Help with my Heartwarder-build? [4e]

[Kiyona]

Hello all,

I just finished my heartwarder, and since I am very new to 4e I thought I would put it up on the playground so if there are any stupid choices, you would notice, and hopefully point it out to me.

I was trying to build a very effective defender with some extra healing in case our cleric should need help. The rest of the group are; a ranger (dont know race, but I think he is two weapon fighting), a cleric (again, I have no idea about race or even diety) and dragonborn sorcerer.

Please, if there are any outright stupidities, tell me so I can change them. Also, any suggestions on tactics, or other things to think about is very appreciated.

I present to you, Lady Avanya the Heartwarder and servant of Sune:

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Avanya
Half-elf
Virtous Paladin 10, Heartwarder 1

11 Strength
14 Constitution
13 Dexterity
9 Intelligence
16 Wisdom
23 Charisma

Baldurs gate background benefit (add streetwise to skill list, one extra language, +2 streetwise)

Trained skills
Religion
Diplomacy
Endurance
Insight

Feats
Weapon prof (Bastard sword)
Focused expertise (Bastard sword)
Toughness
Devoted Paladin
Power of trickery
Loving sacrifice
Honoured foe

Powers
Dilettante: Vicious mockery
Lay on hands

Lv 1 At will: Enfeebling strike, Virtous strike
Lv 1 Encounter: Valorous smite
Lv 1 Daily: Majestic halo
Lv 2 Utility: Call of challenge
Lv 3 Encounter: Avengine smite
Lv 5 Daily: Name of might
Lv 7 Encounter: Astral thunder
Lv 9 Daily: Crown of glory
Lv 10 Utility: Cleansing spirit

From Heartwarder:
Sunes touch
Tears of evergold

Sirens voice Lv 11 Encounter

Magic items

Bastard sword of evil undone +2
Immunizing wyrmscale armor +3
Shield of eyes +2 (heavy)
Amulet of mental resolve +2
Survivors belt
Acrobat boots

Unequipped

Reading spectacles
Ruby scabbard
Woundstitch powder

Defenses
AC 29
Fort 21
Reflex 20
Will 24

HP 99
Healing surges 13
Surge value 24

I think that is all... Please ask if there is something I missed.

Thanks in advance, guys!

[Mordokai]

I'd try doing it something like this:

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Avanya, level 11
Half-Elf, Paladin, Heartwarder
Build: Virtuous Paladin
Background: Baldur's Gate (Baldur's Gate Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 14, Dex 13, Int 9, Wis 18, Cha 22.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 11, Dex 12, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 17.


AC: 30 Fort: 20 Reflex: 21 Will: 24
HP: 89 Surges: 13 Surge Value: 22

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +9, Insight +16, Heal +16, Diplomacy +19

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Arcana +4, Bluff +12, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +3, History +4, Intimidate +11, Nature +9, Perception +9, Stealth +2, Streetwise +13, Thievery +4, Athletics +1

FEATS
Level 1: Action Surge
Level 2: Focused Expertise (Longsword)
Level 4: Mark of Healing
Level 6: Devoted Paladin
Level 8: Power of Trickery
Level 10: Bitter Challenge
Level 11: Versatile Master

POWERS
Dilettante: Astral Seal
Lay on Hands: Lay on Hands
Paladin at-will 1: Enfeebling Strike
Paladin at-will 1: Virtuous Strike
Paladin encounter 1: Valorous Smite
Paladin daily 1: Frost of Letherna
Paladin utility 2: Call of Challenge
Paladin encounter 3: Avenging Smite
Paladin daily 5: Name of Might
Paladin utility 6: Divine Bodyguard
Paladin encounter 7: Divine Reverence
Paladin daily 9: Crown of Glory
Paladin utility 10: Font of Healing

ITEMS
Longsword of Evil Undone +2, Veteran's Gith Plate Armor +3, Shield of Speed and Evasion Heavy Shield (heroic tier), Boots of Eagerness (heroic tier), Cloak of the Chirurgeon +2, Gem of Colloquy (heroic tier)

A little higher WIS, a little lower CHA, but this one should give you plenty of healing and some nice defensive tricks. Call of Challenge + Frost of Letherna, sustain minor and every enemy is immobilised UteoynT. Astral Seal becomes at-will for you, thanks to Versatile Master and will enable your allies some healing, as well as saving throws, thanks to Mark of Healing (that is, if your DM allows it). Every Lay on Hands also grants target a saving throw, on that same principle.

All in all, this paladin just became a big leader. Maybe I overdid it... While my builds are usually fun to play (to me at least), they are usually also far from optimised, so you might want to wait for somebody who's better at optimising to come around and do a little better job.

[Yakk]

Loving sacrifice -- questionable (it moves damage around, which is ... meh. Plus as a ranged power, it provokes OAs)
Dilettante: Vicious mockery -- questionable (implement problem)
Power of trickery -- free shift 1? Meh.
Toughness -- no. Skip it. Really.

