will be whatever the primary spellcasting stat is. Con is also fairly important.
    Hitdie: d4
    Good, although your abilities section has some funky wording. It seems like you're trying to be concise and you ended up being too short with it.

    Prerequisites
    Able to cast 3rd level spells
    Eschew Materials and Quicken Spell feats
    I don't like the big focus on Quicken Spell with Multispell and improved multispell, but I suppose...

    Class Skills
    Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), and Spellcraft (Int)
    2+int modifier Skill Points per level
    Don't capitalize "skill points" unless you're going to capitalize that whole line. Your formatting is a bit off as well. Do this: "The PWNAGE’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), and Spellcraft (Int).
    Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier."

    Class Features
    Limitations
    You cannot cast 9th level spells while a member of this prestige class.
    Ouch. That's a huge burn on top of the missing caster levels, which are extremely hurtful.

    Suberb Metamagic
    If you are a spontaneous spellcaster you get a number of levels of "free" metamagic equal to your level in PWNAGE per round. These can be used to reduce the level cost of any metamagic to a minimum of 1. Applying metamagic to spells no longer increases their casting time to a full-round action.
    If you are a prepared spellcaster then you may reduce metamagic costs to a minimum of 1 when preparing spells but you may not cast spells in a round whose total "free" metamagic is greater than your level in PWNAGE.

    For example a Sorcerer 10/PWNAGE 3 could cast a quickened fly and a maximized fireball in one round using two level 5 slots (this would use up all her free metamagic for that round), but could not cast an Empowered, Extended, Ice Storm as each of those metamagic modifications cannot be mitigated down lower than 1 and as a result the whole spell would take up a 6th level slot.
    Cool.

    Multispell bonus feat
    You gain multispell as a bonus feat.
    +X int/cha/wis
    You choose whether this bonus will be a bonus to int, cha or wis when entering this class. It is an untyped bonus.
    Why not inherent?

    Extra Spells
    You gain 1 extra spell slot of every level you can cast. This increases to 2 at level 6 and 3 at level 9. If you later gain access to higher level spell slots then your bonus spell slots from Extra Spells applies to them too.
    Good. I'd say even more spell slots would be in order.

    Dispel Resistance
    You add your PWNAGE level to the DC of attempts to dispel spells cast by you.
    Eh. It's helpful, but situational.

    Refreshed
    Once per day you may replenish your spells/spell slots just as if you had rested for the day. Obviously, if you are a prepared spellcaster you may change your spell selection as desired upon doing this.
    This would be crazy if you actually had spells of a decent level. Seeing as you're stuck with however many spell levels you had when you entered the class, you get a bunch of crappy spells, some good ones, and some really good ones again, but no replacements for the lost caster levels.

    Also, by RAW, this means you have to rest eight hours and then prepare your spells for an hour.

    Practiced
    Once per day you may pick one spell you can cast. You gain that spell as an at will SLA for the next 24 hours. If the spell has an xp cost or a costly material component you must pay that price every time you use the SLA.
    Capitalize XP or spell it out. Spell-like abilities shouldn't be shortened to SLA in a class. That's for informal things.

    Mage-slayer Slayer
    The Pierce Magical Protection, Pierce Magical Concealment and Mage Slayer feats do not work when used against you.
    In addition, spells you cast can resist being suppressed by an antimagic field with a caster level check (DC=10+CL of antimagic field). If the spell has a duration longer than instantaneous then you may add the bonus you get from Dispel Resistance to the result of this check.
    Arbitrary defenses against a character's style? That's just mean. I do like the resistance to antimagic field though. Spells should be italicized, by the way.

    Purely Mental
    All spells you cast are automatically silent and stilled.
    Kind of random, but okay.

    Flexibility
    If you are a spontaneous spellcaster then you gain one more spell known for each of the levels of spells you can cast (eg. a sorceror 6/PWNAGE 8 would gain 1 1st, 1 2nd and 1 3rd level spell known).
    If you are a prepared spellcaster then you gain one extra spell slot per spell level. You may cast any spell you know from these extra spell slots even if you haven't prepared it just as if you were a spontaneous spellcaster.
    That part, by RAW, means if you can cast fourth level spells, you get four spell slots you can put anywhere (most likely in the fourth level spells). Change it to "...you gain one extra spell slot in each spell level you are able to cast."

    Quick Thinker
    All spells you cast are automatically quickened, for the price of one level of your Superb Metamagic ability instead of the usual four, whether you like it or not (this would decrease the number of spells you could cast in a round but you get another multispell at this level so it stays the same).
    This means that the very act of casting a spell uses up one level of free metamagic for that round.
    Fine, I suppose.

    Not so fragile
    You add your int/cha/wis bonus (depending on which you chose) as an enhancement bonus to all your other stats (str, con, dex, ect.).
    Yikes. Beware of munchkins. I don't even like ability score increases. Maybe a cooler capstone would be...cooler.

    I have a suspicion that the wording is a bit unclear.
    In some places.

    Mage-slayer Slayer doesn't appear to fit the theme.
    Indeed.

