Starting in an epic Pathfinder game soon

[Alysar]

I've never played an epic level game before, and I'm not sure what to expect.

I'm trying to think of what kind of character to play. I'm thinking about something with a Beguiler base and PrCing something on top of that.

I was recently in a game where someone was taking levels in Mindbender. That always seemed interesting to me, but when I looked it up, everyone said to not bother taking more than one level in it. I would think that the first four levels would be useful. If not mindbender than maybe some other character that specializes in telepathy and mental control without actually going psionic (that stuff is confusing)

I'm was also thinking about some kind of master shapeshifter, but I'm already in a game where I'm playing a druid with plans to multiclass to Master of Many Forms and Warshaper.

Basically something other than the standard sword swinger, spell thrower or Sneaky Guy.

[Tinydwarfman]

Um, what? Your title says pathfinder, but the post says 3.5...
If playing Epic, there is one thing to remember: EPIC SPELLCASTING IS ****ING BROKEN. If your casters weren't gods before now, they will be soon. An epic level caster can easily kill gods. Make sure your DM knows and propose some kind of homebrew/fix.

[Alysar]

Um, what? Your title says pathfinder, but the post says 3.5...

You can use most of the stuff from 3.5 sourcebooks in Pathfinder. It was designed specifically to be compatible.

[Rixx]

The epic rules are so odd. I hear Pathfinder's epic rules are going to be rewritten entirely rather than converted from 3.5.

I'd just look out for weird ways that Pathfinder and epic D&D interact.

[Tyndmyr]

You can use most of the stuff from 3.5 sourcebooks in Pathfinder. It was designed specifically to be compatible.

This is what we call advertising.

I mean, I guess you could try to bolt on epic 3.5 rules to pathfinder. Good luck with that. They weren't even balanced properly for 3.5. Or 3.0.

[TheMinxTail]

I've never played a high level campaign, not yet anyway, but I did skim the Epic Handbook. Play wizard, if you can. Epic Spells are utterly broken - in fact I've even invented a few doomsday spells available at LV21. For instance, a large body of pure cold energy that was SENTIENT and capable of conjuring copies of itself, which themselves could also multiply, eventually overtaking the entire world in an almost complete halt to thermodynamic activity, killing everything in about a few hours.

[Alysar]

This is what we call advertising.

I mean, I guess you could try to bolt on epic 3.5 rules to pathfinder. Good luck with that. They weren't even balanced properly for 3.5. Or 3.0.

I was referring to the Beguiler and Mindbender classes. I thought that was what Tinydwarfman was talking about.

[Tyndmyr]

Ah, by presumed by epic rules, he meant using the 3.x rules, since so far as Im aware, pathfinder does not have them yet.

[Kaiyanwang]

I've never played a high level campaign, not yet anyway, but I did skim the Epic Handbook. Play wizard, if you can. Epic Spells are utterly broken - in fact I've even invented a few doomsday spells available at LV21. For instance, a large body of pure cold energy that was SENTIENT and capable of conjuring copies of itself, which themselves could also multiply, eventually overtaking the entire world in an almost complete halt to thermodynamic activity, killing everything in about a few hours.

I played one and used Epic Magic. If Players and DM cooperate and none of the two sides is a jerk, Epic Campaigns and Epic Spellcasting are the way for awesomeness and wonder.

Otherwise, if one is not able to play epic, does not deserves it. Maybe it seems a little bit harsh, but it's what I think.

Not to say that the seed system is optimal. Actually, is a wonderful idea really, REALLY badly executed

[Cyclocone]

I played one and used Epic Magic. If Players and DM cooperate and none of the two sides is a jerk, Epic Campaigns and Epic Spellcasting are the way for awesomeness and wonder.

Yeah, you have to treat Epic like a White Wolf magic tea party game instead of as a real game with meaningfull rules and anything approaching a codified CR.

[Mongoose87]

Are Dragon Magazine feats useable? If so, AoO build can be super awesome with Robilar Gambit + Epic Improved Combat Reflexes + Improved Combat Reflexes + Greater Combat Reflexes. 3 attack anytime someone swings at you.

[Kaiyanwang]

Yeah, you have to treat Epic like a White Wolf magic tea party game instead of as a real game with meaningfull rules and anything approaching a codified CR.

At least in my experience, I had only to:

1)fuel Epic Spell Components to lower spellcraft without loopholes.

2) Yeah, challenge rating is not so indicative...

3) meleer have to be overequipped slightly (mainly on weapons).

Consider that my players managed 3 by themselves by crafting, and most loopholes and smartass moves you can read on teh internet.. are not allowed in my groups.

[Cyclocone]

Epic spellcasting is just far, far beyond Over 9000, yeah.

And it's so inconsistent! 1,440,000 gp for a +12 item is crazy when a wizard can do:

Pseudonatural Paragon Fox's Cunning

Transmutation
Spellcraft DC: 59
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 11 minutes
Range: Personal
Duration: 80 hours
To Develop: 531,000 gp; 11 days; 21,240 XP. Seed: Fortify (DC 17). Factors: additional +29 enhancement bonus (+58 DC), increase duration by 300% (+6 DC), increase casting time by 10 minutes (-20 DC), change range to personal (-2 DC).

This spell grants the caster a +30 enhancement bonus to Intelligence.

[Kaiyanwang]

Epic spellcasting is just far, far beyond Over 9000, yeah.

And it's so inconsistent! 1,440,000 gp for a +12 item is crazy when a wizard can do:

Pseudonatural Paragon Fox's Cunning

Transmutation
Spellcraft DC: 59
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 11 minutes
Range: Personal
Duration: 80 hours
To Develop: 531,000 gp; 11 days; 21,240 XP. Seed: Fortify (DC 17). Factors: additional +29 enhancement bonus (+58 DC), increase duration by 300% (+6 DC), increase casting time by 10 minutes (-20 DC), change range to personal (-2 DC).

This spell grants the caster a +30 enhancement bonus to Intelligence.

Items are there, and can be DROPPED by a boss. Is more difficult epic spells are dropped.

And Epic Spells are anyway an optional rule, and DMs can make a c ertain combination simply don't work by RAW.

Actually, is better not to use ES only for that. mega-Buffs can be useful, and even cool if well described, but flying castles, short-living lighting dragons, uber-rituals and similar things are far better.

[Starbuck_II]

Epic spellcasting is just far, far beyond Over 9000, yeah.

And it's so inconsistent! 1,440,000 gp for a +12 item is crazy when a wizard can do:

Pseudonatural Paragon Fox's Cunning

Transmutation
Spellcraft DC: 59
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 11 minutes
Range: Personal
Duration: 80 hours
To Develop: 531,000 gp; 11 days; 21,240 XP. Seed: Fortify (DC 17). Factors: additional +29 enhancement bonus (+58 DC), increase duration by 300% (+6 DC), increase casting time by 10 minutes (-20 DC), change range to personal (-2 DC).

This spell grants the caster a +30 enhancement bonus to Intelligence.

Shouldn't you increase to an hour to cast? I mean, it lasts 80 of them. Low cost to develop then.