Mark of Healing -- Touch of Salvation is a better feat for a paragon-tier Paladin. (they get a save, and they get a bonus equal to your cha mod to the save!)

Suggestions:
Forceful Challenge -- if read as RAW, it is ridiculously good. If not, pass on it.
Contagious Challenge -- Double mark plus fun.

Note you can get 2 paragon tier feats by retraining a heroic tier feat at level 11 (well, you get one at level 11, plus one retrain of a heroic tier feat).

[Kiyona]

Mordokai

Thank you, this is really helpful.
I rearranged the ability scores as you suggested, also, DM told me that we are using 24 point buy, so I got to extra points to spend.

I realised looking at your build that I really dont need a bastard sword. I think I chose it out of habit. I have only played strikers.

So I am debating what to take instead. Maybe virtous recovery...

Yakk

Thank you very much as well. All help is greatly appreciated.

Well, loving sacrifice was mostly for flavour. I didnt know that it provoked OA though... thats not good.
I switched vicious mockery for astral sea.
As for power of trickery, I thought it was kind of neat. Especially when comparing to the other available "power of" feats.

I forgot to mention, no eberron or dragon magazine. So no dragon marks unfortunatly.

Note you can get 2 paragon tier feats by retraining a heroic tier feat at level 11 (well, you get one at level 11, plus one retrain of a heroic tier feat).

You do? I couldnt make it work in the character builder, but if DM allows it I will certainly take forceful challenge.

Any heroic feat suggestions in case I cant retrain?

This is the build so far:

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Lady Avanya "Anya", level 11
Half-Elf, Paladin, Heartwarder
Build: Virtuous Paladin
Background: Baldur's Gate, Upperdark Slave, Traveling Missionary, Divinely Inspired, Ward of the Temple (Baldur's Gate Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 16, Dex 13, Int 9, Wis 18, Cha 22.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 13, Dex 12, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 17.


AC: 29 Fort: 21 Reflex: 21 Will: 24
HP: 101 Surges: 14 Surge Value: 25

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +9, Insight +16, Endurance +11, Diplomacy +18

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Arcana +4, Bluff +11, Dungeoneering +9, Heal +9, History +4, Intimidate +11, Nature +9, Perception +9, Stealth +4, Streetwise +13, Thievery +6, Athletics +3

FEATS
Level 1: Focused Expertise (Longsword)
Level 2: Virtuous Recovery
Level 4: Toughness
Level 6: Devoted Paladin
Level 8: Power of Trickery
Level 10: Loving Sacrifice
Level 11: Honored Foe

POWERS
Dilettante: Astral Seal
Lay on Hands: Lay on Hands
Paladin at-will 1: Enfeebling Strike
Paladin at-will 1: Virtuous Strike
Paladin encounter 1: Valorous Smite
Paladin daily 1: Frost of Letherna
Paladin utility 2: Call of Challenge
Paladin encounter 3: Avenging Smite
Paladin daily 5: Name of Might
Paladin utility 6: Wrath of the Gods
Paladin encounter 7: Astral Thunder
Paladin daily 9: Crown of Glory
Paladin utility 10: Cleansing Spirit

ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit, Bottle of Wine, Everburning Torch, Fine Clothing, Symbol of the Champion's Code +2, Shield of Eyes Heavy Shield (heroic tier), Acrobat Boots (heroic tier), Reading Spectacles (heroic tier), Amulet of Mental Resolve +2, Survivor's Belt (paragon tier), Woundstitch Powder (heroic tier), Ruby Scabbard (heroic tier), Riding Horse, Immunizing Wyvernscale Armor +3, Pinning Longsword +3

[Kiyona]

*bump*

I am bumping this thread, just once, to see if I can get some more help. If not I will let it rest.

In any case, thanks for the help guys, you are awesome.

[Yakk]

Drop toughness. Really. Do it. It is not a fun feat, and it is mechanically mediocre.

And yes, the ranged 5 portion means it provokes.

...

To make it work in the character builder, go to the retraining page. Select level 11. Then pick a heroic tier feat on the left.

Now pick a paragon tier feat on the right.

(and yes, the interface sucks!)

...

Note that forceful challenge, by raw, causes the attack to fail quite often. This is too good -- it is a bug. I would actually avoid taking it, because by RAW, it is too good -- and by RAI, it is meh.

Touch of Salvation can be ridiculously good -- you hand out a saving throw with each lay on hands with a +6 bonus. That could win a battle -- but it is situational.

[Kiyona]

Yakk

Thank you so much for your help!

Now I got the character builder to work. Though I noticed that forceful challenge is a dragon magazine power, so it is banned unfortunatly. I am not worried about it being too good. The other players are all very talented at optimizing, especially in 4e. So no matter what I do I think I will be below the rest of the group.

I think I will retrain toughness to touch of salvation. I agree with it being a boring feat, but since both my Fort and Ref defenses are low, I figured more HP was needed, especially as a defender.

I will try and find a better, but still flavourful feat to switch with loving sacrifice. I like the fluff about it, but provoking is no fun.

Do you have any suggestions as to magic items? Are there only sword of evil undone (lv10), and holy avenger (lv25 I think) that works as holy symbols?

[Yakk]

So here is a run at your paladin, done from scratch.

I kept heartwarder and chaladin goal, but didn't look at what you did much other than that.

Cheese used: 3 feats to turn the half-elf power into an at-will that uses charisma to attack. I then picked Magic Weapon (the artificer at-will). This becomes your bread-and-butter attack: stand next to an area effect or multi-tap character (like a ranger) and use magic weapon to grant that striker a +1 to hit and +4 to damage until the end of your next turn (and it works on all allies adjacent to you!)

Everything else, I went for "per-encounter healing" and "mark everything" power wise. I mostly avoided picking up implement powers, and concentrated on weapon powers with good riders.

Your at-wills include:
One as a basic attack (with a minor rider)
One that marks the target if you hit them (12 points of pain mark)
Magic weapon.

Because I find having more encounter powers is fun, I grabbed another divine at-will power (it has to be weapon, because implement rules are currently rather bad -- without MCing into the class, even if you both use holy symbols, your holy symbol doesn't work!)

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Avanya, level 11
Half-Elf, Paladin, Heartwarder
Background: Baldur's Gate (Baldur's Gate Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 14, Dex 13, Int 9, Wis 18, Cha 22.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 11, Dex 12, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 17.


AC: 30 Fort: 20 Reflex: 21 Will: 24
HP: 89 Surges: 13 Surge Value: 22

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +9, Streetwise +18, Intimidate +19, Diplomacy +18, Bluff +16

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Arcana +4, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +3, Heal +9, History +4, Insight +11, Nature +9, Perception +9, Stealth +2, Thievery +2, Athletics +1

FEATS
Level 1: Bardic Dilettante
Level 2: Combat Virtuoso
Level 4: Focused Expertise (Longsword)
Level 6: Devoted Paladin
Level 8: Group Defense (retrained to Honored Foe at Level 11)
Level 10: Religious Dabbler
Level 11: Versatile Master

POWERS
Dilettante: Magic Weapon
Lay on Hands: Lay on Hands
Paladin at-will 1: Virtuous Strike
Paladin at-will 1: Ardent Strike
Religious Dabbler: Overwhelming Strike
Paladin encounter 1: Valorous Smite
Paladin daily 1: Majestic Halo
Paladin utility 2: Call of Challenge
Paladin encounter 3: Righteous Smite
Paladin daily 5: Unyielding Faith
Paladin utility 6: Wrath of the Gods
Paladin encounter 7: Resurgent Smite
Paladin daily 9: Crown of Glory
Paladin utility 10: Benediction

ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit, Heavy Shield, Challenge-Seeking Longsword +3, Screaming Gith Plate Armor +3, Cloak of Distortion +2, Symbol of Dire Fate +2, Bracers of Mighty Striking (heroic tier), Residuum (Any) (280)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

For magic items:
The armor gives a per-encounter "target takes a -2 penalty to hit", and gives a +3 bonus to your intimidate check.

The cloak makes opponents more than 5 squares away from you take a -2 penalty to hit you with ranged attacks.

The symbol gives you a +1 bonus to hit against targets marked by you (which, given your large number of "mark everything in 3 squares" powers, should be whatever you attack).

The long-sword does +2d6 damage on a target at max HP, but does no bonus damage dice on crits. I figure you'll be attacking max HP targets more often than you will be getting crits!

The bracers are used to boost the damage of your basic attack at-will a tad, because I had money left over.

For skills, I went all-out with social. The character has intimidate, diplomacy, bluff and streetwise skills. Together with the MC bard, this makes me thing he used to be a musician before Sune's blessing made the character a Paladin. With the domains of trickery, the bluff/streetwise skills make lots of sense.

How does this compare?

Feats I chose:
3 feats to pull off the half-elf multiclass fun (1 is optional -- the at-will from another divine class isn't very top-notch, but it does give you a positioning power).

1 feat grants you +1 healing surge and +6 healing on lay on hands.

1 feat grants you wis bonus temporary HP whenever a marked target beats on you -- with the mass-marking powers, this will basically soak 4 points of damage from each marked foe.

1 feat to get +1 to hit with longsword powers.

Eventually, you'll want to pickup a sune blessed weapon of some kind, so you can stop having to have both a holy symbol and a sword.

Role-play wise, I'd want to pick up a musical instrument for this Paladin. :)

[Kiyona]

Yakk,

You are wonderful! A whole heep of freshly baked internet cookies for you!

Thank you so much, this build looks much more fun to play. (I actually wanted to play a bard from the beginning, but the leader role was taken. Can you read my mind? ^^)

The only thing I changed was the armor, as awesome as it is, it felt to out of character for her. Right now she has a summoned armor, but I am thinking of changing it back to the screaming armor since it is so much better. Oh, and the cloak I switched for an amulet, I have a feeling that I want to keep my defenses up.

Thank you so much for ypur help, this build is really awesome with just the right amount of cheese. ^^