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Thread: (3.5) lycanthropy
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2010-02-23, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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(3.5) lycanthropy
If you're a lycanthrope and your type changes to monstrous humanoid for some reason (say a template) do you lose the lycanthropy?
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2010-02-23, 03:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: (3.5) lycanthropy
I believe this is where the Augmented Humanoid subtype comes into play. If the stacking is done right, you should retain the Lycanthrope template by virtue of your base race.
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2010-02-23, 03:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: (3.5) lycanthropy
In general effects only check if you qualify when you recieve them. Otherwise you get things like the Dragon Disciple Revolving-Door-Trap (level 10 of the class disqualifies you so you don't get the ability and qualify again giving you the ability...). This is why template stacking works, you make sure it's in an order where you qualify from the previous step, though you can disqualify yourself later with no worries. So I don't think you would lose the lycanthropy.
TL;DR version: You're fine as long as you were humanoid or giant when you got lycanthropy.Last edited by ScionoftheVoid; 2010-02-23 at 03:17 PM.
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2010-02-24, 11:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: (3.5) lycanthropy
New question: If you have increased unarmed damage through being a monk, does it apply if you're in hybrid form?
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2010-02-24, 11:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: (3.5) lycanthropy
Yes, it most certainly does.
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2010-02-25, 01:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: (3.5) lycanthropy
I'm curious why the hybrid damage would be increased by unarmed strike. The hybrid damage is based on size alone. Improved Natural Attack would work, but the monk's unarmed damage wouldn't increase the natural weapons of the hybrid form.
On the other hand, you can still do unarmed strikes while in hybrid form, as you retain all your class features unless specifically stated.
(Sorry I sound like I'm being harsh, not trying to be... just trying to clarify.)
Then again, this is all my own opinion as the lycanthrope rules aren't the clearest of things.Custom Lycanthropes Follows all rules.
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2010-02-25, 02:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: (3.5) lycanthropy
Are you talking about unarmed strikes via the monk class, or natural attacks via being a lycanthrope in hybrid form?
Unarmed strikes are what it says on thetintable (improved by size, if applicable), and hybrid form natural attacks aren't affected at all by being a monk.
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2010-02-25, 02:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: (3.5) lycanthropy
Do as mentioned you can still do your unarmed attacks in the same sequence. Though the penalties for flurry apply to all attacks (including natural) that round.
So you might be looking at:
Unarmed attack -2/unarmed attack -2/unarmed attack -7/claw -2/claw -2/bite -7
The hybrid form's attacks are exactly like those of a creature. So improving them requires feats like Improved Natural Attack and Multiattack. Spells like Greater Might Wallop work, as well as initiator attacks from ToB. Incarnum has a class dedicated to Natural Attacks in the Totemist.
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2010-02-25, 02:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: (3.5) lycanthropy
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(Last updated 9/28/12)Linnormatar by the ever-wonderful Serpentine. MRH - FACE Mages
(Last updated 1/29/12)
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I'm hardly an expert, but feel free to PM me if you ever need anything; build advice, homebrew advice,
elaboration of a post I made, elaboration of my homebrew,my Social Security number,or just a friendly ear.
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2010-02-25, 01:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: (3.5) lycanthropy
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2010-02-25, 02:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: (3.5) lycanthropy
Natural attacks are not a Monk weapon. You may not flurry while using natural attacks.
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2010-02-25, 02:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-02-25, 02:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-02-25, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-02-25, 02:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: (3.5) lycanthropy
Well, you can do Monk 2/Totemist 2 and go:
Unarmed/Unarmed/Claw/Claw/Claw(/racial attacks, because you have at least one).
The penalties are massive though. -2 from Flurry on everything, and another -5 on all of the Claw attacks (since you're not using them as your primary attack). Multiattack makes the claw penalty -2. Improved MA removes the penalty outright.
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2010-02-26, 01:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: (3.5) lycanthropy
If you don't like it, you can always take Multiattack and Improved Multiattack. Then merely convince your DM that your unarmed strikes count as Natural Attacks (which, in fact, they are), and all your unarmed strikes and natural attacks are at -0. The real trouble is in how many unarmed strikes as "natural attacks" one is entitled to. DMs will range from about 0 to your flurry of blows amount. You could make an argument for more (start naming body parts), but that isn't going to go over well.
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2010-02-26, 01:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-02-26, 09:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: (3.5) lycanthropy
Unarmed Strikes aren't natural attacks because they require special training to be effective. Humanoids aren't born with martial arts skills, after all.
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2010-02-26, 10:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: (3.5) lycanthropy
You could reason that, certainly, but by the book, they're unarmed attacks. Take, for example, the Improved Natural Attack feat (MM). WotC has acknowledged that it can be taken and applied to a monk's unarmed strikes to increase their damage (if you don't believe it, check out the Fanged Ring from Dragon Magic which specifically gives Improved Natural Attack: Unarmed Strike). Note that this feat works only with natural attacks, and it works because of the wording on the monk's unarmed strike:
A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
Edit: Regarding the original intent of the thread, yes, I believe you ought to retain your lycanthropy.
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2010-02-26, 01:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: (3.5) lycanthropy
That only establishes that the Monk's (and only the Monk's) unarmed strike counts as a natural weapon (and only for the purpose of spells, items, etc.). It still doesn't allow anyone (not even a Monk) to use their unarmed strikes in the same way as a creature with natural attacks.
By the rules, unarmed strikes may be part of your body, but they use the same mechanics as weapon attacks, not natural attacks. Functionally, they are weapons, even if you're a Monk. No, not even then.
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2010-02-26, 06:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: (3.5) lycanthropy
Monks can take feats that improve natural weapons and apply them to their unarmed strikes. That 'etc.' you put after "spells, items" includes feats.
Their unarmed strike is used as a manufactured weapon for iterative attack rules, but Improved Natural Attack has nothing to do with how you get extra attacks.
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2010-02-27, 09:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: (3.5) lycanthropy