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    Default "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Daeva

    Ananth the Fateless, Shayal Daeva

    The multiverse has become a place of black and white. You are an ally of hell or you are an enemy, and many of those in the higher planes have similar viewpoints. This was not always true, in a time when the gods were not absolutes, when the planes were meshed into one nonpartisan wheel that influenced the material plane as it in turn influenced them. This influence forced them into categories, of good and evil, of law and chaos. This supernal law became something all followed, and was inescapable by all but those who were separate from it to begin with, creatures such as the daelkyr who only fell into this law once they stepped foot, prong, tentacle or gaze into the multiverse.
    There are rare few who can even recognize the possibility of moral oblivion, where misdeeds do not set you up as playthings to fiends or altruism is a pass to your own spot in Celestia. Even rarer few who are capable of stepping outside of it entirely and becoming warriors outside this law. Warriors who are the exception to categorizing, warriors who are exception to fate.
    Adaptation: This class is likely the easiest to adapt in so many ways. This class was only designed for ToB for the sake of it's inspiration, and is quite capable of being modified to not be built around the Book of Nine Swords, to normal meleeists, spellcasters or just a coverall prestige class. It could also be used for mortals, who were further from being categorized as much as creatures who have the actual alignment subtypes.

    HD: d8

    Requirements
    Race: Outsider with either the Chaos, Evil, Good or Lawful subtypes
    BAB: +7
    Skills: Knowledge (the planes) 10 ranks, Martial Lore 2 ranks
    Maneuvers: Ability to use 2nd level maneuvers of the Devoted Spirit, Dread Crown, Golden Saint, Kaleidoscopic Dream or Quicksilver Aegis disciplines.

    Class Skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (all skills, taken individually), Listen, Martial Lore, Ride, Sense Motive, Spot, Swim, and Tumble
    Skill-points per level: 6+Int modifier

    {table="head"]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
    1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Transcendence, biformity, soul and sword
    2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Soul knows no fear
    3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Mettle
    4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Infinite grace(saves)
    5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Overt ethics
    6th|+6|+5|+2|+5|Will to live
    7th|+7|+5|+2|+5|Infinite grace (armor class)
    8th|+8|+6|+2|+6|Manipulate soul
    9th|+9|+6|+3|+6|Infinite grace (attack and damage)
    10th|+10|+7|+3|+7|True transcendence
    [/table]

    {table="head"]Level|Man. Known|Man. Readied|Stances Known
    1st|0|1|0
    2nd|1|0|0
    3rd|1|0|0
    4th|0|0|1
    5th|1|1|0
    6th|1|0|0
    7th|0|0|0
    8th|1|0|0
    9th|1|1|0
    10th|0|0|1
    [/table]

    Weapon and Armor proficiencies: Daevas gain no additional weapon or armor proficiencies.

    Maneuvers: At each level except 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th, a daeva gains new maneuvers known from the Devoted Spirit, Dread Crown, Golden Saint, Kaleidoscopic Dream or Quicksilver Aegis disciplines. You must meet a maneuver's prerequisite to learn it. You add your full daeva levels to your initiator level to determine your total initiator level and your highest-level maneuvers known.
    At levels 1st, 5th and 9th you gain additional maneuvers readied per day.

    Stances Known: At 4th and 10th level, you learn a new martial stance from the Devoted Spirit, Dread Crown, Golden Saint, Kaleidoscopic Dream or Quicksilver Aegis disciplines. You must meet the stances prerequisites to learn it.

    Transcendence (Ex): You have stepped outside of morality and ethics, and cracked the shell of fate. You are not in an alignmental gray area, you are a void. Daevas no longer have an alignment to speak of. It is not as simple as being of true neutral alignment, but of really having none to speak of. This also removes any alignment subtypes the daeva has(without disqualifying them from this very class, or any other for that matter)This allows the daeva to always be treated as a favorable alignment when faced with abilities and effects that happen to effect only one alignment axis or another. For example, holy word has no effect on you at all, as though you were of good alignment and any protection from [alignment] spell does not protect against you. Lastly, restrictions of alignment associated with things such as classes, maneuvers, magic items or anything similar no longer have any meaning, becoming trivial and cannot stop you from advancing in a class, learning a maneuver or using such a magic item.

