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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Founding an Academy

    In the world of D&D there are Magic schools and temples, and training grounds.

    I was wondering if a PC would be fine trying to build one of those on his own....

    Have you guys ever tryed something like that?

    What level do you think is possible to start such a thing?

    what would be the wealth requirements to tackle the task?

    Any thoughts on how to gather the staff?

    I was thinking of an Arcane/Divine sort of academy... any thoughts of your own about this?

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Founding an Academy

    Quote Originally Posted by NekoJoker View Post
    In the world of D&D there are Magic schools and temples, and training grounds.

    I was wondering if a PC would be fine trying to build one of those on his own....
    Sure its fine giving players something to build and care for, its always a good idea and can provide tons of plot hooks on top.

    Quote Originally Posted by NekoJoker View Post
    Have you guys ever tryed something like that?
    My players are currently building a library in their castle grounds, candlekeep like you bring 2(or was it three?) books as a fee and can then use the library 1 year.

    Quote Originally Posted by NekoJoker View Post
    What level do you think is possible to start such a thing?
    Depends a bit on your campaign world and the kind of academy they want to have ie should it be an elite learning place where only the best study magic or do you want lots of less gifted people learn magic there too ?
    If the highest level wizard in your world is 12 or something a level 10 wizard could well be a magister of an elite university for example.

    Another thing would be money - they will need a lot of that, building the university, hiring staff etc very expensive business
    Although some of the expenses could be reduced via magic (depending on your setting again)


    Quote Originally Posted by NekoJoker View Post
    what would be the wealth requirements to tackle the task?
    Would need more specifics how big an academy they want where they want to build it etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by NekoJoker View Post
    Any thoughts on how to gather the staff?
    They could entice wizards from other academies of course (though they might not like that ^^)
    Other then that notice boards in major cities should be a good way
    maybe they came across other wizards/clerics during their adventuring career and can ask them if they want to teach.

    Quote Originally Posted by NekoJoker View Post
    I was thinking of an Arcane/Divine sort of academy... any thoughts of your own about this?
    Not every deity and/or order will be pleased about that so I would limit the choice to those that are mystra for example would fit such an academy very well
    Last edited by Emmerask; 2010-02-25 at 11:16 AM.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Founding an Academy

    Quote Originally Posted by NekoJoker View Post
    In the world of D&D there are Magic schools and temples, and training grounds. I was wondering if a PC would be fine trying to build one of those on his own....

    Have you guys ever tried something like that? What level do you think is possible to start such a thing? what would be the wealth requirements to tackle the task? Any thoughts on how to gather the staff?

    I was thinking of an Arcane/Divine sort of academy... any thoughts of your own about this?
    In old D&D this was an expected part of your character's progression, it was called 'Name level'. By about 9th level you were that famous and hardcore that followers started to naturally gravitate to you to bask in your glory and learn some tricks from a true master of the stabby-stealy arts.

    Clerics got temples and zealous fanatics, fighters became the head of a warband, wizards got a wizardly tower and apprentices, thieves became the focus of a guild cell, and the demi-humans got to start up a colony of their kind.*

    The best place to keep these adoring lowbie mooks when daddy went off adventuring with his big boy friends? Why, at your keep/temple/tower/clubhouse/dungeon/seraglio, of course. (Yeah, you've got a castle Mr Big Shot. You're a power in the land in your own right; you don't hang in taverns anymore.)

    Old D&D even had rules for hunting out particularly talented sidekicks/support characters. You want a resident sage/court wizard? Sure, DMG pgXX

    How to represent this in WOTC D&D?

    3E: Leadership feat as universal class feature, no cohort or follower cheese allowed.
    4E: Sorry, this is not a game where you get to change the game world in a meaningful, lasting way. No legion of minions for you.

    ------

    * AD&D expanded follower options further as more, and ever madder, classes were added, so PCs ended up involved in barbarian hordes, monkish schools, bardic colleges, druidic Highlander-style duelling(!), and rangers attracting a mad menagerie of everything from badgers through gnome alchemists to unicorns and pixies.

    ( But then AD&D ~by RAW~ was double-hardcore crazy mad b*st*rd D&D-on-PCP, intended for the type of players who eat nails, fart iron filings and holiday in the Tomb of Horrors. Thor thinks AD&D players are excessively macho. )
    Last edited by bosssmiley; 2010-02-25 at 11:45 AM.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Founding an Academy

    Quote Originally Posted by bosssmiley View Post
    4E: Sorry, this is not a game where you get to change the game world in a meaningful, lasting way. No legion of minions for you.
    I'd say the reverse, actually. In as much as, the Old DnD concept would map quite accurately to the whole paragon tier thing. That's explicitely the kind of change of pace that is possible at that point, and very much something I'm encouraging my players to become interested in.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Founding an Academy

    I think founding academies, villages etc is completely system independent (it is gm dependent though).
    Sure you can put all your cohorts into such an organisation but in general they donīt need to be cohorts of anyone.
    I for example donīt consider myself the cohort of my universities chancellor

    Similarly whether you can influence the world and how much is completely the gms choice and has very little to do with the system you are playing. Iīm not a big 4e fan but that has other reasons then that
    Last edited by Emmerask; 2010-02-25 at 12:08 PM.

