Dragon Shaman for pathfinder

[KingVic]

Just a quick question: what modifications do you have to do on the dragon shaman class (PH 2 3.5) to make it compatible with pathfinder?

[Frosty]

Skill changes really. That's all it'll take to make it compatible mechanicaly. That said, it'll need a lot more work to keep up power-wise.

[KingVic]

What kind of powers can I add? It seems pretty balanced to me.

[Starbuck_II]

Well, when it was made it was one of the few (Warlock, etc) classes with at will abilities (well 1d4 rounds breath).

Do I'd add either a racial reduction in breath time limit, an at will attack (same type as breath but less damage and single target?), etc.

[Thurbane]

Maybe give it full BAB and 4 skill points a level? Or would this be too much?

Other options: heavy armor proficiency instead of just medium; maybe martial weapon proficiency?

[Frosty]

Even with full Bab and 4+Int, it'd be barely servicable. It's just really bad compared to other options.

[Thurbane]

Bonus Metabreath and Breath Channeling feats every few levels?

[Gnaeus]

What kind of powers can I add? It seems pretty balanced to me.

Dragon Shaman is one of those classes like Monk that is flavorful and so full of powers that it SEEMS strong, but underperforms in play. They have the same problem. Neither class has a really good combat role giving them something good to do with their actions, and neither class really has much out of combat utility.

In the case of dragon shaman, mid BaB and no combat powers except for the aura give you poor damage with weapons. The breath weapon doesn't scale well compared with AOEs from casters, AND you can only do it every few rounds, AND blasting is usually suboptimal anyway. Same thing with the lay on hands.

Maybe full BaB, 4+ int, and either a healthy boost to breath weapon damage and a bonus feat at level 4 or 5 and every 3 levels after, usable only on draconic or metabreath feats.

[Thurbane]

FWIW, I'm currently playing a Copper Dragon Shaman 13...and with the right feat and gear selection, there is really no reason it can't be a solid character. It's not going to be on a par with Batman Wizard or CODzilla, but then who is?

[Tinydwarfman]

FWIW, I'm currently playing a Copper Dragon Shaman 13...and with the right feat and gear selection, there is really no reason it can't be a solid character. It's not going to be on a par with Batman Wizard or CODzilla, but then who is?

Well yes, anything can be playable if it's built well, you could make a decent soulknife if you put a lot of work into it, but the class doesn't do anything that another class does better. The two are quite similar actually. They both have feats that replace their unique abilities.

[KingVic]

In what book does draconic or metabreath feats appear? And are these feats on par with pathfinder feats?

[Apropos]

I would give him his breath weapon earlier and either get rid of the cooldown or give it a bunch of natural attacks. Maybe both.

[Gnaeus]

FWIW, I'm currently playing a Copper Dragon Shaman 13...and with the right feat and gear selection, there is really no reason it can't be a solid character. It's not going to be on a par with Batman Wizard or CODzilla, but then who is?

It is true that they aren't on a par with tier ones, and no one else is either.

A well built Dragon Shaman, however, isn't on a par with a well built Barbarian or Rogue (both of whom can do real damage to level appropriate enemies), and that says a LOT. It is maybe a little better than a well built monk or knight, if you have a large party to benefit from your auras.

To give one example, I hear lots of Dragon shaman players talk about how they plan to use their breath weapon to give them some damage dealing. A level 10 dragon shaman does 5d6 (average 17.5) damage with its breath. Reflex for half. Pretty much useless against any enemy with even energy resistance 10. Not really very effective against ANY CR 10 monster, as even a monster with vulnerability to that element who fails its save will take less than 30 damage, which is less than a power attacking barbarian will do with each hit. A Warmage, by comparison, is also a weak class, but at 10th level does more than twice as much damage with his AOE spells. With better range. With the ability to pick which element he is using so that he isn't shut down by energy immunity. And he can do it every single round for about 17 rounds per day, with no time off to recover.

In what book does draconic or metabreath feats appear? And are these feats on par with pathfinder feats?

Draconic feats are mostly in Dragon Magic and Races of the Dragon. Allow Dragon Shaman to count as Sorcerer for entry. Many of them require arcane spells to be useful, but some don't.

Metabreath feats are mostly in Dragonomicon and Races of the Dragon.

Metabreath and Draconic feats aren't particularly powerful or game breaking. I don't think they are any stronger than Pathfinder feats, and some are weaker, but if you give them for free...

[Person_Man]

Play a Dragonfire Adept or a refluffed Bard instead. Dragon Shaman and Marshal auras just scale very poorly, aren't particularly amazing in their effects, and their effects are always on (which just leads the DM to adjust the difficulty up for every encounter. From a metagame perspective, it's better to have spells/maneuvers/etc, so that you're "weaker" at the start of an encounter but can always break out the big guns when you need to). You'd pretty much have to entirely rewrite the class.

[Gnaeus]

Ooh, or heres another thought since you are in Pathfinder.

Dragon Shaman has full BAB, 4+int skill points
Remove Dragon Shaman's breath weapon. Replace with:

Dragon Shaman levels act exactly as sorcerer levels for purposes of calculating benefits from the Draconic bloodline. A multiclassed dragon shaman can add his dragon shaman level to his caster level for calculating the effects of Sorcerer spells.

All other classes that advance the Draconic bloodline (sorcerer, Dragon Disciple) stack with Dragon Shaman levels for the purposes of calculating the bonus given by draconic auras.

[Everyman]

I've found the class is much more playable if I use the following adjustments...
1) Breath Weapon - Gained at 1st level. Starts as 1d8 breath weapon, and progresses by 1d8 at every odd level.
2) Auras: At 5th level, you can project 2 auras at once. At 10th, your aura's range increases to 60 ft. Finally, you can project 3 auras at once 15th level. You can only switch out one aura per round, as a swift action.
3) Skills: Becomes 4 + Int.
4) BAB: Becomes full progression.
5) Draconic Wings: Gained at 11th level.

It should convert to Pathfinder with no trouble, I believe.

[KingVic]

ok thanks for the help guys I should be able to formulate something with your suggestions.