    Biformity (Ex): In addition to denying all that is based in the black and white morality of the multiverse, you may modify it to your advantage. Any of your abilities that would only effect one alignment or another in any way now effect all alignments to full. For example, the daeva can use holy word on an angel and still treat it as though it were evil, and protection from evil would guard against creatures of all alignments equally. This has no effect on other daevas(as well as other creatures with a similar alignment-removing feature, such as the Defiler Prince).

    Soul and Sword (Ex): At 1st level, your warrior prowess and supernatural nature are as one. From this point on, all Outsider HD you have or will receive count for your full initiator level, as opposed to the normal half. Additionally, your caster level for all spell-like, supernatural abilities with an equivalent caster level and actual caster level(not from class levels) are increased by your daeva level.

    Soul Knows No Fear (Ex): At 2nd level, the daeva truly realizes it's soul and body are one, and that petty things like fear cannot sway their fateless soul. From this point on, the daeva cannot take morale penalties from anything short of the power of gods and major artifacts, and are immune to all fear effects.

    Mettle (Ex): At 3rd level and above, a daeva can resist magical and unusual attacks with great willpower or fortitude. If they make a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect. An unconscious or sleeping daeva does not gain the benefit of mettle.

    Infinite Grace (Su):
    The daeva has the flow of the multiverse simply passing through it, losing connection to fate and thus almost capable of manipulating it from outside. At 4th level, the daeva may add it's Cha modifier to all it's saving throws. At 7th level, the daeva also adds it's Cha modifier as a deflection bonus to it's armor class and at 9th level it may add it's Cha modifier to all attack and damage rolls. None of these bonuses stack with other features that grant the character's Cha bonus to saving throws, AC, attacks or damage.

    Overt Morality (Su): At 5th level, the daeva is capable of seeing the moral and ethical standings that dwell within others from a truly outside perspective. It is always aware of the alignment of any creature or magic item it can see, but there are some cases where creatures are regarded as a moral and ethical blank area. Creatures with ways of concealing their alignment(such as the mind blank spell), true neutral creatures without Int scores and other daevas(as well as other creatures with a similar alignment-removing feature) are all regarded blank.

    Will to Live (Ex): At 6th level a daeva does not live simply because it is hardened, but because it refuses to die! The daeva adds it's Charisma or Wisdom score(whichever is highest) to it's maximum hit-points. Additionally, once per encounter the daeva may declare an attack made against them to be futile and it is treated as having rolled a natural 1 on the attack.

    Manipulate Soul (Su): At 8th level, the daeva is capable of reaching in it's hand of omnivolence from without and altering the nature of an enemy. This is treated just as a normal martial maneuver: you must ready it and expend it normally. It is an 8th level strike, and does not belong to any discipline. When you strike an opponent with this strike, they must make a Will save (DC 18+Cha modifier) and if they fail, they replace their alignment with whatever one you assign to them. This lasts for a number of rounds equal to your initiator level unless the target chooses to retain the new alignment on their own.
    This also has a unique effect on outsiders with an alignment subtype. They take on a template based on their new alignment(see below) that coincides with said alignment change, even if the creature doesn't technically qualify. For example, if you turn a Chaotic Neutral outsider to have a Lawful Evil alignment, it gains both the fallen and refined templates. Outsiders that have their alignment changed to a different alignment, but still on one axis or another does not gain the template of the alignment axis they did not deviate from.