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    The Random NPC's Avatar

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    Default Re: Founding an Academy

    In 3.5e, the DMGII has rules for running schools and businesses. I'm AFB right now so I can't give you a page number.

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    Greenish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Founding an Academy

    Quote Originally Posted by NekoJoker View Post
    what would be the wealth requirements to tackle the task?
    I've heard that Stronghold Builder's Guide has some guidelines on them, and something that allowed you a separate pool of wealth just for your 'stronghold', but sadly I do not possess said book.
    Quote Originally Posted by NekoJoker View Post
    Any thoughts on how to gather the staff?
    Money can buy you hirelings, academics could come out of curiosity and so forth. Mechanically, Leadership would give you lots of followers, lower levels for more mundane up keep of the academy, higher levels for librarians and so forth. I could even see this as a valid reason to set up a Leadership chain, so your Cohort or Cohort's Cohort can be the person running the place while you're away, adventuring.
    Quote Originally Posted by NekoJoker View Post
    I was thinking of an Arcane/Divine sort of academy... any thoughts of your own about this?
    Sounds great, let us know how it went if you try it out.

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Founding an Academy

    Cityscape is definitely another book worth checking out for advice. Schools for wizards are often found inside major cities since groups of wizards can make tons of money by crafting magical items and selling magical services.


    Cityscape has tons of great information on how to run political systems, cities, city districts, houses/guilds/organizations, contacts for organizations, all sorts of ideas for benefits and drawbacks of patronage in an assocation, and lots of other cool stuff.

    I'm using the book right now to develop a city and an Adventurer's Guild whose main guild hall is inside the city.
    Last edited by HunterOfJello; 2010-02-25 at 12:27 PM.

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Thumbs up Re: Founding an Academy

    Awesome!
    thx guys!

    I am now lookig through te books that you detailed, the DMGII has some interesting mechanics to get a Unversity going. Later on I will check the Stronghold builder's guide to see what other things I can add to the whole edifice.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Founding an Academy

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmerask View Post
    My players are currently building a library in their castle grounds, candlekeep like you bring 2(or was it three?) books as a fee and can then use the library 1 year.
    Libraries were always interesting to me... What benefit do you have by reading in-game? Would you add ranks to knowledge? or get some miscellaneous bonus to those skills? Complete Champion speaks about libraries a bit and thats seems to be the general deal with them. I think.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    AslanCross's Avatar

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    Default Re: Founding an Academy

    Also adding PHB2 to the suggestions. It has rules for setting up affiliations, their benefits, and prerequisites.


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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Founding an Academy

    Quote Originally Posted by VestigeArcanist View Post
    Libraries were always interesting to me... What benefit do you have by reading in-game? Would you add ranks to knowledge? or get some miscellaneous bonus to those skills? Complete Champion speaks about libraries a bit and thats seems to be the general deal with them. I think.
    Yes I do give my players knowledge ranks for reading certain books, not always though only when the situation calls for it.

    Sometimes even doing things gives them skills and or makes a skill a class skill.
    For example my players undertook a voyage by sea and one player helped out as a seaman so he got knowledge nautics 2 ranks, he was quite happy about that
    Last edited by Emmerask; 2010-02-26 at 03:25 AM.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Founding an Academy

    Quote Originally Posted by The Random NPC View Post
    In 3.5e, the DMGII has rules for running schools and businesses. I'm AFB right now so I can't give you a page number.
    Don't use those rules. They're b0rked beyond belief and make Adam Smith cry.

    I'm informed that the best way to garner piles of cash using those rules is to continually reinvest in your backwater general store until Djinn and epic wizards are teleporting in to shop there.

    2E had better investment rules (Birthright and Al Qadim).
    Heck, even OD&D had better (Judges Guild Ready Reference Sheets).

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Founding an Academy

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmerask View Post
    Yes I do give my players knowledge ranks for reading certain books, not always though only when the situation calls for it.

    Sometimes even doing things gives them skills and or makes a skill a class skill.
    For example my players undertook a voyage by sea and one player helped out as a seaman so he got knowledge nautics 2 ranks, he was quite happy about that
    Libraries give circumstance bonuses on knowledge checks based on the book slots available according to Stronghold Builders Guide. They give different bonuses depending on how comprehensive the libraries are. The bonuses range from +1 to +6 but it would presumably require some time to make the check referencing all the books.

    Books can also provide in-game knowledge according to the DM independent of the bonuses provided.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Founding an Academy

    Would it be a thread hijack if brought up a similar idea to that of the OP?

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Founding an Academy

    Quote Originally Posted by Noedig View Post
    Would it be a thread hijack if brought up a similar idea to that of the OP?
    Not at all, not in this case at least. I'm interested in as many opinios as possible, and the thing about Libraries is actually a thing i have been investigating myself, so it is good advice.

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    Default Re: Founding an Academy

    Taking two Feats basically gives you an acadamy.

    Landlord gives you a lump-sum of "virtual money" that can only be spent on building yourstronghold. It also matches any amount of real cash you choose to invest in the building.

    Leadership gives you the core of your inhabitants and a sort of deputy headmaster if you need to leave your Cohort behind.

    You can then take the Master/Apprentice Feats if you wish.
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