New TO build idea, need help

[Heliomance]

I've had an idea for an amusing TO build, but I could do with a hand on a couple of points.

-What ways are there to gain Divine Rank 1? I know Punpun manages it, but I can't remember how and I'm not sure if it's doable without being Punpun

-What early entry shenanigans are there for bypassing spellcasting requirements?

[Douglas]

Pun-pun gets a divine rank by making an Ice Assassin of a god and having the Ice Assassin make him a proxy, transferring one of its divine ranks to him. Any character who can get around the requirement to have a body part of the god as a material component can pull it off. Technically by RAW, the Eschew Materials feat might be sufficient. Pun-pun does it by having Ice Assassin as a spell-like ability.

[magic9mushroom]

I've had an idea for an amusing TO build, but I could do with a hand on a couple of points.

-What ways are there to gain Divine Rank 1? I know Punpun manages it, but I can't remember how and I'm not sure if it's doable without being Punpun

-What early entry shenanigans are there for bypassing spellcasting requirements?

Pun-Pun does it by the extremely cheesy schtick of Ice Assassinating a god and having it make him a proxy.

Really, Ice Assassin is a badly thought out spell.

As for the spellcasting requirements, Sanctum Spell and Earth Spell are good for Xth level spells, as is Versatile Spellcaster/Heighten Spell.

[BobVosh]

What level? Also how is your charisma? A high enough preform or diplomancy can make people worship you. Get enough and BOOM! DR 1. This could take a very long time though. DR 0 is easy. DR 1 takes forever.

[magic9mushroom]

What level? Also how is your charisma? A high enough preform or diplomancy can make people worship you. Get enough and BOOM! DR 1. This could take a very long time though. DR 0 is easy. DR 1 takes forever.

Nope. That's DM fiat only. There's no rule saying it works that way.

[imperialspectre]

Ice Assassin can also be accessed via Archmage + Thought Bottle. You spend a huge amount of XP, but then touch the Thought Bottle and have it all restored.

You can get the 9th-level spellcasting for Ice Assassin more easily if you start with the sandwich trick and Beholder Mage.

[magic9mushroom]

Ice Assassin can also be accessed via Archmage + Thought Bottle. You spend a huge amount of XP, but then touch the Thought Bottle and have it all restored.

You can get the 9th-level spellcasting for Ice Assassin more easily if you start with the sandwich trick and Beholder Mage.

Thought Bottles are stupendous hax.

Beholder Mage is also stupendous hax.

I mean, they're not quite as bad as Pun-Pun, but seriously.

[Sinfire Titan]

IIRC, you don't even need Ice Assassin to gain Deity status. Just use Manipulate Form to gain Divine Ranks.

[Doc Roc]

You want divine ranks, you get stupendous hax. Causation, not correlation.

[imperialspectre]

You can also use the controlled wight + Restoration hack to reset your levels to get PrC levels faster. In the above case, it would look something like Psion 1/Beholder Mage 1/Cerebremancer 8 for 9th-level arcane casting at ECL 10. You'll want extra class levels after your ascension, of course, since having more caster levels lets you get more divine hax.

Edit: Yes, this allows Ur-Priest 1/PsyTheurge 9 for the last 10 levels, giving you triple 9s on top of your DR 1.

[magic9mushroom]

IIRC, you don't even need Ice Assassin to gain Deity status. Just use Manipulate Form to gain Divine Ranks.

You can't do that. They're not an Extraordinary, Supernatural, or Spell-like Ability. They're Divine.

[Sinfire Titan]

You can't do that. They're not an Extraordinary, Supernatural, or Spell-like Ability. They're Divine.

Except that Manipulate Form can make up new abilities. As in, "Ex: This create is immune to Hit Point damage".

[magic9mushroom]

Except that Manipulate Form can make up new abilities. As in, "Ex: This create is immune to Hit Point damage".

I know. But one would assume that divine ranks are not a legal (Ex), (Su), or (Sp) ability.

[Fortuna]

Teh Ubears (Ex): The creature gains one divine rank per round.

[tyckspoon]

I know. But one would assume that divine ranks are not a legal (Ex), (Su), or (Sp) ability.

If you grant the ability to create new abilities from whole text, then it's a simple matter for Pun-Pun to give himself (Ex): Pun-Pun increases his Divine Rank by one. Doesn't make a difference what you classify the Divine Rank itself as.

[magic9mushroom]

If you grant the ability to create new abilities from whole text, then it's a simple matter for Pun-Pun to give himself (Ex): Pun-Pun increases his Divine Rank by one. Doesn't make a difference what you classify the Divine Rank itself as.

That contradicts the definition of an (Ex) ability.

[tyckspoon]

That contradicts the definition of an (Ex) ability.

No, it doesn't, and it's pointless nitpicking. Make it (Su) if it satisfies your sense of propriety, it doesn't change the end result. Just makes it so Pun-Pun can't grant himself additional divine ranks while standing in an AMF.

[magic9mushroom]

No, it doesn't, and it's pointless nitpicking. Make it (Su) if it satisfies your sense of propriety, it doesn't change the end result. Just makes it so Pun-Pun can't grant himself additional divine ranks while standing in an AMF.

Divine ranks are not magical either. They are Divine.

Hence, common sense dictates that only Divine abilities can grant them.

[Flickerdart]

Manipulate Form is sort of the be-all end-all of TO, anyway. So are, come to think of it, divine ranks. With either one, everything's too easy, much like Tainted Scholar or Beholder Mage.

[tyckspoon]

Divine ranks are not magical either. They are Divine.

Hence, common sense dictates that only Divine abilities can grant them.

Man, common sense has nothing to do with TO. Divine Rank is mostly just a shortcut, anyway- even if I were to grant your claim that Manipulate Form cannot give DR directly, it can grant qualities and abilities sufficient to exactly replicate their benefits, as all of those benefits are stated in normal game terms. Just takes up a hell of a lot more space on a page than saying Divine Rank X.

[Heliomance]

Hmm, seems that my idea likely won't work without being high enough level that it can do everything forever anyway. Ho hum.

So there's no way to pick up Craft Artifact without tricks that let you do so much that you don't need it?

[magic9mushroom]

Hmm, seems that my idea likely won't work without being high enough level that it can do everything forever anyway. Ho hum.

So there's no way to pick up Craft Artifact without tricks that let you do so much that you don't need it?

No, but you can pick up epic feats reasonably early via abuse of rules regarding dragons and the Dragonwrought feat. Which equally allows you to break the caps.

[Heliomance]

I was considering an Entropomancer who crafted his own spheres of annihilation and had them follow him around all the time. But if you can qualify for Craft Artifact, there's so much you can do that's at least as good as that and doesn't involve 10 levels in Entropomancer.

[9mm]

I was considering an Entropomancer who crafted his own spheres of annihilation and had them follow him around all the time. But if you can qualify for Craft Artifact, there's so much you can do that's at least as good as that and doesn't involve 10 levels in Entropomancer.

yeah... they couldn't have chosen a worse prc for the iron-chef optimization chanllenge; there is so little to work with it's pathedic.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Years ago dungeoon magazine had a adventure called bazallions blacksphere where a wizard crafted an amulet that could channel energy from the negative material plane to make a sphere expand. He became a lich in order to fullfill the requirments.

It was a pretty cool adventure. His private canctem was a cube with relative multi directional gravity. Trying to convert him to 3rd ed was my first idea for iron chief but realized an improved version of a minor artifact would be too dm fiat. Can only be used by an undead entropomancer would have to be worth a big discount.

Sidenote:there really should be a artificer/wizard dual progression PrC.