    True Transcendence (Ex): You've made the final step, you can not only see past fate, you are removed from it entirely. At 10th level, a daeva can reap the benefits of being entirely without alignment or fate. The daeva is immune to all abilities that target alignments, even if it has effects that do not discriminate. For example, they are now immune to any damage from a paladin's smite evil class feature, even the damage done with the sword alone. They are not however, immune to outside forces that do not discriminate, such as the fire damage from the sword's flaming quality. Another example is the holy aura spell, which grants a encompassing deflection bonus, but because it has further protection against specific alignments, this deflection bonus is ignored by the daeva.
    Additionally, because the multiverse itself cannot discern your location, neither can magic designed to do so. This ability protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects. It even foils limited wish, miracle, and wish spells when they are used in such a way as to affect the subject’s mind or to gain information about it.
    Last edited by Krimm_Blackleaf; 2010-02-24 at 05:39 AM.
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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Deranged Template

    [Reserved for fluff]

    Creating a Deranged creature
    "Deranged" is a template that can be added to any outsider or construct with the Law subtype(referred to hereafter as the base creature). A deranged creature has all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

    Size and Type:
    The creature retains it's size and type, but it's Law subtype is removed and replaced with the Chaos subtype.

    Attack: If the deranged creature's weapons overcame damage reduction as though they were lawful, they now overcome it as if it were chaotic instead.

    Special Qualities: A deranged creature retains all the base creature’s special qualities and gains those described below.

    Damage Reduction: If the base creature had damage reduction that was only overcome by chaos in some way, it shifts to being overcome by law.

    Anarchic shift (Ex): All that was clear, organized and disciplined in the hierarchist has been warped into madness, chaos and disorder, made into it's polar opposite in every way possible. Any and all of their abilities that provide bonuses for being lawful, protect against chaos or specifically harm chaos are reversed to the opposite. If spell-like abilities the deranged hierarchist has include things such as dictum, it is changed to word of chaos and any smite chaos ability the base creature had is now smite law(though this does not only include spell-like abilities, affecting supernatural abilities as well). Additionally, any spells and effects that would cause a creature to be dominated for any duration now causes them to be confused for an equal duration.

    Abilities: Alter from the base creature as follows: Cha +2, Wis -2. Losing all that was orderly within you has made you terrifying and unpredictable, but this loss of predictability extends to yourself, and much insight into reality is lost.

    Feats: All feats the base creature has that require a lawful alignment are lost, and replaced either with an chaotic equivalent, or if there is no chaotic equivalent, any feat the deranged creature qualifies for.

    Organization: Typically solitary, or in some kind of congregation with other madspawn and deranged heirarchists.

    Challenge Rating: Same as base creature.

    Alignment: Always chaotic, but retains the same moral alignment axis as the base creature.

    Level Adjustment: Same as base creature.
    Last edited by Krimm_Blackleaf; 2010-02-24 at 03:49 AM.
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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Fallen Template

    Celestials, despite being the embodiment of holiness and virtue in the cosmos, are not infallible. As each strives to promote the cause of righteousness on behalf of the Bastions of Holiness or various goodly deities, each is regularly confronted by temptations. Everything from greed and lust, to envy and pride threatens the integrity of the celestial. Although the vast majority never yields to temptation, there are those who, for whatever reason, succumb to some fatal flaw and fall from grace. These are the fallen celestials.
    The greatest number of fallen celestials are known to have appeared during the earliest hours of the Prime Material. They were cast out of the Realms Above by the Bastions of Holiness for their pride, wickedness, and abuse of mortal creatures. However, the greatest fallen celestials were cast down after mortals populated countless worlds. Known as The Great Fall, this tribulation saw the likes of Belial, Eblis, and Triel cast out of the Lights from on High and into the Depths Below. Although some of the better known fallen celestials became terrible powers of Evil, most disappeared into obscurity, nursing their hatred against their former master and the mortals that infest the Prime even as they wallow in self-pity and despair, too proud to sincerely ask for forgiveness.
    Frequently, fallen celestials are twisted reflections of what they once were; decayed flesh, blackened or bat-like wings, red eyes and in many cases, horns. Their demeanor is typically scorned or vile in comparison to the calm or stoic nature of the celestial that came before it. Lawful good outsiders become disturbing crusaders of malignance or twisted bureaucrats, neutral good outsiders will become festering pillars of wrongness in the multiverse in anyway it's capable, and chaotic good outsiders become harbingers of death and entropy.