    I haven't a clue how to evaluate whether or not it's balanced.
    It's horribly underpowered compared to a normal spellcaster.

    What tier do you want this to be, approximately? That will help with critique.

    EDIT: By the gods, six ninja posts.
    Last edited by Temotei; 2010-02-22 at 09:06 PM.
    Homebrew
    Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    I believe it was in response to my suggestion that nothing is worth losing X spellcasting progression levels (I believe the number I threw out there was 5). This is a pretty interesting attempt to make a class that would.

    Really, it's on the right track, though some things are a bit too broken. Many Spell ranks highly on that list.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei221 View Post
    Why not inherent?
    Firstly, thank you for this post! It was REALLY helpful!
    I've implemented most of your suggestions.
    It's not inherent because then the +10 int wouldn't make up for the lost DC due to having low level spells. Though I suppose it might be a good idea to lose a little power in exchange for verisimilitude.

    Good. I'd say even more spell slots would be in order.
    How many?

    Also, by RAW, this means you have to rest eight hours and then prepare your spells for an hour.
    Can you help me with this wording then? Not sure how to modify it.

    Arbitrary defenses against a character's style? That's just mean. I do like the resistance to antimagic field though. Spells should be italicized, by the way.
    Yeah but that's a bit of a weak level and I need some other ability there (it does sortof fit the idea of being a reliable caster than can hang around near the front line without having to fear for his life). Suggestions?

    Kind of random, but okay.
    It has the advantage of allowing casting while wearing armor or in a grapple.

    Yikes. Beware of munchkins. I don't even like ability score increases. Maybe a cooler capstone would be...cooler.
    Like what?

    What tier do you want this to be, approximately? That will help with critique.
    Tiers 1-3 are fine but 2 is what I'm aiming for.

    Melayl: You've listed the class' abilities and said they're overpowered. But I don't actually see any examples of situations where they can be overpowered.

    Heh, I have three people who say they can't evaluate it, one that says it's terribly overpowered and one that says it's terribly underpowered.
    Last edited by GoC; 2010-02-22 at 09:41 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Fortuna's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Long Shiny Cloud-land
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    I can just see entering this class very late, and thereby getting eigth level spells and a good chunk of this class... *shudders*.

    I can't see taking the whole class, though, because that gives up sixth through ninth spells. Giving up ninth level spells for four or five levels in it, though, nets you a hell of a lot, and I would say is about even. And I can just see some serious cheese with Archivists getting spells earlier than intended and then jumping into this class with them... *shudders*
    If I creep into your house in the dead of night and strangle you while you sleep, you probably messed up your grammar.

    I'm always extremely careful to hedge myself against absolute statements.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Random_person View Post
    I can just see entering this class very late, and thereby getting eigth level spells and a good chunk of this class... *shudders*
    Hmm... good point. I should probably move multispell up to level 6 or do as it doesn't even do anything until then unless you're entering really late.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Banned
     
    Milskidasith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    This is... I don't even know. It's beyond my level to judge something like this. Going through it fully, you get a lot, but I don't know if it's worth... well, all spell levels. I'm curious as to just how high of a spell level you can get and take this class fully... with some cheese, you could probably get 6th levels, and all the goodies might make up for it, but I don't know... this hurts. Outside of absurdly optimized builds, it's probably more powerful than straight wizard, but I don't know how good it is if you are optimized.
    Last edited by Milskidasith; 2010-02-22 at 10:46 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    So, what I seem to hear you saying, Milskidasith, is that you are going to be play-testing this at the soonest available opportunity?
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2010-02-22 at 10:55 PM.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Currently Running: Equestria Begins (A High Tactics campaign)
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Banned
     
    Milskidasith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    So, what I seem to hear you saying, Milskidasith, is that you are going to be play-testing this at the soonest available opportunity?
    I don't know of anybody who would allow this. I could playtest it, but who would run it?

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    GM and make this the BBEG? Or do you not GM, or GM for players who don't like alpha-testing stuff that is this nuts?
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2010-02-22 at 11:03 PM.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Currently Running: Equestria Begins (A High Tactics campaign)
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Banned
     
    Milskidasith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    GM and make this the BBEG? Or do you not GM, or GM for players who don't like alpha-testing stuff that is this nuts?
    I am not a good GM. In practice, I'm probably not an exceptional player, either, and I'm definitely not the best optimizer around. I'm just good at noting when things seem OP or UP relative to what I know is good, and have too much free time.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Troll in the Playground
     
    industrious's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Mordor
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    In a gestalt game, this is very very scary. Otherwise, it isn't that bad due to the lack of CLs to make use of all the shiny abilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeafnotDumb View Post
    Silly boy. I've played in Industrious's games. They don't murder characters. That means the torture ends.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aevylmar View Post
    It turns out that sometimes? He *does* murder characters.

    The Maze of Madness

    Campaigns:
    Gotham: Year One
    Earth-52(abandoned) OOC
    RotSE II III] OOC2

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    What kind of action is Refreshed? What kind of an ability is it (Ex, Su, SLA)?
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    What kind of an ability is it (Ex, Su, SLA)?
    Abilities default to Ex if nothing is specified.