    Creating a Fallen creature
    "Fallen" is a template that can be added to any outsider with the Good subytpe(referred to hereafter as the base creature). A fallen creature has all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

    Size and Type: The creature retains it's size and type, but it's Good subtype is removed and replaced with the Evil subtype.

    Attack: If the fallen creature's weapons overcame damage reduction as though they were good, they now overcome it as if it were evil instead.

    Special Qualities: A fallen creature retains all the base creature’s special qualities and gains those described below.

    Damage Reduction: If the base creature had damage reduction that was only overcome by evil in some way, it shifts to being overcome by good.

    Malevolent Shift (Ex): All that was pure and right within the former celestial has been corrupt, made into it's polar opposite in every way possible. Any and all of their abilities that provide bonuses for being good, protect against evil or specifically harm evil are reversed to the opposite. If spell-like abilities the fallen celestial has include things such as holy word, it is changed to blasphemy and any smite evil ability the base creature had is now smite good(though this does not only include spell-like abilities, affecting supernatural abilities as well, such as the angel's protective aura).

    Abilities: Alter from the base creature as follows: Cha +2, Wis -2. The fall from grace will make the celestial more fierce, and slightly more detatched from reality.

    Feats: All feats the base creature has that require a good alignment are lost, and replaced either with an evil equivalent, or if there is no evil equivalent, any feat the fallen creature qualifies for.

    Organization: Typically solitary, or in some kind of congregation with other fiends and fallen celestials of an equal alignment.

    Challenge Rating: Same as base creature.

    Alignment: Always evil, but retains the same ethical alignment axis as the base creature.

    Level Adjustment: Same as base creature.
    Last edited by Krimm_Blackleaf; 2010-02-24 at 03:08 AM.
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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Penitant Template

    [Reserved for fluff]

    Creating a Penitent creature
    "Penitent" is a template that can be added to any outsider with the Evil subytpe(referred to hereafter as the base creature). A penitent creature has all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

    Size and Type: The creature retains it's size and type, but it's Evil subtype is removed and replaced with the Good subtype.

    Attack: If the penitent creature's weapons overcame damage reduction as though they were evil, they now overcome it as if it were good instead.

    Special Qualities: A penitent creature retains all the base creature’s special qualities and gains those described below.

    Damage Reduction: If the base creature had damage reduction that was only overcome by good in some way, it shifts to being overcome by evil.

    Benevolent shift (Ex): All that was vile and wicked within the former fiend has been purified, made into it's polar opposite in every way possible. Any and all of their abilities that provide bonuses for being evil, protect against good or specifically harm good are reversed to the opposite. If spell-like abilities the penitent fiend has include things such as blasphemy, it is changed to holy word and any smite good ability the base creature had is now smite evil(though this does not only include spell-like abilities, affecting supernatural abilities as well, such as the angel's protective aura). Additionally, any spells and effects that would deal negative energy damage now heal an equal amount, and effects that would deal negative levels instead restore an equal amount of levels lost by negative levels.

    Abilities: Alter from the base creature as follows: Str +2, Cha -2. Returning to grace leaves the fiend stronger for it, but their malicious physical remnants and gracious personality do not mesh well.

    Feats: All feats the base creature has that require a evil alignment are lost, and replaced either with an good equivalent, or if there is no good equivalent, any feat the penitent creature qualifies for.

    Organization: Typically solitary, or in some kind of congregation with other celestials and penitent fiends.

    Challenge Rating: Same as base creature.

    Alignment: Always good, but retains the same ethical alignment axis as the base creature.

    Level Adjustment: Same as base creature.
    Last edited by Krimm_Blackleaf; 2010-02-24 at 03:27 AM.
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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Refined Template

    [Reserved for fluff]

    Creating a Refined creature
    "Refined" is a template that can be added to any outsider with the Chaos subytpe(referred to hereafter as the base creature). A refined creature has all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

    Size and Type: The creature retains it's size and type, but it's Chaos subtype is removed and replaced with the Law subtype.

    Attack: If the refined creature's weapons overcame damage reduction as though they were chaotic, they now overcome it as if it were lawful instead.

    Special Qualities: A refined creature retains all the base creature’s special qualities and gains those described below.

    Damage Reduction: If the base creature had damage reduction that was only overcome by law in some way, it shifts to being overcome by chaos.

    Axiomatic shift (Ex): All that was random and inconsistent within the former madspawn has been aligned and organized, made into it's polar opposite in every way possible. Any and all of their abilities that provide bonuses for being chaos, protect against law or specifically harm law are reversed to the opposite. If spell-like abilities the refined madspawn has include things such as word of chaos, it is changed to dictum and any smite law ability the base creature had is now smite chaos(though this does not only include spell-like abilities, affecting supernatural abilities as well). Additionally, any spells and effects that would cause a creature to be confused for any duration now causes them to be dominated for an equal duration.

    Abilities: Alter from the base creature as follows: Wis +2, Cha -2. Becoming a being of law and order causes the madspawn to gain more clarity, but their form still seems... off.

    Feats: All feats the base creature has that require a chaotic alignment are lost, and replaced either with an lawful equivalent, or if there is no lawful equivalent, any feat the refined creature qualifies for.

    Organization: Typically solitary, or in some kind of congregation with other creatures of law and refined madspawn.

    Challenge Rating: Same as base creature.

    Alignment: Always lawful, but retains the same moral alignment axis as the base creature.

    Level Adjustment: Same as base creature.
    Last edited by Krimm_Blackleaf; 2010-02-24 at 03:43 AM.
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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    ...wow. Seriously, wow.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Revlid View Post
    And so it was that Zaeed, Aang, Winry, Ezio, Sadoko and Snow White all set out on their epic journey to destroy The Empire.

    God I love Exalted.


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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf View Post
    Soul and Sword (Ex): At 1st level, your warrior prowess and supernatural nature are as one. From this point on, all Outsider HD you have or will receive count for your full initiator level, as opposed to the normal half. Additionally, your caster level for all spell-like, supernatural abilities and actual caster level(not from class levels) with an equivalent caster level are increased by your unmasked fiend level.
    Not really adding much beyond calling that to your attention. It's an interesting concept though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Innis Cabal View Post
    Toho has retroactive powers of awesome. He makes things that he hasn't done, and have already happened, better by his existence
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganurath View Post
    If anything, the term should be What Would Toho Do?
    Of course, in all situations the answer is Be A Badass.

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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Krimm probably means this class.

    You should probably say "unmasked fiend or concealed celestial levels", though.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Revlid View Post
    And so it was that Zaeed, Aang, Winry, Ezio, Sadoko and Snow White all set out on their epic journey to destroy The Empire.

    God I love Exalted.


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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by horngeek View Post
    Krimm probably means this class.

    You should probably say "unmasked fiend or concealed celestial levels", though.
    Nope, just a me not being aware enough to alter it before posting.
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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Were you inspired by Darksiders for the quote?

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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante & Vergil View Post
    Were you inspired by Darksiders for the quote?
    Yes, and the sketch of Abaddon.

    Edit: Also have templates up, not much but they'll do. Will put rest of the fluff up later.
    Last edited by Krimm_Blackleaf; 2010-02-24 at 03:44 AM.
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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    What's your reasoning with the fallen template taking a wisdom hit?

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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    I'm more concerned that 3 of the 4 templates deal with wis and cha, yet Penitent is str and cha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Innis Cabal View Post
    Toho has retroactive powers of awesome. He makes things that he hasn't done, and have already happened, better by his existence
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganurath View Post
    If anything, the term should be What Would Toho Do?
    Of course, in all situations the answer is Be A Badass.

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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    At least it's not Str and Int

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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    To paraphrase a number of versions of fictionalised Lucifer:

    "tis better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven? Whoever said that was an idiot. It's horrible down here, everyone's a jerk, they're all trying to betray you and "ruling" is like trying to heard a large number of damn wilful cats!"

    The last sentence on Sword and Soul doesn't make sense. I think I know what you intended [caster level for effects rather than spells known/slots available] but that's not conveyed clearly.

    Why would True Transcendence make you immune to a sword swung by the paladin during the Smite attempt? Also, your example at the end with Protection from Evil is mangled because the deflection and save bonuses are both applicable only to attacks from Evil critters...

    Finally, i'm not clear on how a daeva is supposed to behave. Every example of a "moral vacuum" in real life always comes down to Lawful Neutral with strong Evil tendencies in D&D absolute terms...[see Lawyers, Soldiers and various others].
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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Latronis View Post
    What's your reasoning with the fallen template taking a wisdom hit?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hadrian_Emrys View Post
    I'm more concerned that 3 of the 4 templates deal with wis and cha, yet Penitent is str and cha.
    I'm actually thinking of altering all the ability modifications.
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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    To paraphrase a number of versions of fictionalised Lucifer:

    "tis better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven? Whoever said that was an idiot. It's horrible down here, everyone's a jerk, they're all trying to betray you and "ruling" is like trying to heard a large number of damn wilful cats!"

    The last sentence on Sword and Soul doesn't make sense. I think I know what you intended [caster level for effects rather than spells known/slots available] but that's not conveyed clearly.

    Why would True Transcendence make you immune to a sword swung by the paladin during the Smite attempt? Also, your example at the end with Protection from Evil is mangled because the deflection and save bonuses are both applicable only to attacks from Evil critters...

    Finally, i'm not clear on how a daeva is supposed to behave. Every example of a "moral vacuum" in real life always comes down to Lawful Neutral with strong Evil tendencies in D&D absolute terms...[see Lawyers, Soldiers and various others].
    I am... very off my game lately. This is my first PrC since December, and rusty is putting it lightly. I'll go back and try to clarify/make coherent all the things that are more accurately described as 'what nonsense threw up'.
    Also this is supposed to be a meager attempt at allowing someone to play as a character that need not worry about alignment. How the character acts is based on their character, not their alignment. Sure they might end up being one alignment or another, but not mechanically.

    Edit:
    Oh, so I've been reading magic circle against evil wrong this whole time. The deflection bonus only applies to the appropriate alignment, and I've had it in my head this whole time that it being an improved version, grants a coverall deflection bonus.
    Edit 2: Oh, it was holy aura. Editing.
    Edit 3!: Okay! So I'm tired and confused, but I had a moment of sheer clarity and I can explain the smite thing. It's because the weapon is so charged with holy energy that they are capable of ignoring it entirely just from the goodness imbued in the steel. The fire however, is from some Neutral McWizardington or Boris the Artificer, but no matter the alignment of the fire-power's creator, the fire itself is without alignment and still capable of burning the daeva.
    Last edited by Krimm_Blackleaf; 2010-02-24 at 05:42 AM.
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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf View Post
    Yes, and the sketch of Abaddon.
    ...you mean not Milton's Paradise Lost?

    This is pretty cool, though.
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2010-02-24 at 09:17 AM.

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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf View Post
    I am... very off my game lately. This is my first PrC since December, and rusty is putting it lightly. I'll go back and try to clarify/make coherent all the things that are more accurately described as 'what nonsense threw up'.
    ...

    THIS IS YOU 'OFF YOUR GAME'?!?! An incredibly kick-ass prestige class and four templates that are the bee's knees (or whatever young folk are saying these days) with just the mechanical text and images is your 'off game'?! And it's based on Darksiders?! God help us if you get on the ball and Bayonetta or Dante's Inferno. That'd just be... wow.

    Because this? This right here? This is where it's at.
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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Wow, I really like this concept. I could imagine an epic PrC version for non-celestials too.
    The only thing I don't understand is Manipulate Soul. It's a cool ability, but I don't see how freeing yourself from the morality wheel makes you able to change others. Maybe that's just me, though.

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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Yes, I'm pretty sure Dragoon's right on the source. That's what I first thought of. Reading it right now. Also, in BoVD, the quote is attributed to Milton

    Mulletman, I take issue with your example of moral vacuum. Firstly, soldiers and lawyers, more often than many other professions, are motivated by good. Also, being above the alignment system does not necessarily mean a moral vacuum. For example, Good/Bad generally reflects tendencies towards altruism/hedonism, but ignores disjoint moralities such as egotism/objectivism and eudaimonia. Neutral doesn't capture these tendencies because it tends to represent people that try to be altruistic, but sometimes don't really care, apathetes, and morally struggling characters. Similarly, Law/Chaos generally represents the Deontological/Teleological debate. Yes, it's a bit hard to be a Deontological Hedon (LE), but this alignment seems a bit more about a evil character's officious vanity instead of moral sentiments. There's less of an escape from the Deontological/Teleological axis, but you could argue that people have rights to freedom from compulsion, but no rule-like duties to others

    True Transcendance is an interesting ability. A smart PC will try to pry into the minds of others who may have recently seen the Daeva or accomplices, vice the mind of the Daeva itself.
    Last edited by lost_my_NHL; 2010-02-24 at 07:32 PM.
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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tygre View Post
    ...

    THIS IS YOU 'OFF YOUR GAME'?!?! An incredibly kick-ass prestige class and four templates that are the bee's knees (or whatever young folk are saying these days) with just the mechanical text and images is your 'off game'?! And it's based on Darksiders?! God help us if you get on the ball and Bayonetta or Dante's Inferno. That'd just be... wow.

    Because this? This right here? This is where it's at.
    Keep in mind this took me literally since new years day to finish. When I'm on my game I can crank out 2 or 3 a week.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roderick_BR View Post
    Wow, I really like this concept. I could imagine an epic PrC version for non-celestials too.
    The only thing I don't understand is Manipulate Soul. It's a cool ability, but I don't see how freeing yourself from the morality wheel makes you able to change others. Maybe that's just me, though.
    I sort of put the fluff in that being outside of fate let you tweak it slightly from outside. Not a huge overtone, really, but it's sorta there.
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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf View Post
    Keep in mind this took me literally since new years day to finish. When I'm on my game I can crank out 2 or 3 a week.
    If only.

    Nice job. I really do enjoy your work, as do most of the playgrounders.
    Last edited by Temotei; 2010-02-24 at 07:47 PM.
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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf View Post
    Keep in mind this took me literally since new years day to finish. When I'm on my game I can crank out 2 or 3 a week.
    Not the size of the boat, it's the motion of the ocean, man. Quality over quantity. Other vaguely erotic comparisons n' such.
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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    I love your work Krimm

    Polar reflection is done so readily - Good to Evil, Evil to Good.

    How about some thought out templates for those that fell into neutrality. The cast out, the bereft. I want to see the angel that in the midst of all his power cries in his soul for the sight of his god.


    Far more useful for gaming purposes (I think) is the guy chucked in the middle doing what he can to get back in the good (or bad) books. Some of these figures might only be posing as outcasts. Some might simply have some very frank inside information about the groups they used to belong to.

    Oh and there should be some logical reason why they weren't killed outright :).


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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Krimm should not be a "Troll on the playground", but a "Legend on the playground" :D
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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Also, the picture of the Refined template is... really creepy.

    There's just something about it...


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    Default Re: "Would you serve in Heaven, or rule in Hell?" [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by horngeek View Post
    Also, the picture of the Refined template is... really creepy.

    There's just something about it...
    Then Mike Mignola and H.P. Lovecraft's work here is done.
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