    DracoDei: A blaster BBEG? That's going to be very short and very bloody. A straight wizard 11 can do 36d6 damage (twinned scorching ray+quickened scorching ray) per round without any optimization at all (for comparison, a wizard 7/PWNAGE 4 does only 24d6 damage but can do it more times per day).

    Now that I think about it I've realized that PWNAGE is behind a straight wizard in damage until you get Quick Thinker.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    Quote Originally Posted by GoC View Post
    DracoDei: A blaster BBEG?
    Who said anything about Blaster? I was thinking Batman...
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Currently Running: Equestria Begins (A High Tactics campaign)
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Zeta Kai's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The Final Chapter
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    1) This is INSANE.

    2) I like that. You didn't take the easy route of making a PrC, & actually made something cool & unique. It turns the standard caster advancement on its head.

    3) For a better name, I propose the Meta-Mage.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kobold-Bard's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    If you leave this class at Level 4 (once you have refreshed) you can still get 8th level spells, and then use them all over again.

    Hell a 1 level dip costs you 9th level spells, but lets you Quicken all your 7th level spells.

    As mentioned earlier this is the ultimate Gestalt PrC.
    Last edited by Kobold-Bard; 2010-02-23 at 12:50 PM.
    Piratebold-Bard by Elder Tsofu | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
    Quote Originally Posted by OverlordJ View Post
    New law: Obey me or you'll be crushed by a MOUNTAIN.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    Yeah, there is no way in hell this is balanced in Gestalt. It's worse than the Warhulk in that regard.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Melayl's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    In my own little world...
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    Quote Originally Posted by GoC View Post
    Melayl: You've listed the class' abilities and said they're overpowered. But I don't actually see any examples of situations where they can be overpowered.
    I was quite tired when I reviewed and posted (I really shouldn't do that). I'll try to take a look again when I have time and really try to flesh out my reasons then.
    Custom Melayl avatar by my cousin, ~thejason10, used with his permission. See his work at his Deviant Art page.
    My works:
    Need help?
    Spoiler
    Show
    National Suicide Prevention Lifeline (USA)
    1-800-273-TALK (8255), 24/7
    www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org
    In Australia: Lifeline, 13 11 14, 24/7
    Reach Out Australia
    Beyond Blue, 1300 22 4636
    The Samaritans (UK too) UK: 08457 90 90 90, ROI: 1850 60 90 90

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    Yeah, there is no way in hell this is balanced in Gestalt. It's worse than the Warhulk in that regard.
    Indeed, it's definitely not for Gestalt.

    Kobold-Bard: I think you mean a 3 level dip not 1 level dip.

    I still need a better capstone though! I had this idea:

    Buff Routine (Su)
    You can pick a set of targeted, persistable, spells you can cast with spell levels totalling no more than 10. You, your familiar/animal companion and any creatures you summon gain the effects of these spells. Changing your Buff Routine takes 10 minutes of concentration.
    Exception: You cannot polymorph a creature into another creature of greater CR using Buff Routine.

    Is it better or worse than the original?
    Last edited by GoC; 2010-02-23 at 05:17 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kobold-Bard's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    Quote Originally Posted by GoC View Post
    ...Kobold-Bard: I think you mean a 3 level dip not 1 level dip....
    Upon re-reading you may be right. But since you can't get 9th Level Spells anyway, a three level dip is perfectly acceptable.
    Piratebold-Bard by Elder Tsofu | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
    Quote Originally Posted by OverlordJ View Post
    New law: Obey me or you'll be crushed by a MOUNTAIN.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Knaight's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    Quote Originally Posted by GoC View Post
    Mage-slayer Slayer (Ex)
    The Pierce Magical Protection, Pierce Magical Concealment and Mage Slayer feats do not work when used against you.
    In addition, spells you cast can resist being suppressed by an antimagic field with a caster level check (DC=10+CL of antimagic field). If the spell has a duration longer than instantaneous then you may add the bonus you get from Dispel Resistance to the result of this check.
    Unslain Magi is a better name here.
    I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.

    I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that.
    -- ChubbyRain

    Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.

  30. - Top - End - #30

    Default Re: [3.5] A 0/10 progression spellcasting PrC? MADNESS!

    Broken in Gestalt, although I'm sure you weren't trying to balance for that. Even without 9th level spells... +10 to primary casting stat and all those other goodies? Fair trade, I'd say, especially since 8th level spells are just as powerful.

    But I have a question about the Limitations. If a character gains a level that would give them 9th level spells, do they lose the PrC, or do they simply not gain the 9th level spell slots? Or perhaps are they not even allowed to take that level at all?
    It's been a bit, GitP. If you're reading this, you're either digging through old stuff, or I've posted for the first time in forever.

    If you want to stay in touch, reach out to me on twitter (same username).

    The best answer is always to ask your DM.
    Unless you're the DM, in which case you should talk to your players.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •